502 Proxy Error (Editor Feedback form)

Dear Sir or Madam,

The Editor Feedback form on the .dmoz website does not appear to work and results in the following error message:-

"Proxy Error

The proxy server received an invalid response from an upstream server.
The proxy server could not handle the request POST /cgi-bin/send2.cgi.

Reason: Error reading from remote server"

Just thought I would let somebody know, on the off chance that something is wrong with the server settings rather than my system.

Kind regards

Terry

This is a well known issue and many people have already written about it.

Just to add that, despite the error report, messages usually get through OK.

Please note that, whilst editors can act on any information given if they wish, we discourage them from replying because the ensuing conversations end badly all too often.

Then somebody maibe site admin, please repair this error or take out from site the editor contact,to avoid this discussions.

Neither option is within the permissions range of any of the volunteer editors who post here. So, I'm afraid we'll all just have to keep being patient.

motsa said:

Neither option is within the permissions range of any of the volunteer editors who post here. So, I'm afraid we'll all just have to keep being patient.

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I'm getting this error as well. Of course, with no indication that the message was delivered, I tried again, then once more with a different browser. If the messages are indeed being delivered despite the error, that means the editor I tried to contact will have multiple duplicate messages from me in his inbox, which he will no doubt find annoying. Given statements on his profile page, this could lead to my site submission being rejected permanently.

I'm sorry, but this is unacceptable. Disable the feedback feature, add a warning about the proxy error message or fix the problem. If you can't fix the problem, please inform someone who can.

Thanks.

If you can't fix the problem, please inform someone who can.

Click to expand...

If you read the thread, you'll see that we can't and that we've already informed the folks who have the permissions to do so (AOL ops staff).There's usually no need to contact editors anyway.

Jeff Rivett said:

Given statements on his profile page, this could lead to my site submission being rejected permanently.

Click to expand...

Sending emails to an editor is not a reason not to include a website.

jimnoble said:

If you read the thread, you'll see that we can't and that we've already informed the folks who have the permissions to do so (AOL ops staff).There's usually no need to contact editors anyway.

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Yes, I understood that the people responsible have been informed. But since the problem has not been resolved, I can only assume that the information provided to them was incomplete, or they simply decided not to fix the problem. There are further troubling aspects to this issue - in my searches, I found the following:

[1] People have been reporting this problem for years.

[2] In at least one case, the problem was reportedly found and fixed (it was a DNS configuration issue). Either there's more than one problem, or the problem has resurfaced, because it's still happening for me.

[3] The problem may or may not be related to client side proxies. I'm perfectly willing to accept that the problem may be on my end, but without knowing what to look at to resolve it, there's not much I can do other than complain on these forums. I should point out that I use the web constantly and have never seen this kind of error when doing a simple form submission.

Some definitive information on this, somewhere in the DMOZ site help, would obviously be helpful. For instance, a basic troubleshooting guide, along the lines of "I get proxy errors when I try to use the DMOZ contact system" with some information about possible causes and solutions, would be ideal.

Regardless, since the primary method for contacting DMOZ admins is broken, even if it's only for some users, clearly something else needs to be done.

I suspect that this sort of issue, the lack of any kind of feedback to submitters, along with the "maybe I'll get to it this decade" attitude of editors explain the steady decline of the relevance of DMOZ on the web. Google Trends shows a steady decline for DMOZ from 2004 onward.

pvgool said:

Sending emails to an editor is not a reason not to include a website.

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Would that this were true, at least for all DMOZ editors. This is from the profile of the editor in question:

<quote removed>

Thanks for passing that on to us. I've contacted the editor in question to have them update their profile. (I've removed the quote from your post because it essentially identifies the editor in question, and we don't permit specific editor discussions here.)

Either there's more than one problem...

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Correct. There are multiple causes, some that are temporary in nature and others that aren't. The issue with the feedback form in particular is persistent and ongoing...and completely out of our (editors') hands.

Some definitive information on this, somewhere in the DMOZ site help, would obviously be helpful. For instance, a basic troubleshooting guide, along the lines of "I get proxy errors when I try to use the DMOZ contact system" with some information about possible causes and solutions, would be ideal.

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We can't provide what we don't have. And we do not have access to update any of the documentation that is on dmoz.org.

Regardless, since the primary method for contacting DMOZ admins is broken, even if it's only for some users, clearly something else needs to be done.

