Category changed to non-relevant

V

varun

I was wondering if someone could help. My site www.siolimhouse.com is for a small heritage hotel. For some years it has been in its relevant category for hotels in our very small territory in Goa. Now it has been put into a newly created category for the village we live in! I am the only site there and will be for many many years, and it is very damaging as you can guess for a unique lodge that people often find by accident. I am desparate to have it reinstated in lodging (or hotel), that is where it belongs, and that is where other properties are too..
 
V

varun

Re: www.siolimhouse.com

Hi
Thanks for your post. You see, Goa is a tiny state - probably the smallest in india, and while tthre are 3 large localities, mine is a village of 500 people. As you would note, 90% of the hotels are listed among hotels or lodging. Those that are not are in the larger towns (Panaji, Margao) in particular, which have about 80,000 people each. I would guess that the editor for the category would be very aware of this..I guess that is why you have editors with local knowledge. This is really a special situation - very very unlike the us, where there are 50-60 hotels in a specific locality. In mine there is one and that only because it was a 400 year old house..
 
V

varun

Re: www.siolimhouse.com

Hi Thanks a lot for your responsiveness - I am really impressed by your dedication to DMOZ !

It looks like the categories are changed somewhat and are more logical now - but seriously - in Goa outside of the main towns people do not look for accomodation by village or locality, but by major area ("North Goa" or "South Goa" is sufficient) if that. Furthermore, it is a bit confusing as hotels are classified under "hotels" but some properties are moved to "lodging". (I guess the latter is for homestays). As for us, we are a hotel so there is a real reason for us to be listed in hotels, rather than in lodging.

i know this may be confusing for you too, but please dont get fatigued by this discussion just yet, a number of properies would really appreciate being classified as DMOZ is very important especially when the PR technology is used by google relevant to your listings. If there is one entry per locality that PR technology will not be very useful for viewers. I guess the reason for listing hotels together is just so that viewers see PR.

Finally there are many properties even homestays that are listed without a locality and are mixed in with reservation directories whose purpose I dont really know, but I think have a relevant category in DMOZ.

Stay with me here....
 

Re: www.siolimhouse.com

Your points have a limited validity - if Goa was the only issue here, then listing them all at State level (Goa) might make sense, but because the directory encompasses states/regions in different countries and some with huge numbers of sites, we have a directory wide approach of listing in the actual locality, and linking to/from the state categories. The state categories are linked to the country level, and so forth.

it is a bit confusing as hotels are classified under "hotels" but some properties are moved to "lodging"
Click to expand...

Actually Lodging is the higher level category and includes all accommodation including homestays, bed and breakfasts, hotels, motels, and vacation rentals to name a few. When enough sites of a particular type exist within the Lodging category, a sub category is created - in this case it is Hotels .

http://dmoz.org/Regional/Asia/India/Goa/Travel_and_Tourism/Lodging/ contains links to all the Localities with Lodging categories, such as Panaji and Solim , and contains sites that have multiple locations within Goa.

Now it happens that there are a fair number of multiple location hotel sites at Goa level, so they have been grouped into a sub category Goa/Travel_and_Tourism/Lodging/Hotels/ .

If there were several sites for hotels in one of the localities, then the Hotels sub category would be created in the localities Lodging category.

a number of properies would really appreciate being classified
Click to expand...

...and we'd like to classify them, but using our structure to do it.

I guess the reason for listing hotels together is just so that viewers see PR
Click to expand...

Sorry, but we really don't care what google does with our data, other than provide attribution, and do not allow (or are permitted) to take that into consideration. We are a directory and not a search enngine.

there are many properties even homestays that are listed without a locality
Click to expand...
That occurs when the locality has not yet been created, or the actual location is not near a locality, for instance a property 50 km's from the nearest town/village.

reservation directories whose purpose I dont really know
Click to expand...
Well it's getting much harder to get a directory listed, and one that exists only to do bookings will have a harder time still. When they are listable, they are placed in the Lodging sub category until enough of them exist to create a Lodging/Guides_and_Directories sub category.

I think this covers your points, hope it makes sense.
:)
 
V

varun

Re: www.siolimhouse.com

Thanks for your comprehensive response. I also saw that the directory structure has changed. Can I suggest 2 things?
1) my locality is siolim, not solim...
2) can you put these little localities/villages by 2 major ones? North Goa and South Goa. that will be really really useful now that you have overhauled the structure..

