old_crone

Since you already have a jewelry site (http://www.dreamgold.com/) listed in three dmoz jewelry categories http://dmoz.org/Shopping/Jewelry/Fine_Art/ http://dmoz.org/Shopping/Jewelry/Precious_Metals/ http://dmoz.org/Regional/North_America/United_States/Texas/Localities/H/Houston/Business_and_Economy/Shopping/Jewelry/ you may be pushing your luck a bit. Especially since the Dream Gold site is affiliated with ejewelry.com/jewelers-services.com.

Perhaps you can remove http://www.benden.com.my/ while working in that category? It's under development - no content on the site.

"The ODP must be getting paid to keep the little guy off of their site, they must be getting paid by large corperations and companies to have their site listed higher up submitted faster, accepted faster etc." Do you really think comments like this will get you the help you want? If you are moving everything from the geocities site to the 4arcade site, then shut it down and point the user to the new URL. Then you can submit a legit URL change. Simple.

Is this site appropriate for the Kids & Teens category? Almost every game I looked at has a banner ad for online gambling.

Dang! How many windows have to open before you actually get to the sheet music? Sheesh! Most editors will give up after two or three, good luck.

Re: help if possible This was an entertaining thread, not to mention informative. It seems you have an extraordinary spam sniffing ability, just_browsing. Must be all that browsing you do. /images/icons/wink.gif A side note: If you allowed private messages to be sent, I'd thank you for the one you sent me. /images/icons/smile.gif old crone

Sorry, but I really can't help you. I'm not an editor at the ODP. As I said, it's only a guess, the editor who removed it is the only one that can answer for his/her decision to remove your site. You might want to try getting advice from the Submissions forum about which site is appropriate (according to the ODP) to list.

This is only a guess but your site may have been removed because the main company is http://www.andreaabbott.com/ and probably should have been submitted instead of http://facegum.com/.

Todd, if you want some help with your site, leave me a private message. I'm not an ODP editor but I do understand the guidelines for getting listed and I've developed and managed several business Web sites. Your site just needs a little tweaking, then it will be good to go!

well, gee, guess I was wrong about ettore not admitting to being an SEO. Maybe the SEO's who hide, have something to hide.

Ummm, I don't think ettore admitted to being an SEO, he was just referring to what other's have used in talking about SEO's. At least, that's my take on his message.

"However Pastedits does raise a valid point about the number of editors who are "corrupting" the system. Would anyone like to hazard a guess as to what percentage of editors that might be?" Do you have an educated quess?

Actually, I have submitted two sites to dmoz. Both were accepted in less than two weeks. I do not edit for dmoz, nor am I a SEO. However, I know how to write a title and description without the hype and what category to submit too. Both sites were unique in content and neither were riddled with affiliate links or referral links. Both are business sites - meaning they are selling something, one a service, the other a product, their own product, not someone else's. But maybe I was lucky, don't know for sure. All I really know is that all the optimization/placement/ranking/spamming techniques are temporary successes at best. Without content the site will fail eventually. The end user isn't as stupid as many would like to think. Just my 2 cents on this one issue.

It is nice when you get a submission that doesn't have to be edited. It's rare, so rare that it's hard to believe what you are reading! ;/images/dmoz/purplegrin.gif I am aware that most webmasters use their meta description when adding their site to directories. While they are okay for search engines, not many directories accept them simply because of the hype. It's really too bad webmasters don't do a little more research before trying to submit their sites. Even if they don't want to take the time to read the guidelines, there is a lot of info on the net for webmasters that covers what the ODP expects, as well as the other people powered directories. It really is too much for webmasters to expect the editors to do their job for them, especially when the editor has far less to gain, other than the feeling one gets for doing a good job. You're a new editor, I hope you continue to enjoy the work and don't get too stilted by all the garbage. The end users will appreciate the effort, especially as the web grows.

Oh, a question - is your site affiliated with http://www.gadzillo.com/?