Click to expand...

As was already noted before, we editors cannot do anything about the errors. As has also been noted before, there are few legitimate reasons for contacting an editor. After all, there's a form for suggesting your site, and a form for updating your site, and a system for reporting abuse or errors.

motsa said:

As was already noted before, we editors cannot do anything about the errors. As has also been noted before, there are few legitimate reasons for contacting an editor. After all, there's a form for suggesting your site, and a form for updating your site, and a system for reporting abuse or errors.

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Thanks for your response. I'm relieved to know that the attitude shown by that other editor is not actually acceptable.

So it's clear that the editors: a. can't fix this proxy issue; b. don't know much about it except that it's a problem; c. don't know what (if any) progress is being made on a fix; and d. don't have any control over the content on the main dmoz.org site. Okay, understood. So who do I contact about these things?

You mention a system for reporting errors. Would that include this proxy error? Would it include suggestions for help content on the dmoz.org site? And most importantly, where do I find it? I must have missed it in my travels through the web site; I was lucky enough to find the link to these public forums as they are somewhat buried.

Meanwhile, I've noticed that although I've set up this topic to be 'watched' - with instant emails to be delivered when anyone posts a response - I've yet to receive any of those emails. So that feature of the forums appears to be broken or misconfigured. Who do I talk to about that?

I'd also like to point out that as long as: a. editors typically should not be contacted about site submissions; b. even if you contact editors they likely won't reply; and c. site submissions can take months (if not years) to process, there is no way for a site submitter to know whether their submission was even received in the first place. The only recourse a site submitter has is to keep resubmitting their site over and over. I don't think anyone wants that. Just my two cents.

Jeff Rivett said:

So it's clear that the editors: a. can't fix this proxy issue; b. don't know much about it except that it's a problem; c. don't know what (if any) progress is being made on a fix; and d. don't have any control over the content on the main dmoz.org site.

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a. correct
b. correct
c. correct
d. editors control the directory, its structure and the listed websites ; AOl controls all the technical stuff

Okay, understood. So who do I contact about these things?

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Why? AOL is aware of the problem and will fix it when they have the time and have found what causes the problem. Emailing them won't speed up the process.

You mention a system for reporting errors. Would that include this proxy error? Would it include suggestions for help content on the dmoz.org site? And most importantly, where do I find it? I must have missed it in my travels through the web site; I was lucky enough to find the link to these public forums as they are somewhat buried.

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It depend what kind of error you want to report.
A websites that should not be listed in its current form. Suggest an update request on DMOZ or go to the Quality Control sevtion of this forum.
Technical errors. Let us know here on R-Z and we will tell AOL.
If you want to report abuse. At the top of each category on DMOZ there is a link "report abuse/spam".

Meanwhile, I've noticed that although I've set up this topic to be 'watched' - with instant emails to be delivered when anyone posts a response - I've yet to receive any of those emails. So that feature of the forums appears to be broken or misconfigured. Who do I talk to about that?

Click to expand...

You just did

I'd also like to point out that as long as: a. editors typically should not be contacted about site submissions; b. even if you contact editors they likely won't reply; and c. site submissions can take months (if not years) to process, there is no way for a site submitter to know whether their submission was even received in the first place. The only recourse a site submitter has is to keep resubmitting their site over and over. I don't think anyone wants that. Just my two cents.

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a. correct
b. correct
c. correct
conclusion : as wrong as can be
Why would you suggest a website over and over again. If it is not listed it is either still waiting review (if you suggest again you will overwrite the previous suggestion and could make the time between first suggestion and review longer) or it was rejected (suggesting it again is spam and could get you and all your websites blocked)

Seems that you think DMOZ is a service for webmaster to get their websites listed. Sorry to tell you but it isn't.

pvgool said:

AOL is aware of the problem and will fix it when they have the time and have found what causes the problem. Emailing them won't speed up the process.

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I disagree. Forcing the details of a technical problem to pass through the hands of a third party is bound to lead to missing or garbled information. My years doing technical support in various capacities have taught me that much. Further, we already know that this problem has been going on for a long time with no resolution in sight. From what I know about the technical issues involved, the resolution should not be particularly difficult. And yet it hasn't happened. That could mean any number of things, none of them good:
[1] AOL is ignoring the problem.
[2] AOL has forgotten about the problem.
[3] AOL doesn't think the problem is important enough to fix.
[4] AOL thinks it has already fixed the problem.
[5] AOL doesn't have the technical know-how to fix the problem.
[6] AOL doesn't have enough information to fix the problem.