Here is the list

North Goa
Anjuna @   (1)
Arpora @   (1)
Bambolim @   (1)
Calangute @   (9)
Candolim @   (3)
Dona Paula @   (2)
Mandrem @   (1)
Panaji @   (3)
Ponda @   (1)
Solim @   (1)
(please change to SIOLIM)

South Goa
Benaulim @   (1)
Cavelossim @   (4)
Colva @   (2)
Dabolim @   (1)
Majorda @   (1)
Palolem @   (2)

Many thanks

Varun
 
M

motsa

Curlie Admin
Joined
Sep 18, 2002
Messages
13,294
Re: www.siolimhouse.com

In order to group them like that, we'd have to first create region categories called North Goa and South Goa right under Goa (e.g. Regional/Asia/India/Goa/North_Goa) and then create Travel and Tourism and Travel and Tourism/Lodging categories under them. We can't just group them within the Regional/Asia/India/Goa/Travel_and_Tourism/Lodging/ category by region.

The village name has been corrected.
 
bldarter

bldarter

Curlie Admin
Joined
Mar 27, 2002
Messages
101
Re: www.siolimhouse.com

I did a limited reorganization of the categories last night. I *could* have created hotel categories, but chose not to for several reasons. Time: You'll notice that many of the lodging sites in Goa self-describe as a resort. That would mean creating a "Resort" and a "Hotel" category in many localities and looking at each site to see if they were really a resort or a hotel with "resort" in their name to attract business.

I didn't think the number of listings justified breaking down the lodging categories further. It is possible that another editor will break the locality lodging categories into Resorts, Vacation Rentals, Resorts, etc. That would be "right" also. I won't do it, but another editor might.

In case anyone else does decide to work on Goa, I found http://www.bombayproperty.com/goamap.html extremely helpful.

Each Goan locality category should have a category description which describes where it is in Goa.

Now to those lodging "directories" listed in the Goa/Travel_and_Tourism and Goa/Travel_and_Tourism/Lodging. I had questions about some of them. Some seemed misplaced (some were there before the categories were well developed at all). Some might be affiliate or something else we don't list. Point out the marginal sites and what they are and we'll take a closer look at them.

As to the Goa Hotels category itself, I would be happy to move all the sites up a level to Lodging and delete the Hotels category. But, and this is a *very* big but, we don't delete a long standing category like that one. It breaks too many things we don't want broken.
 
V

varun

Re: www.siolimhouse.com

In order to group them like that, we'd have to first create region categories called North Goa and South Goa right under Goa (e.g. Regional/Asia/India/Goa/North_Goa) and then create Travel and Tourism and Travel and Tourism/Lodging categories under them.
Click to expand...

Each Goan locality category should have a category description which describes where it is in Goa.
Click to expand...

I am sure that separating the listing by North and South Goa as described above is extremely useful. Also as you have now seen this is not an extensive category, so it would really help to make it easy.

I have mentioned a list for the villages above, and you will see a full map on http://www.johnthemap.co.uk/goa/maps.html which also show all the coastal villages (and show how the state is clearly defined by north and south. South of the Zuari River (the lower one) - Vasco and to the south is South Goa.

I didn't think the number of listings justified breaking down the lodging categories further. It is possible that another editor will break the locality lodging categories into Resorts, Vacation Rentals, Resorts, etc. That would be "right" also. I won't do it, but another editor might.
Click to expand...

I agree too (see above) - besides, the terms resort/hotel are used very loosely in Goa - basically interchageable, so "Lodging is fine". If the category gets bigger, an editor could look at that then.

Now to those lodging "directories" listed in the Goa/Travel_and_Tourism and Goa/Travel_and_Tourism/Lodging. I had questions about some of them. Some seemed misplaced (some were there before the categories were well developed at all). Some might be affiliate or something else we don't list. Point out the marginal sites and what they are and we'll take a closer look at them.
Click to expand...

The three remaining unclassified in Lodging are all directories and would fit well in "services". Of the 5 remaining unclassified in hotels, all properties of no 1 are in North Goa. 2/3/5 are booking services/directories. No 4 is based in Panjim (Panaji) - North Goa, Properties too are in North Goa.

As to the Goa Hotels category itself, I would be happy to move all the sites up a level to Lodging and delete the Hotels category. But, and this is a *very* big but, we don't delete a long standing category like that one. It breaks too many things we don't want broken.
Click to expand...

Ideally - as mentioned before, it would really be best if all lodging sites were put together (under "North Goa" and SOuth Goa, or by the 6-7 districts that exist in Goa, and then all together by "Lodging" or "hotels". Whichever way you choose to go, you are almost there in your classification (barring the few above) and would have put all sites where they belong. This would clear out the hotels category completely, and make it a level playing field for all.


BTW the first site on http://dmoz.org/Regional/Asia/India/Goa/Maps_and_Views/ is not a real map site, but a page going on to a booking service/directory already present on DMOZ. A great site to add for that is the John the map site mentioned above..

Many thanks for this painstaking work - you are all welcome to visit anytime!
 