"It is possible that I've been doing something wrong here, but when editors notice this, is it really that hard to send a mail explaining what I did wrong ?" Is it really that hard for webmasters to read the guidelines before submitting their sites? Why would anyone expect the editors to send out hundreds of emails explaining what is already in the guidelines? If webmaster don't care enough to read and follow the guidelines, why should the editors care if the webmasters are notified? Not to mention that the editor reviews hundreds of submissions while the webmaster has only one site to write a description for. Sorry guys and gals, couldn't resist this one! old cranky crone

Okay, I'll concede to many companies using other companies to ship their products but that doesn't change the fact that they have an affiliation with the companies. So, tell me, do those sites have unique content? Your site was singled out because you had three site that looked similar and appeared to sell similar products. That's a red flag for most editors. At least, that's what grabbed my attention. I also realize that this is a mistake new webmasters make, maybe because they have gotten bad advice, or because they just didn't know that it could look like spam. The single most problematic thing on the net is spam and it's growing by leaps and bounds! Just for the record, I see no problem with the layout of your site, in fact, it's better than most. The redirect to a shopping cart is not a problem either. The three submissions, the user name and password, the authorization number were all red flags. But I did learn something from all of this. I learned that my perception has become stilted with my experience of spammers and affiliate webmasters willing to do anything needed to get a listing. I automatically assume the worst instead of assuming the best. This will, in the future, help me to become a more understanding editor and remember to walk a bit more softly. I apologize for the role I played in making you feel like you had to jump through hoops in order to get your site approved. I stand behind the advice I offered you, it is good advice. What the editors on the ODP do with your submission is up to them. Peace

"That is not a good definition of affiliate. By that definition, since Amazon, Barnes and Noble and other book sites would sell the same books from the same publishers, then they all would be affiliates. Which they are not. By that definition, if target.com and walmart.com carry Eureka vacuum cleaners and Eureka has a site, then WalMart and Target would be affiliates, which they are not. " There's one big flaw in your argument. All the businesses you listed sell, handle, and ship the products. All but amazon have physical stores and amazon was the first to do what it does, thereby making it unique by definition. The others merely have website to support their physical locations and of course, take advantage of the net. They already have a targeted audience, no need for them to vie for placement anywhere! "The generally accepted definition of an affiliate site is one which does not sell the product, but rather promtotes the product of another site in exchange for a commission for a sale, lead or click." That is not my definition, nor is it the definition of the company I work for. "Maybe. But it's like saying there is limited room for companies on the net and it's either or. People who shop online don't look for "different" sites. They don't go to widgets.com and say, wow, that's not different, I will go to "gadgets.com." They don't search and search and search and search until they find a site that is different." No, I'm not saying there is a limited amount of room on the net for any one product or the many sites that sell them. What I am saying is if you want an edge over your growing competition, then you had better find a way to offer something different than all the rest. You are absolutely right, people don't go out and search for something different. That job is for the people powered directories so they can give their users something different. Otherwise, there would be no point in having one, would there? There would be no reason for google to use the ODP, absolutely none! Your only concern is to get a better page ranking on google so that people will find you in the top 20 or so. I'm saying that the best way to do that and to stay in the top 20 is to offer something unique along with your common products. You may not like my advice and you certainly don't have to follow it but I can promise you that your competition will only increase and your listing potential will decrease. Think content, content, content! The ODP's only concern is to offer quality sites with unique content. The only way they can achieve that goal is to weed out redundant sites. I'm done with this tread. I've said what I needed to say and now I'm becoming redundant. I completely understand your point of view as a webmaster trying to have an online business. But I also understand the situation from a directories point of view. You can make your own choice as to what to do with your site and so can the ODP. The two do not have to meet. Besides, you may very well be listed on the ODP. I am no threat to that possibility.

Re: nalasgallery.com & "grey unreviewed queue" sabre23t, I am a very good editor, just not an editor for the ODP. I'm also in favor of all editors form all people powered directories offering information when possible. We have far more incommon than not and there's always someone who knows more than I do. If I'm not open to giving what I know, how will I know more? The many post I've read on this forum has giving me food for thought, what more can one ask for? /images/icons/smile.gif

"And again, yes I have received feedback, but I would not change my linking, change my product ID numbers, change my return policy AND change my remote hosted shopping carts just to meet the *possible* approval of an ODP editor. " I'm afraid that's exactly what you will have to do, eventually, if you want to compete with all those thousands of other sites selling the same products as you. Your competition is only going to grow. Content is everything on the net and if yours isn't different, it will be passed over in favor of a site that is different. Just something to give some focused thought to.