All of these possibilities could be collapsed into one known reality if someone with the appropriate technical experience was allowed to communicate directly with the AOL technical support people. If it turns out that the problem is never going to be fixed, maybe it's time to write off DMOZ entirely, as many have already done.

pvgool said:

It depend what kind of error you want to report.
Technical errors. Let us know here on R-Z and we will tell AOL.

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See my response above. If I report the problem to you and nothing happens, what does that mean? What's the next step? With this arrangement, my ONLY option is to keep bugging you folks here in the public forums. Nobody wants that.

I've noticed that although I've set up this topic to be 'watched' - with instant emails to be delivered when anyone posts a response - I've yet to receive any of those emails. So that feature of the forums appears to be broken or misconfigured. Who do I talk to about that?

Click to expand...

You just did

Click to expand...

Does that mean you are working on the problem? Or just that you'll pass it on to AOL so that it can join the other problem in that particular black hole?

pvgool said:

conclusion : as wrong as can be
Why would you suggest a website over and over again. If it is not listed it is either still waiting review (if you suggest again you will overwrite the previous suggestion and could make the time between first suggestion and review longer) or it was rejected

Click to expand...

Okay, let's step back and review what we know, shall we? From the perspective of a web site submitter, once a site has been submitted, it goes into a mysterious black hole. The ONLY way to know that ANYTHING has happened with the submission is if it shows up in the DMOZ index, and that can take years. The submitter agonizes over this during the months after the submission. He wonders: Did I submit the site properly? Was there a technical issue with the submission form? (given the topic of this discussion, a valid concern.) Did some technical glitch occur after that? Did some human error occur in the process? Did it get lost in the shuffle? Did the topic editor die? Is he just sitting on a backlog of submissions? Was it rejected for some specific reason? If so, what was that reason? I know I could fix it if only I knew what the problem was! Was the site approved but somehow after that it got lost in the shuffle? Was there some other kind of technical glitch that caused it to get lost even after approval? And so on. The point is that if the site never appears in DMOZ, anyone who submits a site can only see a future of daily checking DMOZ and then sadly realizing that the site still isn't there. But maybe, just maybe, it will be there tomorrow.

pvgool said:

(suggesting it again is spam and could get you and all your websites blocked)

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You might want to compare notes with the admin motsa who replied in this thread earlier. I'm not sure your attitude about banning sites because of a possible technical problem on your end is appropriate or helpful.

pvgool said:

Seems that you think DMOZ is a service for webmaster to get their websites listed. Sorry to tell you but it isn't.

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I hardly know how to respond to that. Although it is difficult to know for sure, it seems clear enough that Google places a high value on DMOZ listings, and it's definitely the primary source for Google's own directory. Until we know otherwise, web developers must assume that getting a site listed on DMOZ is highly recommended, if they are interested in having the site ranked highly. So we submit our sites to DMOZ, because we worry that to ignore DMOZ is throwing away a valuable opportunity. But from what you said, it seems to me that you would be happier if nobody ever submitted sites to DMOZ and you were allowed to simply rely on your own judgment as an editor to identify relevant web sites and add them to the index. If that's the case, and if that's actually DMOZ policy (and I very much doubt that), you should disable the site submission mechanism completely.

All of these possibilities could be collapsed into one known reality if someone with the appropriate technical experience was allowed to communicate directly with the AOL technical support people.

Click to expand...

I guarantee you that a number of very technical editors have communicated with AOL about this issue. The situation does not need additional feedback from non-editors, no matter how technically-minded they are. AOL is aware of the nature and scope of the problem. I'm sure it's somewhere on their "to do" list, but I'd imagine it's fairly low since (a) the error doesn't prevent emails from getting through, and (B) the feature (i.e. ability for members of the public to email editors) is not really a high priority one.

Does that mean you are working on the problem? Or just that you'll pass it on to AOL so that it can join the other problem in that particular black hole?

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It means that, when a forum administrator decides to look at it, they will look at it. You've brought it to our attention, and that's all you can do.

You might want to compare notes with the admin motsa who replied in this thread earlier. I'm not sure your attitude about banning sites because of a possible technical problem on your end is appropriate or helpful.

