Amazing Search engine discreptancy

I have tried to get my website <url removed> listed on the Open directory for years now and for the love of it been totally unsuccessful.
It must be my approach to it or something I am never going to solve.
I have given up trying to get my site listed but what amazes me is that my website is very highly rated in Australia and ranks well with ALL search engines and not found by the Open Directory. http://search.dmoz.org/cgi-bin/search?search=Young+Victor+Boxing you may try try this and while you are in that page click on all the suggested search engines and will all show as number one.
I run a very clean and honest website and frquently told it it superb.
If anyone can inform me of what is wrong here or what I may be doing or not doing I will appreciate being informed.

My email is <email removed>

Kindest Regards in BOXING
Young Victor

you may try try this and while you are in that page click on all the suggested search engines and will all show as number one.

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You do not need DMOZ then.

I run a very clean and honest website and frquently told it it superb.

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There are still lot of great sites like yours that are unlisted.

If anyone can inform me of what is wrong here or what I may be doing or not doing I will appreciate being informed.

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Unfortunately we do not provide that service. Only you and you alone can say whats wrong and we are not an Optimization Service.

There's nothing "wrong" to "correct." The ODP editors are building a site, based on the priorities that drive them; you're building a site based on the priorities that drive you. And that is all all right.

If you've suggested a site for us to review, then we'll check it out ... but only the editor who actually does the review will know when that will happen. So we really can't tell you anything because we don't know any more than that.

Thanks hutcheson and monayuki,
I thank you very much for your information.
You are the very first persons to give me any clues.
I tell you I started getting an inferiority complex as I have tried so hard to get an editor to pass my site.
I am now 65 years old and basically retired and trying to put into boxing a lot I had to miss out on doing during my business days.
If at all you can help in having my site in the to do basket (some day) I will be very appreciative.
I would love to have my site along other respectul boxing sites in the Open Directory even if just in "regional section".
I am assuming that this may eventuate before I pass on ( not that I am planning anything of such nature)

Thanks again hutcheson monayuki.
Kindest Regards.
Young Victor

monayuki said:

You do not need DMOZ then.

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I wish to point out a contradiction in this statement.

Admins and editors in DMOZ have exhaustively and consistently told people that they should not rely on being listed in DMOZ. However, here you have a webmaster saying that they enjoy high rankings anyway.... and then an editor says "well... you don't need DMOZ then."

ptch3457 said:

I wish to point out a contradiction in this statement.

Admins and editors in DMOZ have exhaustively and consistently told people that they should not rely on being listed in DMOZ. However, here you have a webmaster saying that they enjoy high rankings anyway.... and then an editor says "well... you don't need DMOZ then."

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Actually I think they agree totally.

1. Webmaster: "I didn't need DMOZ to rank", and

2. Editor: "You don't need DMOZ then".

same : same!

fathom said:

Actually I think they agree totally.

1. Webmaster: "I didn't need DMOZ to rank", and

2. Editor: "You don't need DMOZ then".

same : same!

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Just because the webmaster agrees about not needing DMOZ for their high rankings... does not mean that the contradiction in the statements I pointed out does not exist. They were simply stating that, for whatever reason, they have achieved high rankings without being included in the directory.

Editors and admins have repeatedly stated that DMOZ does not exist to help rankings. Yet, the editor's statement, that they don't need DMOZ since they already have high rankings, seems to reinforce the opposite idea. Shouldn't they attempt to be listed anyway? :icon_idea

ptch3457 said:

Shouldn't they attempt to be listed anyway? :icon_idea

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Sure... but suggesting a site and forgetting about it is not just the best thing to do... it is the only thing you can do.

Editors and Metas repeatedly state the same thing over & over again, because suggesting a site and forgetting about it is not just the best thing to do... it is the only thing you can do.

fathom said:

Sure... but suggesting a site and forgetting about it is not just the best thing to do... it is the only thing you can do.

Editors and Metas repeatedly state the same thing over & over again, because suggesting a site and forgetting about it is not just the best thing to do... it is the only thing you can do.