"With the use of drop-shipping, direct fulfillment and buying from the manufacturer, etc. there will be dozens or even hundreds of sites with the same stock numbers, that does not make any of them affiliates to some master site. Look at the lingerie sites, nearly all get their inventory from the same place and nearly all use the same stock numbers, doesn't make them affiliates." The above statement just proves that webmasters do not understand the definition of an affiliate. The keywords are "there will be dozens or even hundreds of sites with the same stock numbers" meaning they are affiliated with the company who manufactures and ships the products, thus they are affiliates. But let's say they aren't, just for the sake of argument. Why would a directory want to list and send their end users to hundreds, even thousands of sites with the same product? Unless of course, there is unique content on each of those sites. And having unique content is subjective and depends on the reviewing editor's definition of unique. This kind of affiliate does complicate the issue. Which sites get listed and which ones don't, or should all of them be listed? "I don't even understand why my return policy even comes up for question. I want customers to contact me for a return authorization (as do many sites) so that I can be prepared for what merchandise is being returned" Is it so you can be prepared or so you will know what products are being returned because it's not being returned to you? "All these sites have not been submitted to yahoo yet (budget constraints), but again, 995artprints.com got in without a hitch just as you see it now, with all the cross links and such." Of course it did, and you pay for the privilege yearly. If the ODP charged for listings they would not have the backlog they currently have. You truly have no clue as to what the editors have to contend with on a daily basis - without any pay for doing it! Spend a few months editing for a directory (be sure it's a shopping/travel/marketing category and you'll have a small idea of what editors have to contend with and why they suspect every submission to those categories as being an affiliate of something! Believe me, it would be much easier to just accept them all but then the directory would be useless. It would be no different than a search engine. And, there is one other thing you need to know - the ODP is not here to serve webmasters, it's here to serve the end user. If you want to be listed here, then ask yourself, how do my sites serve potential customers and do I offer them something that others don't offer? Or, are my sites just clones of hundreds, even thousands of others? But, being listed on the ODP is not going to make you a wallet full of money, right? So, no biggy if your sites aren't listed, right? But don't loose hope, they may still be listed and I may just be full of s**t. Oh, I never meant for you to feel singled out. All my references about the lengths affiliates will go to in order to get their sites listed, were about affiliates in general, not to you personally. I'm sorry if you have felt offended by all of this. We're just a bunch of overworked and unappreciated editors blowing steam. Plus, I'm no one for you to worry about, I'm just an opinionated old crone.

"Which provokes (again) the question as to whether editors should arbitrarily reject sites that have the appearance of being affiliates, and spend their time editing more promising material." I say delete, delete, delete! Let the webmasters prove they are not an affiliate/mirror/doorway or anything remotely similar instead of the editors having to prove they are! But, that would probably bring editor abuse to the forefront of these discussions. It's a loosing battle and no big surprise that affiliates get through.

sabre23t I was only referring to nalashome.com. If you try to order an item you will have to get a user name and password. You didn't look deep enough. https://ssl.zoovy.com/nalacompany/c=oJZSpDcX072vdRhUjxjrhkj83/checkout.cgis Weeding out affiliates is the single most time suck for editors. It's not unusual for affiliates to get through many editors simply because it's soooooo time consuming and many editors do not know what to look for. It's too bad they have to spend their time being a cyber-snoop instead of editing good submissions. It cost everyone in the long run. When it comes to their pocket book, there isn't much an affiliate webmaster won't do to get his/her site listed. They have little or no regard for anyone else and its not going to get better as the net evolves. Again, just my 2 cents, well, maybe 4 cents this time. :/images/dmoz/purplegrin.gif

It may not be a mirror but the gallery is listed in nalashome.com which appears to be the main site and it has also been submitted. If I had the accept and/or delete power, I'd consider accepting nalashome.com and delete the other two, though I suspect it's an affiliate of something. Any shopping site that requires a user name and password is suspect in my not so humble opinion. And why do "All returns require an authorization number" that the customer has to request via email? If this site is the seller, collects the money, and ships the product, why would the customer need an authorization number for returns? But, that's just my 2 cents, which is about all it's worth.

Re: Luxury Hotels submission problem. I'm not an editor on the ODP, nor am I a competitor to the site in question. I do edit for another directory and have info on this site and thought I'd pass it on. The http://www.cremedelacreme-hotels.com/ and the http://www.luxury-hotel-reviews.co.uk/ both use http://www.ase.net/ which uses http://www.placestostay.com/ which is a part of http://www.worldres.com/ as their online reservation server. How much original content this site has is subjective. An ODP editor will have to make that determination.