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Actually, my comment was about contacting editors by e-mail. pvgool's response was about suggesting a site, something that doesn't require the ability to email an editor. Spamming the directory with submissions can, in egregious cases, result in the banning of the site. It takes a fair bit of work to reach egregious, though -- a couple of resubmissions won't do it.

motsa said:

AOL is aware of the nature and scope of the problem.

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Okay, I give up. But you could save everyone a lot of trouble if you posted a list of known issues in a prominent place in the forums, though. While we're at it, are there any other long-standing problems I should know about?

It means that, when a forum administrator decides to look at it, they will look at it. You've brought it to our attention, and that's all you can do.

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Since you put it that way, actually I do have other options:
[1] Post a series of articles on SEO and web developer sites on just how messed up DMOZ is. Provide detailed examples, including posts from these forums.
[2] Stop using DMOZ and recommend that others do the same.

Spamming the directory with submissions can, in egregious cases, result in the banning of the site. It takes a fair bit of work to reach egregious, though -- a couple of resubmissions won't do it.

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I'm glad to hear that, but pvgool's actual message was much more ominous.

While we're on the subject of pvgool, what do you think about his statement about DMOZ not being "a place for webmaster to get their websites listed"?

I notice that you didn't respond to my "plight of the site submitter" comments. I realize those comments were off-topic, but should I read anything else into that? Is there anything at all that submitters can do to avoid this agony? I mean besides giving up on DMOZ.

Since you put it that way, actually I do have other options:
[1] Post a series of articles on SEO and web developer sites on just how messed up DMOZ is. Provide detailed examples, including posts from these forums.
[2] Stop using DMOZ and recommend that others do the same.

Click to expand...

Not sure how that would help you here. This forum is not owned or run by AOL. So any issues here have nothing to do with any issues at dmoz.org.

While we're on the subject of pvgool, what do you think about his statement about DMOZ not being "a place for webmaster to get their websites listed"? I notice that you didn't respond to my "plight of the site submitter" comments. I realize those comments were off-topic, but should I read anything else into that? Is there anything at all that submitters can do to avoid this agony? I mean besides giving up on DMOZ.

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The only thing you can read into my lack of a response on any specific comment you made is that I didn't feel like writing a response. Nothing more ominous than that.

Jeff Rivett said:

I hardly know how to respond to that. Although it is difficult to know for sure, it seems clear enough that Google places a high value on DMOZ listings, and it's definitely the primary source for Google's own directory. Until we know otherwise, web developers must assume that getting a site listed on DMOZ is highly recommended, if they are interested in having the site ranked highly. So we submit our sites to DMOZ, because we worry that to ignore DMOZ is throwing away a valuable opportunity. But from what you said, it seems to me that you would be happier if nobody ever submitted sites to DMOZ and you were allowed to simply rely on your own judgment as an editor to identify relevant web sites and add them to the index. If that's the case, and if that's actually DMOZ policy (and I very much doubt that), you should disable the site submission mechanism completely.

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If your problem is that Google (in your opinion) places a high value on a DMOZ listing you should complain to Google.
BTW Google has stated several times that they do not put a high value on a DMOZ listing, they threat a link to a website on DMOZ exactly the same as they do threat a link on any other website.
Disabling the option to suggest websites to DMOZ has been discussed by editors more than once and until now the pros are higher than the cons and that is why we still accept suggestions. But each editor can decide on his own if he wants to look at those suggestions or not. Yes, editors are not forced to look at the suggestions. But most do look at them. In many categories suggestions are still a decent source to find new listings, there are a few categories in which the pool of suggested websites is not good source.
Editors have the "task" to build categories of interesting websites, they can find new listing in the pool of suggestions or they can go out and find websites themself using serach engines, other websites, newspapers, billboards, magazines. There are so many sources to find websites. We do not care where and how they find the websites to be listed. We also do not care how much time they spend. Might be 8 hours a day or only 1 hour every 4 onths. It is all fine.

...you were allowed to simply rely on your own judgment as an editor to identify relevant web sites and add them to the index

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Not allowed but encouraged. The listing suggestion pool is just one possible source of them.

Others have already said this but you might have missed it. We aren't a free listing service for website owners; we're hobbyist directory builders. There's a big difference .

If you can help get this message out to other forums (as you seemed to be threatening) you'd be doing us a great favour. In my experience though, and I've tried hard enough over the years, it falls on deaf ears.

I also encountered similar problems.

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