Can it be repaired?

The ODP seems irrepairably broken. Has this noble experiment failed? Trying to get listed is akin to winning the lotto...lots of hope but reality tells you it is near impossible. One site...waiting over 2 years...nothing. Another, "only" 2+ months. Do I resubmit? Yes, no, who knows. Resubmitting is bad, or is it?

I have no idea if my categories are short on editors, staffed with lazy editors, or staffed with self serving editors who do not want competition. Whichever, this is a broken system. One can only hope that the search engines realize an ODP link should be worth no more than any other link. An ODP link in no way signifies a quality site; it only signifies luck or manipulation.

The saddest thing is that in one category that I am "waiting" to be included in out of 22 listings there are 2 listings that are listed 2 times each, one right below the other.

So much for a relevant, quality, unqiue index. I cannot get a unique site listed, yet some sites are blatantly listed twice?

Broken beyond repair. I say face reality and abandon this sinking ship.

Please post the category and the two duplicate listings in the Quality Control thread - and someone will look at it.

http://www.resource-zone.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=5453&page=111&pp=15

Yes, what lmocr said.

If you know of broken listings and don't tell us what they are and where, you have no reason to be annoyed.

*sigh* I'm so tired of people coming in here every week and starting new threads to complain about how the ODP is dead and editors are lazy and/or abusive. Surely there are enough open threads here on the subjects that you could just keep the joy going in one of those, couldn't you?

I much more prefer if all these people who want DMOZ to be something it isn't and never will be (aka a listing service for webmasters) would keep there ignorant complaints in other forums.

Sorry for the frustration but look at things objectively. The ODP is a club claiming free admittance to all. At this club you're able to make great business contacts. However, when "you" ask for admittance you're ignored and not allowed in.

The attitude of ODP not being a webmaster listing service is proposterous. It has, intentionally or otherwise, become just that. When an ODP listing has become so valuable don't you think that someone who has waited 2+ years has a right to be a little pissed off? The whole thing stinks to high heaven of cronyism, i.e. the guy controlling the gates looks out first, foremost and exclusively for his own arse.

Once people like me conclude the ODP is such a mess, getting listed such a futile endeavor, doesn't that defeat the whole premise of it? The sites I was (past tense) waiting to get listed where unique, quality sites and certainly higher quality than many many sites that are listed. So in the end the idea of it being some sort of ultra high quality directory just doesn't hold any water.

The people praising this system are likely either part of it or are benefiting from it. I'd love to see someone with an ecommerce site waiting YEARS for listing come in here and say how great the ODP functions.

Yes, it is broken. Gladly as the search engines de-emphasize the ODP it can get back to its original roots (whatever the hell that was).

I say face reality and abandon this sinking ship.

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If you let us know your URLs, we might be able to arrange that for you.

My own sampling has suggested that the ODP generally makes about 2/3 to 3/4 of all the listable sites readily accessible. That is a factor of two higher than any other source on the web -- yes, including Google!

And in many subjects the discrepancy is far wider. Just see how deep you have to go in Google to find ten websites of actual Las Vegas hotels. (Can you consider anything listed after the first 200 Hotelrezzer affiliate doorway pages "readily accessible"?)

This remains true even in relatively neglected categories.

Of course, "one third of the listable internet sites" would still be millions of sites. Which is, perhaps, one reason why editors are still active.

Of course, your sites could be among two million good sites lacking a directory listing -- or one of twenty million spam doorways. We won't know without reviewing (on the average) about eleven million sites. You may be able to guess, based on the "unique non-promotional content" rule.

Of course, there's no way to guess whether your sites will be among the first eleven million sites reviewed, or the second. But it doesn't really matter. The editors will be using techniques that, in their judgment, tend to get the best sites reviewed more quickly ON THE AVERAGE -- but no technique is perfect, and since we really don't know whether a site is listable until after it's been reviewed, no technique can be really good. If a Google search finds one or two sites in 100 results, it's been pretty successful. By that standards, the 3-10 good sites out of 100 submittals doesn't sound so awful!