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Rather than me responding to this here.... I'll just post a like to what I've said elsewhere.

http://resource-zone.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=41603&page=5

No editors post here as official ODP representatives, none of us represents anybody or anything other than ourselves. (There are exceptions, such as the administrator posting in the thread about ODP statistics, but those are exceptions.) This is not an official information channel for the directory, you know.

That being said, the "then" is what is causing confusion here. If you interpret the sentence as "See, you didn't need a listing!" rather than "In that case you didn't need a listing", it might make more sense. From what we are being told, an ODP listing has very little impact on how successful a web site is in terms of page rank and similar things. I've never seen anybody who looks as if they know what they talk about saying the opposite. So no, as far as I am aware, webmasters don't need the ODP. (This is borne out by the many listed sites that die every year, despite having been listed in the ODP for years.)

nea said:

From what we are being told, an ODP listing has very little impact on how successful a web site is in terms of page rank and similar things. I've never seen anybody who looks as if they know what they talk about saying the opposite.

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I completely understand that a listing in the ODP may not help a bad website. Their sites failing, obviously have to do with other factors. Anyone who thinks differently is incorrect. But... I think just by browsing online, analyzing the optimization, and the link popularity of sites, you will find that a listing in the ODP does indeed "assist" good websites in achieving higher placements compared to websites of similar quality and category that do not have a listing in the ODP.

In fact, I have four websites - of which I have designed and optimized on my own. Two of these sites were listed in DMOZ... by who.. I don't know, because I didn't submit them. The other two sites are ecommerce, one of which is listed (which I submitted) and the other that can't seem to get listed at all. Obviously, I have used the same practices for SEO. The sites are all well designed, are easy to navigate, and have high relevance in their respective categories. The three that are listed all rank significantly higher than the one that is not. We are talking dozens and dozens of spaces down the list in difference - mainly in G**gle. Based upon this experience, and in viewing other sites, I think a reasonable person in my position would conclude that an ODP listing definitely makes a difference.

Not to mention.. if it didn't matter, why all the scratching and clawing to get in? I think it is common knowledge by experts in the field that being listed here, in addition to good web practices in general, and being listed elsewhere too, is very important. It is a receipe.... and without DMOZ as an ingredient... some are indeed missing out, particularly in G**gle. For anyone to suggest otherwise, in my opinion, is misguided, and quite contrary to what the evidence suggests.

>if it didn't matter, why all the scratching and clawing to get in?

I chalk that up to "self-delusion." What is "common knowledge" in marketroid group-think circles has never had much to do with reality. Those guys are into persuasive presentation of lies, not looking for truth.

monayuki said:

You do not need DMOZ then.

There are still lot of great sites like yours that are unlisted.


Unfortunately we do not provide that service. Only you and you alone can say whats wrong and we are not an Optimization Service.

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Gentlemen,
"I do need DMOZ"
I am very eager to get listed in the ODP because I consider it something to be proud of as I see other respectable competitive sites all listed in the ODP.
I did'nt meant to start any arguments although what I see is more like sensible debate.
I wish to thank you all because I am learning a lot by all this.

I came in today to check and I did not expect to see any of this as I thought an email may have alerted me to all these answers to my earlier comments.

Cheers
Young Victor

It's better not to think of the ODP as ANY kind of service for webmasters -- not promotion, not recognition, not profit, not anything. Any other way leads to frustration and insanity (as you can see by visiting any of the sleazier sort of SERP forums).

Think of the ODP as a service, a unique service, for surfers, uniquely for surfers. Any "promotion" or "recognition" or "profit" or anything else a webmaster gets from an ODP listing, is strictly accidental.

That's why nobody here seems to care whether your website is promoted or recognized or not. Oh, we wouldn't go out of our way to keep it from happening -- but it is nothing we'd ever do on purpose.

Competition isn't really an issue either -- except that if there's enough competition already, it doesn't help surfers much to find more of it. What is most valuable to surfers (and what we want to focus on) is -- the sites that have NO competition. And there are millions of those as yet unlisted!