M

motsa

Curlie Admin
Joined
Sep 18, 2002
Messages
13,294
Re: www.siolimhouse.com

Ideally - as mentioned before, it would really be best if all lodging sites were put together (under "North Goa" and SOuth Goa, or by the 6-7 districts that exist in Goa, and then all together by "Lodging" or "hotels". Whichever way you choose to go, you are almost there in your classification (barring the few above) and would have put all sites where they belong. This would clear out the hotels category completely, and make it a level playing field for all.
Click to expand...
Any grouping of localities by North Goa and South Goa is likely going to be long time coming. The current arrangement in the Goa category is fine for now given the size and content of it.
 
V

varun

Re: www.siolimhouse.com

thanks for the work

You asked me
Point out the marginal sites and what they are and we'll take a closer look at them.
Click to expand...

The three remaining unclassified in Lodging are all directories and would fit well in "services". Of the 5 remaining unclassified in hotels, all properties of listing no 1 are in North Goa. 2/3/5 are booking services/directories. No 4 is based in Panjim (Panaji) - North Goa, Properties too are in North Goa.
I hope that helps and then every one in the listing is on a level playing field.
Thanks
 
V

varun

Re: www.siolimhouse.com

Any grouping of localities by North Goa and South Goa is likely going to be long time coming. The current arrangement in the Goa category is fine for now given the size and content of it.
Click to expand...

Dear Motsa:

Thanks for your reply. I understand your point of view where you dont wish to treat this differently,to your current system because of the small number of sites. To be forced to make another subdivision on that basis will indeed take tens of years, given how small Goa is (in pop terms). My point was on the basis of geography - this state is 65 miles North to South, with a very small population.

If you look at the Yahoo directory - and I know you dont wish to be compared - although they have a small number of sparsely populated localities, they have also divided by North and South Goa, and there was a time that directory was useful.

I hope that makes sense - as I will no longer belabour this. I really think there is a case here...i dont have an agenda - little drops make this ocean great! (sorry about that pearl!)
 
M

motsa

Curlie Admin
Joined
Sep 18, 2002
Messages
13,294
Re: www.siolimhouse.com

In answer to one of the questions you asked in your other thread:

>>2. the directories must be put elsewhere thann under hotels/lodging "

Where? Yes, we can put directories into a Guides and Directories category within Lodging if we choose (and if there are enough of them) but it's not a requirement. It's not wrong to have the multi lodging directories at the root of the Goa Lodging category and it isn't wrong to have the hotel only lodging directories at the root of the Hotels category.
 
L

lissa

Member
Joined
Mar 25, 2002
Messages
918
Re: www.siolimhouse.com

You seem to have a lot of local knowledge and interest in this area. Have you considered applying to become an editor? An active local editor might be able to expand the size of the Goa category to the point where creating North and South regions would make sense. If you choose to apply, I would recommend trying for one of the bigger localities. After gaining some editing experience, you could then try applying to the Goa category.
:cool:
 
V

varun

Re: www.siolimhouse.com

Of course I am happy to help...we realise (even a small business) how important the internet can be to a small out of the way place...that is for me bridging the digital divide

And any possibility of at least finding a place for the few remaining sites. Clearly there is already a place - http://dmoz.org/Regional/Asia/India/Goa/Travel_and_Tourism/Travel_Services/
And any possibility of the North/South divide? I feel I have tried to explain and I will lay off..
 
V

varun

Re: www.siolimhouse.com

Where? Yes, we can put directories into a Guides and Directories category within Lodging if we choose (and if there are enough of them) but it's not a requirement.
Click to expand...

here is where their competitors are
For No. 1 in "Hotels"
http://dmoz.org/Regional/Asia/India/Goa/Travel_and_Tourism/Travel_Services/
no 2, goes nowhere - dead link
no 3 is based in the UK!
But could go in http://dmoz.org/Regional/Asia/India/Goa/Travel_and_Tourism/Travel_Services/Tour_Operators/
Other UK address owners are based there..

In lodging they all go in the first link above where their competitors are

Really - its only fair to the others to do this..
 
V

varun

Re: www.siolimhouse.com

You may have tired of this, and this will be my last post. It is a pity to have done so much and then just not tie up the ends of this one - only 8 sites remain to be classified. I agreed when you said you list by brick and mortar address on principle, and I understood other principles of your listing.

Why then do you list a site based in the UK in preference in a VERY prominent place of "Lodgings", or generic booking services sites in "Hotels" over other little lodgings hidden away in the village listings...Further there is even a "site under construction" etc there...

Forget about me now - You do realise that this is VERY important for the small community that i am speaking about. The reason (once again) being that you have chosen unlike all other (even local) directories to list by village, and except the few souls in the smaller villages no visitor knows villages by name. That was my original request to introduce North / South Goa to help the user of DMOZ (not the webmasters!), but you kind of half-agreed, but (I think) then agreed not to agree!
 
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