Resubmitting is pretty much bad. Breaking up your content into multiple non-mutually-supporting sites, is pretty much fatal. (If your sites aren't worth linking ON YOUR OWN SITES, what are the chances anyone else on the net would want to link to them? You aren't going to be able to figure out without studying calculus of infinitesimals.)

iceman536 said:

The ODP is a club claiming free admittance to all. At this club you're able to make great business contacts.

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Must be a different ODP as the one I'm an editor for.
Free admittance to all - certainly not. Free - yes ; for all - never.

The attitude of ODP not being a webmaster listing service is proposterous. It has, intentionally or otherwise, become just that. When an ODP listing has become so valuable don't you think that someone who has waited 2+ years has a right to be a little pissed off? The whole thing stinks to high heaven of cronyism, i.e. the guy controlling the gates looks out first, foremost and exclusively for his own arse.

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What a bunch of self-centered, unmitigated garbage.

Just because you want us to be a listing service, it is not.
Just because you don't care to know about what we are trying to accomplish is not justification for expecting us to change to what you want us to be.

Let me ask you a question, if you can stop shouting long enough to actually listen:

Have you ever read our social contract?

Because if you have not, then you are totally out of line coming in here and ranting at us.

If you have, they you would know exactly how far off the mark you are with these criticisms.

We have promised you nothing, and made no commitments. If you want to act like you are part of the welfare class and demand some sort of "entitlement" from us simply because you exist, you are not going to get a very warm welcome in here.

Bottom line: we owe you nothing; and you have no standing with which to "demand" anything.

jimnoble said:

If you let us know your URLs, we might be able to arrange that for you.

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I knew I would take flak for my comments but your response was the best. Because I voice criticisms that gives you the right to be vindictive?

And us outsiders are out of line thinking that this process may be less than fair? I'm a guy saying I don't think the playing field is level. Response seem to indicate it is, I just happen to be a loser in the listing lotto. Fine maybe I can accept that argument, but a thinly-veiled threat of retribution is another matter entirely and just reinforces my argument even more.

spectregunner said:

What a bunch of self-centered, unmitigated garbage.
Let me ask you a question, if you can stop shouting long enough to actually listen:

We have promised you nothing, and made no commitments. If you want to act like you are part of the welfare class and demand some sort of "entitlement" from us simply because you exist, you are not going to get a very warm welcome in here.

Bottom line: we owe you nothing; and you have no standing with which to "demand" anything.

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Chill out and take some anger management classes. I was hardly shouting nor was I demanding anything. I, like many others, am frustrated that a site submitted years ago was never added. It is certainly relevant, unique and in no way spammy. Concluding from that that this site review process doesn't work well isn't that far of a stretch.

I didn't personally attack you, so don't be so angry!

The whole thing stinks to high heaven of cronyism, i.e. the guy controlling the gates looks out first, foremost and exclusively for his own arse.

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Sounds like a personal attack to me - since editors "control the gates" in a manner of speaking.

>When an ODP listing has become so valuable don't you think that someone who has waited 2+ years has a right to be a little pissed off?

It's your snit and your mind: you can keep it there as long as you wish.

Or you can get over it and find more constructive thoughts and actions for the next two years.

It is your choice, and you have a right to either choice.

I hope that clears up THAT confusion.

I didn't personally attack you, so don't be so angry!

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Let's see

• staffed with lazy editors, or staffed with self serving editors who do not want competition
• the guy controlling the gates looks out first, foremost and exclusively for his own arse
• The people praising this system are likely either part of it or are benefiting from it

These are personal attacks on all DMOZ editors.

This conversation has become pointless. Closing.

Concluding from that that this site review process doesn't work well isn't that far of a stretch.

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Ah, that's the nub of the matter.
You are reasoning from the point of view that there exists a process to review, within any given time frame, a site that has been suggested.
Our point of view is very different. We look at the categories, in the directory. They are our responsibility - the sites suggested to them are not. That a suggested site hasn't been reviewed doesn't mean that it has been ignored, only that nobody has elected to work in that category. Or it could mean that somebody has been working there, only not reviewing suggested sites, because there were other things that neeed to be done in the category.

So yes, it's a far stretch, provided you know what it is we are trying to do.