A year plus?...is this the USSR?

A year plus?

So I recently joined a company. Noticing that we're not in DMOZ, I submitted our site...but then learned from the owner that he'd done this over a year ago and then again 6 months ago. The name (and url) of our site is "Blinds.com". Kind of a 'category killer' that you'd think would be able to be listed alongside such esteemed sites as justanotherblindssite139xy.com. And I believe that we're the #1 seller of blinds on the net! But no such luck.

So now I'm wondering whether our category editor is also the owner of justanotherblindssite139xy.com

...sigh...if you sense some sarcasm, please don't count it against me, I am just frustrated and would like some advice!

Please understand!

Thanks,
dc

Ah, another wannabe-Stalin complaining about recalcitrant serfs -- not delivering pork according to the Five-Year Plan.

The first bit of advice, is, the ODP gives nothing to webmasters. Ever. Any benefit you might receive as a webmaster is an unfortunate and unpreventable side-effect of otherwise meritorious acts of public service.

You're like expecting the U.S.Postal Service to solve your rodent problem because the mail truck ran over a possum in front of your neighbor's house. And the mail comes every day, but your rats are still there.

With that in mind, your sarcasm is, um, misplaced. It makes you sound, if you'll allow me a smidgen of understatement, out of touch with reality. Nobody will allow you to tell editors "if you don't get with the pogrom, comrade, you're for it in the next purge."

I'd recommend introducing reality as at least a theoretical possibility in your worldview.

Consider these facts:

(1) We don't know, or care, how much business a site does. So there's no way we could take that into account if we wanted to.

(2) We don't know which are the best sites until we've reviewed all of them. So we don't review ALL sites then list just the best one, then review all the rest to review just the next best one, then review the others ... that would be insane. So it would be insane to expect us to have listed "only and all the best sites." Please get over that.

Reality is like this: we review a site (chosen for all practical purposes at random). It may be the best, it may be the worst website of any company in the whole business, it could be the smallest company in the business. We don't know, and it doesn't matter: if it's good enough, we list it. ("good enough" means it gives an answer to the question "who are you and what do you do for money?")

(3) There are lots of sites to review, and home accessory sales is perhaps not the most riveting of topics: so among the millions of listable sites as yet unreviewed are perhaps some dozens or hundreds of such sites -- of which, remember, we have no way of knowing which are largest, best, or most profitable.

There's no point in blaming Stalin for the law of gravity.

And, rather than wasting time with bad-taste cheap shots, you might well have asked yourself what is the true submission history? Not the two submission history that you related to us in this forum, but the real submission history? Note: the answer is at least twice what you stated.

And, in the midst of that introspection, you might ask yourself if it is fair to come in here and criticize the volunteers when, by nature of your site's submission history (referenced above), your company has clearly engaged in directory abuse.

And then, could you possible explain why the URL for a windows blinds company has been submitted, on at least two occasions, to subcategories of Arts/Animation/Anime? To this editor, at least, that type of submission constitutes willful abuse.

C'mon SG, dcdcdcdc says he has only just joined the company. The guy who made some of the earlier submissions must have been a different Daniel.

I guess it's also possible that his new colleagues forgot to mention the other related URLs.

Still, since we seem to be having a Stalinist day, I feel a bit of a purge coming on - as promised in our submission guidelines .

Whoa!

Guys, please...

I really did just join the company. There are >30 people in the company, at least 2 of whom are Daniels.

I have been told that we've tried to submit ourselved in the past, but I do not know whether there is a way for me to see our submission history you've referenced below. Is there? I don't know why we'd try to be in Arts/Animation/Anime but if that's true there's a good chance that was a mistake.

You need to understand that for most of out here, the way this directory works is a black box. And most of us are actually honest business owners/workers. All we have is frustration that a great website cannot be listed, with months/years (not sure how many times we've tried during that time, clearly I was wrong if you have records...though I doubt there was anything willful going on). From the look of the postings on this board, I'm not the only one who feels like this. And while the directory is designed for consumers, not "webmasters"...with power comes responsibility.

Please call me at xxx-xxx-xxx-xxxx if you have a chance. I'd like to speak with someone in person who can give me some advice. I feel that this message format (as opposed to phone) breeds an antagonism that isn't necessary. Clearly I started that with a the first message, and I'm sorry.

Daniel

Search Engine Placement without ODP

What you need to do is find other sources. Do not rely entirely in ODP placement, you could get high ranking in Google and other search engines by simply acquiring links directed to your site, that is what I did and my page ranks within the first 10 in our most targeted key words.
By not posting sarcastic and irrelevant questions in this forum will allow the editors to have more time to review sites and you might get listed quicker.

Ricardo Ramirez said:

Search Engine Placement without ODP

What you need to do is find other sources. Do not rely entirely in ODP placement, you could get high ranking in Google and other search engines by simply acquiring links directed to your site, that is what I did and my page ranks within the first 10 in our most targeted key words.
By not posting sarcastic and irrelevant questions in this forum will allow the editors to have more time to review sites and you might get listed quicker.

Click to expand...

I agree. We do many other things and are very well listed. It's just that this would help us too. I agree about the sarcastic post!

Ricardo Ramirez said:

Do not rely entirely in ODP placement

Click to expand...

