Category Suggestion - Requesting You Observe Editors in these Categories

WagerWitch · Apr 4, 2009

Hi DMOZ folks and readers.

I have several things I would like to discuss, and felt that this was an appropriate place to post this discussion to.

While I truly do not wish to be an editor, I would sincerely like to offer some feedback for the Categories that I am TRULY hoping for massive improvement.

I would also like this to be actually read - and not treated as a "self-promotion" post. OK?

I am interested in the GAMBLING FIELD entries. Before you shake your head because you do not appreciate this topic - please be aware that this IS a topic that a LARGE population around the world appreciates and actively uses. And it is deserving of inclusion in an ONLINE DIRECTORY.

Because I am involved in Gambling Affiliations and the Online Gambling Industry - this is my hobby and my work online. With my site, online persona I speak with a LOT of people in this business online.

I have spoken to MANY people who are in this industry - whether in sales or in sideline businesses or promotions - or just informative sites and we have discussed ranking, SEO work, website building, traffic building and of course, DMOZ placement.

Most of them have discussed their inability to be listed in DMOZ.

Most of them felt that they were ignored or treated as though they were "spam" or not worthy for inclusion.

I, too, have found an inability to be placed, and have found that my submissions were ignored - with no email regarding placement or lack thereof.

Quite a few of us have been attempting placement FOR YEARS.

And even more of us have tried contacting the editors in those fields, with NO RESPONSE (in fact, the links to email the editors DO NOT work.)

And we began observing the current entries and tried to determine whether there were any new placements, etc.

WE HAVE BEEN UNABLE TO FIND ANY NEW PLACEMENTS.

To me, this suggests that the editors are not working, or are ignoring their volunteer work.

OR

EVEN WORSE...

The editors that are in place for those specific entries only signed up so that they could place their own preferred sites in those slots.

OR

TO the most Conspiracy Theorist's delight: The editors of those specific Categories of Online Gambling --- ONLY PROMOTE a Business IF the business OFFERS MONETARY REWARDS.

Personally I'm not a conspiracy theorist.

I believe that these specific editors in the GAMBLING section have simply quit their jobs.

So - what can we - as submission people do to provoke DMOZ to actually do something about it?

How can we complain that we are NOT being entered? Without being told that our entries are being viewed and it could take forever?

It would be different if it were just my site... Or just a few people's sites that are in this business --- But we're talking at least 45 - 50 sites.

And yet - we see some sites that should NOT be listed.

Anyhow - if you could please look into it - Because personally - I believe this Category should HONESTLY be treated as well as other categories.

I believe that DMOZ should practice FAIR techniques and be responsive --- I mean - customer service is important, regardless of what kind of online business you are.

AND FINALLY --- Might I suggest a New Category under GAMBLING?

GAMBLING BLOGS

Thank you for your time and for you reading this entire thread post.

Any and all replies will be welcome.

WagerWitch

makrhod · Apr 4, 2009

To me, this suggests that the editors are not working, or are ignoring their volunteer work.

And yet you also state

I truly do not wish to be an editor

Does it not strike you as just a little hypocritical to criticise volunteers for not doing something which you have no interest in doing yourself?

This is a hobby, and volunteer editors are free to spend their editing time as they choose, within the limits of the guidelines and their permissions. DMOZ is not a free listing service for webmasters, so there is absolutely no requirement for editors to spend any of their time looking at sites suggested by other people.

So - what can we - as submission people do to provoke DMOZ to actually do something about it

Absolutely nothing at all, because that is simply not a service we provide. Fortunately there are many other directories which provide listing services, and you can find them here: http://www.dmoz.org/Computers/Internet/Searching/Directories/

customer service is important, regardless of what kind of online business you are.

Very true, but completely irrelevant here, because DMOZ is not a business and does not serve "customers", just people all over the world who wish to use the directory free of charge.

WagerWitch · Apr 5, 2009

makrhod said:
makrhod said:

And yet you also state
Does it not strike you as just a little hypocritical to criticise volunteers for not doing something which you have no interest in doing yourself?

Click to expand...

ROFLMAO - I would volunteer - but I think that I would be --- well - how do you say it... Uhm a little biased. Or a lot biased.

This is a hobby, and volunteer editors are free to spend their editing time as they choose, within the limits of the guidelines and their permissions. DMOZ is not a free listing service for webmasters, so there is absolutely no requirement for editors to spend any of their time looking at sites suggested by other people.

Click to expand...

That's great - but don't you think it's a little odd that so many people would be trying to get listed - only to not be listed? In fact for there to be little to no change in these specific categories? Something we've all been paying attention to? (which is why I'm bringing it to your attention)

Here's the common thought process:

And I quote in response to DMOZ - have you managed to get listed?
"Nope, you will have to find someone on the inside there in order to get listed IMO. "

Absolutely nothing at all, because that is simply not a service we provide. Fortunately there are many other directories which provide listing services, and you can find them here: http://www.dmoz.org/Computers/Internet/Searching/Directories/

Click to expand...

That's great - but people want to be listed in DMOZ because it's supposed to be the END ALL to BEAT ALL of Directories. Because it's supposed to be HAND PICKED... Because it's not SPAM - and it's not PAID. Because - if you are listed at DMOZ - you have a better chance of better rankings, better clients - and people know you exist in a better fashion. (at least that is the concept of many webmasters - both in the gambling industry and out of it.)

Very true, but completely irrelevant here, because DMOZ is not a business and does not serve "customers", just people all over the world who wish to use the directory free of charge.

Click to expand...

True - but DMOZ has become something more than just someone's background. And it's time for DMOZ to realize that. It's time for DMOZ to realize that while it is a volunteer function it does and can have effect on Search Engines and other directories - and because DMOZ does serve those people - it IS a business.

Thank you for your time in responding.

But what do you think...

Do you think the Editors in the Gambling Categories ARE actually doing their appropriate time as they are "contracted" to do?

We - the people watching, do not think so.

And - what do you think about the Category of GAMBLING BLOGS - suggestion?

Is it a doable suggestion and would DMOZ be interested in implementing it?

I personally do see a valid need for it... And not just because my site is such a site. That was what originally gave me the interest - but I have since stretched my interest to other webmasters and other blog owners. So it's not a purely selfish motive --- (only half selfish - :angel

Again - thanks for any and all replies.

WW

makrhod · Apr 5, 2009

Do you think the Editors in the Gambling Categories ARE actually doing their appropriate time as they are "contracted" to do?

Did you read my reply? I explained that we are all volunteers who build and improve the directory as a hobby. We are not "contracted" to do anything, and there are no time requirements at all.
If an editor does not make at least one edit every 4 months their account closes automatically, but they can request reinstatement if they wish.
Other than that, it is perfectly OK to spend as much or as little time as we wish, just as you are free to decide how to spend your own relaxation time.

Please do not make the common mistake of thinking we "work" for you, because we do not, and therefore we are under no obligation to perform as you wish. We do not tell you how to spend your leisure time, so please extend us the same courtesy.

WagerWitch · Apr 5, 2009

makrhod said:
Did you read my reply? I explained that we are all volunteers who build and improve the directory as a hobby. We are not "contracted" to do anything, and there are no time requirements at all.
If an editor does not make at least one edit every 4 months their account closes automatically, but they can request reinstatement if they wish.
Other than that, it is perfectly OK to spend as much or as little time as we wish, just as you are free to decide how to spend your own relaxation time.

Please do not make the common mistake of thinking we "work" for you, because we do not, and therefore we are under no obligation to perform as you wish. We do not tell you how to spend your leisure time, so please extend us the same courtesy.

I do understand that. