dstanovic

Hmmm....... two votes for and two votes against .... I vote again now it's three against two <img src="/images/icons/shocked.gif" alt="" />

Jim, I agree <img src="/images/icons/laugh.gif" alt="" /> I may of painted the picture of editing a little too drab. <img src="/images/icons/crazy.gif" alt="" /> I thoroughly enjoy editing, the distant relationships, and camaraderie that is shared between editors. I certainly don’t want people to think it is an arduous “job” with no rewards – there are rewards but they come from within oneself and are not tangible benefits (at least that's what I was/am trying to get across) <img src="/images/icons/cool.gif" alt="" /> Dave

Not to put these good people through any more work than they already have but I second that motion <img src="/images/icons/shocked.gif" alt="" /> <<Edit: And can we change the date format? To like d/m/y instead of y/m/d>> Dave

Agreed, but that is usually (not always) caught before they do too much damage <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" alt="" /> I wouldn't touch any sites that I am affiliated with a 10-foot pole as you are just asking for trouble <img src="/images/icons/blush.gif" alt="" /> Dave

driftwood, I am only continuing this conversation/thread in hopes that other submitters are reading this and will understand both sides. I am not saying you do not make valid points - I am saying you do not fully understand. I can say that I spend anywhere from two-eight hours per day doing actual editing and listing sites. I have a "real" business to run, family, and children. I caught the flu bug or something the last couple of days and have not done a whole lot of actual editing – listing/moving maybe 40-50 sites. When I go into a category I first delete all duplicate submissions, updates that are not warranted, and move non-working/dead urls into my private bookmarks to check later. I have a broadband internet connection and on a category that has 800 –1000 or more unreviewed it can literally take minutes just to bring up the edit screen of unreviewed sites. I cannot imagine what some editors go through with a simple dial-up connection. I have heard it is a real plus to have a broadband connection as many times the dial-ups time-out before bringing up the screen. I sort the sites by date and then will copy all of the unreviewed sites from the screen including titles and descriptions and paste into a document for editing. This is much easier for me to open the sites from the document and rewrite the changes to urls, titles, descriptions, and editor notes. I complete 10-20 listings and then go in and list them by copying and pasting the info. One site can take two minutes and the next may take ½-hour investigating something that doesn’t seem quite right. So the time it takes for one site may mean that 15 others may have been able to get their sites listed in the time spent on one. Do I like it – No, but I will not delete a site because it is taking up time and I won’t just click through and list it because it’s too much of a bother to take the time required to treat it properly. You also have to remember we do not “judge” sites on their design or quality – it is listed based upon the value of the information contained. If you had to wade through some of these sites that have 3-minute Flash presentations with “no” skip-intro link you would know what I mean. Chances are a person with a dial-up connection will never see their contact information as it would take 10-15 minutes just to get to it. Do I delete the site – No. It is not a glory filled position being an editor as there are no benefits at all being an editor. I think that is why many editors leave or the Metas do not approve as many as you think they should. No, dmoz/odp or the editors are not perfect and neither are the submitters that send their sites to be listed. I don’t hold it against the submitters so please don’t hold it against us <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" alt="" /> Dave Added: Just wanted to add that I had a lot more ideas/solutions when I was on the other side of the fence like you are – I had not a clue when I hopped the fence <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" alt="" /> If it wasn’t for the great Mentor that I had/have I would probably still be clueless.

<<I would be happy to do this simple task and the guildlines would be simple to follow. So why not give people who want to help that role instead of refusing editors.>> This is actually not a simple task <img src="/images/icons/confused.gif" alt="" /> It took me over 1-1/2 hours on one site that did not look spammy at all. Turns out they had 15 domains for the same site/company/services and 10 were exact mirrors of the submitted site. It took a lot of research and then I emailed a senior editor to tag each of the mirrored sites. Think about how much time that took between the two of us <img src="/images/icons/frown.gif" alt="" /> Also, you cannot just go in and start deleting submissions - you need to make notes and explain why they are being deleted being sure you’re not deleting eligible sites. Cleaning up duplicate submissions does not take much time <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" alt="" /> If you read my posts in this forum before I became an editor you will see that "I too" made the assumption that "it doesn't have to be this hard" and I questioned a lot of decisions of the editors. Once you see it from this side you begin to see why things are done the way they are. Believe-it-or-not they have a great system of checks and balances put into place for very good reasons <img src="/images/icons/laugh.gif" alt="" /> I know this does not help you or your sites in any way – I just hope it gives you some insight on how things really work, and not just how they seem. Dave Question/Comments: Why is it so difficult to become an editor? They don’t really want editors it’s a closed Club. Why do sites take so long to list? Flip Side Comments: Look what this editor did! Look at the description on this site! This company has 4 listings! This affiliate site is included, why isn’t mine! This editor listed their affiliated sites and destroyed the other listings! This person shouldn’t be an editor! It’s a no-win situation between submitters and editors unless the submitter begins to have an understanding that when chances are taken on new editors – there is often times repercussions to this decision.

Mel, I just took a look at the category and agree that many of the titles are not conforming to the guidelines <img src="/images/icons/frown.gif" alt="" /> I do not edit in that area so I cannot go in and clean them up. Titles should be the name of the company/business, not the title of the page. Maybe one of the editors will wander by and read this or a senior editor will take a look and have one of the three editors listed clean-up the titles. The category is http://dmoz.org/Computers/Internet/Web_Design_and_Development/Promotion/Help_and_Tutorials/ Dave

<< DMOZ is more of a club then a DIR and for most part apllication and submissions depend on just how the reviewers are feeling on the day. >> Totally untrue in my opinion. First I would never apply in a category that contained my site or my site was waiting in – it is allowed, but personally I would not, especially right off the bat. I applied for a small category I had interest in – wanting to help others get their sites into the directory – not to get my sites in (already listed). The reviewers take every application seriously and that is a very large responsibility. Have you ever helped someone get hired at a position just to have them screw up? <<. I understand quailty is important but looking at the jobs already done by existing editors I think this is used more of an excuse then a reason.>> The keyword is "existing" – do you know for a fact that the editor that made a mess out of the category still exists as an editor? This could very well be the mess left behind by an editor that was granted privileges and abused them by listing their site(s) and destroying the others. One editor can do a lot of good or do a lot of damage that could take months to years to clean-up after. << If this is such a probelm why not have a system where more (a lot more) people are accepted but for the first month their edits are checked before they go live. >> There already is such a system in place (Greenbusting privileges). It allows editors that would not otherwise be eligible for editing in the category to list "unreviewed" sites. These are checked by a senior before going "public". These are my "opinions" on the matter. It is not impossible or I wouldn’t be editor <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" alt="" /> Dave

<<It's not as if the form is simple and if you make a mistake you lose all you entered the first time.>> Tip: Always keep all the info in a document or text file. This way you can not only spell-check your application information, but you have a copy of it as well. <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" alt="" />

old_crone, They seemed to have changed the need to open port 7869 so you can change back your settings <img src="/images/icons/grin.gif" alt="" /> Thanks Guys for doing this <img src="/images/icons/cool.gif" alt="" />

Agreed and I'm sure they are working on it <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" alt="" /> I was able to get my router back up by allowing their IP and port through. Still have to keep it open on ZoneAlarm of course but I always feel safer behind the "hardware" <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" alt="" /> P.S. I forgot how many port scans etc takes place without the router blocking. I was getting hammered and Zone Alarm built up quite a log in such a few short hours. <img src="/images/icons/frown.gif" alt="" /> Dave

Uhgg! I had to turn off my routers firewall and open the TCP port required in ZoneAlarm Pro. Hopefully they will come up with a solution. <img src="/images/icons/grin.gif" alt="" />

Old Crone, Are you behind a firewall (router/software)? Dave

Yes, the site does qualify for both Designers categories. I see your site is listed in http://dmoz.org/Computers/Internet/Web_Design_and_Development/Designers/Full_Service/S/ Dave

I am going to post in the editor forum if that's OK with my IP <img src="/images/icons/grin.gif" alt="" /> This is not the problem though as you will see by the traceroute and ping times. It literally takes minutes from the time I click "Enter Forum" from the home page. I have deleted the three cookies that your site sets and cleared cache. Even tried from my desktop which I have never used to enter the forum - same problem. I will post the results in the editor forum - give me about 5-minutes to get there <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" alt="" /> Dave {Edited} Here is a link to the posted info: http://www.resource-zone.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=tes2&Number=6108&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1

Here are my times to get to where I am (posting this message): From Login to “My home”: Generated in 189.328 seconds. 12 queries. Zlib compression disabled. To Main: Generated in 190.095 seconds. 19 queries. Zlib compression disabled. To Members Lounge: Generated in 189.921 seconds. 12 queries. Zlib compression disabled. As you can see it took me about ten minutes <img src="/images/icons/frown.gif" alt="" /> Everything including editing is very fast today so I am sure it's not on my end. I am using IE6.x but also tried using Opera 6.x and not logging in - still unusable. I am sure it will all work out and it looks great (nice options) from what I have been able to see. I'll check back tonight or so. Good Job, Dave P.S. Posting/previewing messages is lightning fast.

donaldb wrote "Not sure if it's just me, but pages are taking forever to load." It is taking a very, very, long time to load here with a broadband connection. I thought it was down but it was and still is taking forever to load a page <img src="/images/icons/confused.gif" alt="" />

<<it's under 2300 now,>> /images/icons/wink.gif I spent way over an hour yesterday on one site/listing in unreviewed. Does 10 mirrors and 15 domains for the same company/business set a new record of any kind? I sent all the info to donaldb for appropriate action /images/icons/smile.gif It's these type of sites that take up all of my time - think of how many "unreviewed" could have been "reviewed" in this time /images/icons/frown.gif I have this particular category down to 522 unreviewed - with over 11,000 unreviewed in the topical category /images/icons/frown.gif I think we need some serious help! Dave P.S. I'm off for a short vacation for a couple of days so I won't be think of this - I hope /images/icons/smile.gif

hutcheson - 3000 unreviewed ..Uhg!!!! I am finding it next to impossible to bring up a category with about 550. When I do get a edit screen and "update" I have been getting server errors. Categories with one site in unreviewed still take me at least a full minute to update/publish /images/icons/frown.gif (This is with a broadband connection – which right now is useless for editing. May as well be 14.4 modem)

poppyseed, Well a lot of things have changed since my last message /images/icons/smile.gif I have been an editor for the past 5 weeks or so and believe-it-or-not I am now helping out by trying to get the sites listed since the re-org. Take Care, Dave

Please see http://www.resource-zone.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=tes2&Number=5375&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=0&fpart= You are still an editor if your public profile shows up /images/icons/smile.gif

From one Dave to another you may want to list your profile in your sig as http://dmoz.org/profiles/davo3.html so others can see it besides editors /images/icons/smile.gif

<<Looksmart had no trouble giving me a free listing in a same category over there and they are run by professional paid editors.>> Another Uhgg! Just because a site is listed elsewhere does not guarantee a listing in dmoz. As an editor do you expect special treatment? If your site was reviewed and rejected - accept it and move on. I will not comment further on this subject and suggest reading the guidelines that state "We care a great deal about the quality of the ODP. We aren't a search engine and pride ourselves on being highly selective. We don't accept all sites, so please don't take it personally should your site not be accepted. Our goal is to make the directory as useful as possible for our users, not to have the directory include all (or even most) of the sites that could possibly be listed or serve as a promotional tool for the entities listed." The above quote can be found at http://dmoz.org/add.html . My 4-cents and last on this subject (don't take it personally), Dave

Archbob, <<If they are listed, why can't I be?>> Uhgg!!! If you are an editor you know that is the poorest reason for listing a site that there is. Just because a category might be in bad shape - there's no sense in making it worse. My 2-cents

<<Isn't there a way to go back and choose a new user name WITHOUT having to once again fill in the entire form??? >> No /images/icons/frown.gif Best to type all of your application data into a document and then copy and paste into the application form. If anything goes wrong with submitting the form you can easily re-apply. Dave P.S. Your information should "not" have been lost when choosing your browsers back button.