I would change this to "do not rely in ODP placement at all".
The site has been suggested. It has even been suggested to many times and in the wrong categories. Do not suggest the site any more (and also tell all your colleagues), continuing might get the site and all other sites of this company to be banned. Oneday (which day that will be noone knows) the suggestion will be reviewed.

You're right: there really isn't a way a webmaster can "get listed" in the ODP. And so looking for one, is bound to be frustrating. You expect all kinds of procedures and chains of command and "customer service divisions" and ... you don't see them. They must be hidden in that "black box."

But the black box is empty. There isn't any way to squeeze a response out of editors. There aren't any customers, and there's nobody paid to to get them or keep them. So all the things you'd normally find in the "marketing" and "sales" and "post-sales" and "support" are just simply ... missing.

It's just product development, that's all.

And there's not really anything in the way of "project management" except "quality control." If the stuff shipped is good, that's all that matters. So all internal procedures are geared toward making editors more efficient, more productive -- which means in part, protecting them from irrelevant obstacles (like, for instance, importunate webmasters).

So the webmaster looking for a way of importuning, will find editors looking for the same thing -- with the intent of blocking it as thoroughly as possible.

I know, that's not what you expect to see in either a corporation or a bureaucracy. But don't hypothesize a "black box" hiding the CSR's and secret police. What you don't see is what is just not there. What you see is random editors finding sites (apparently at random). That's what it looks like from the inside also.

An additional bit of friendly advice.

No editor is likely to call. It is a dangerous precident that no sane editor would follow.

My free advice is that this is a public forum, and you might want to edit out your phone number since you never know who is going to misuse it.

Think of this: Fred spammer could call tomorrow, purporting to be an ODP editor and make all sort of undeliverable promises and evel solicit a bribe or three. You'd have no way of knowing who is calling or if they are who they claim to be. Sofor your own safety, go back and edit out your phone number.

you might want to edit out your phone number

Click to expand...

I've done it for him.

spectregunner said:

An additional bit of friendly advice.

No editor is likely to call. It is a dangerous precident that no sane editor would follow.

My free advice is that this is a public forum, and you might want to edit out your phone number since you never know who is going to misuse it.

Think of this: Fred spammer could call tomorrow, purporting to be an ODP editor and make all sort of undeliverable promises and evel solicit a bribe or three. You'd have no way of knowing who is calling or if they are who they claim to be. Sofor your own safety, go back and edit out your phone number.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the advice, I edited out my last name as well. Is there a way of knowing if the editor of a category is competition? And is there a way for me to see the submission history of our site that pre-dated my being here at the company?

I feel that this message format (as opposed to phone) breeds an antagonism that isn't necessary.

Click to expand...

Unfortunately a lot of people have very strong feelings about DMOZ and many editors have had a different experience. That's why they prefer to have communication in the open [here], rather that emails or phones. I've had death threats via email -- here, people usually just swear at me. Some editors have had very,very bad phone calls.

And while understanding that the Animation submission was not under your control, it was not an accident, it happened more than once.

bobrat said:

And while understanding that the Animation submission was not under your control, it was not an accident, it happened more than once.

Click to expand...

Is it possible that it happened before or company purchased the domain name? (Why would we want to be under animation when we're a top seller of window coverings...)

In any case, thanks for looking up our case.

And is there a way for me to see the submission history of our site

Click to expand...

That should be sites surely. No there isn't unless Jay keeps records.

jimnoble]That should be [B]sites[/B said:

surely. No there isn't unless Jay keeps records.

Click to expand...

Re: "sites"...niether Blinds.com nor NoBrainerBlinds.com (the first seller of blinds online) are listed in DMOZ I don't think. Getting both listed isn't my goal. Just getting blinds.com would be fine since it's the better site for customers.

But the collective amnesia [of the rest of the staff of course] of all those multiple submissions now comes back to haunt you. It's almost a question of which category did someone not submit a site to.

Is there a way of knowing if the editor of a category is competition?

Click to expand...

I think it is important to understand several things:

1. No editor controls a category. Any editor with appropriatepermissions can edit in any category, and permissions do not equate to exclusivity.

2. Not counting editors in the editing tree directly above a given category, there are more than 200 editors who can and do edit in any category within the directory.

3. The vast majority of edits, directory wide, are done by editors who are not the named editor of a given category.

For those reasons, and many others, the oft stated claim that a company was kept out of the directory because the editor was a competitor is very much an urban myth, often promulgated by people we have caught spamming/abusing the directory. Sure, there have been a few cases were editors have misused their positions, but those are invariably discovered and any wrongs are righted. This is but one reason why new editors are only allowed to edit in very small categories, so that we can see what they are doing and any dmage is limited.

If nothing else, think of the odds: 590,000+ categories, and fewer than 10,000 active editors. What are the chances?

niether Blinds.com nor NoBrainerBlinds.com ...

Click to expand...

You might want to ask your colleagues if there are any others.

Your intemperate first post here triggered an investigation and we know that there are.

Interesting

One editor says: "For those reasons, and many others, the oft stated claim that a company was kept out of the directory because the editor was a competitor is very much an urban myth, often promulgated by people we have caught spamming/abusing the directory."

Another editor says: "Your intemperate first post here triggered an investigation and we know that there are."

Hmmm...!

Still wondering if acarplace.com will ever get listed...two years and counting...