Obviously, I have used the same practices for SEO. The sites are all well designed, are easy to navigate, and have high relevance in their respective categories. The three that are listed all rank significantly higher than the one that is not. We are talking dozens and dozens of spaces down the list in difference - mainly in G**gle. Based upon this experience, and in viewing other sites, I think a reasonable person in my position would conclude that an ODP listing definitely makes a difference.

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No, I do not agree that the conclusionis inevitable. There could be any number of other factors that can influence your ranking -- which is why from the perspecitve fo editors -- ranking is irrelevant.

We can't use this forum to get into detailed discussions on ranking -- and until such time as Google chooses to make its ranking calculations public, it is somewhat senseless to discuss the influence (or lack of same) DMOZ listings have on Google.

Suffice to say, one of my sites, which I have meticulously not submitted, is ranked either #1 or #2 on its most important keyword, depending upon which Google server farm services the search.

Bottom line: your mileage may vary.

I personally believe the listing affects rankings- I had a very good ranking in Google for several years (my site was listed in DMOZ very early on). Since my site was removed from DMOZ I am pretty much invisible in Google (ranked 650 odd, and there certainly are not 649 more relevant sites in my area). Note that I still have good to reasonable rankings on other search engines. I firmly believe there is a connection, but not necessarily a direct one.

Because other sites use the DMOZ database listings, they are generating more links to your site and boosting your page rank. So as far as Google is concerned, your site is worth including in their search results. So yes, you can get by fine without it if plenty of other site are linking to yours, but for many businesses that just isn't going to happen. Your competitors are hardly going to link to you and who else cares about your business? So please don't keep saying a listing in DMOZ doesn't matter, because in many cases it does, rightly or wrongly. And you can hardly blame people for wanting their site to be found by a major search engine. And for many people the frustration is just not knowing why they aren't listed, or whether they were reviewed yet, or whatever. Easy to say submit and forget but harder to do when your business is losing trade.

Do you think that the fact that your site wasn't working for a couple of years might have anything to do with how you're ranking in Google? I would think that would be the more relevant information to Google than a non listing in DMOZ or it's clones.

God you guys just don't get it. My site has been WORKING FINE for many years. If it wasn't then the people who visit it would not be sending enquiries through to me now would they??? Please stop saying my site was/is broken, it's just not true. Or are you trying to make out that everyone in Australia can see it and the rest of the world can't? There really is no need to keep blaming the people who post for making valid comments and enquiries. No-one is critising DMOZ (well not me anyway) or its editors people just want to know why year after year they don't get listed for no apparent reason. Or in my case, why they were listed then disppeared. I enquired because I read one post where someone was removed accidentally by an editor and it got fixed up for them. I guess I was hoping the same might happen for me.

Look lets face the facts. The wayback machine may not be perfect, but it can't create text on your web site out of nowhere (and it does not make creative spelling errors). It was getting the following errors, I can only assume reviewing editors got similar results.

The internet is a weird place, and there could be any number of explanations why this could be happening. I spend six hours yesterday, trying to find why all ny sites were inaccesable to one of my computers - but available for 45 seconds after I reset my TCP address, but the rest of the world could see them (fixed, but nobody knows why), and I spend 4 hours today trying to find why Amazon was down on all of my computers (An alternate bad DNS on my ISP, that was pointed to by my router)

Sep 26 2003 This site is currently being updated. We apologise for any inconvenice.

Oct 28, 2003 This site is currently being updated. We apologise for any inconvenice.

Dec 07, 2003 This site is currently being updated. We apologise for any inconvenice.

Mar 31, 2004 This site is under construction and will be available soon.

May 19, 2004 This site is under construction and will be available soon.

Sep 19, 2004 This site is under construction and will be available soon.

I think the dialog has run out in this thread.

Neve, you're welcome to resubmit your site, once, in the newly appropriate category, if you haven't already. It will (of course) have to be reviewed as if new, and (as always) we don't know how long it will take. Needless to say, if surfers are being mostly satisfied by your competitors' offerings, the plan to build out the ODP category will be lacking urgency.

Editors, this really isn't the place for website configuration suggestions. There are many forums where webmasters can get advice on DNS or htaccess or redirection or any of the various configuration oddities that afflict webservers.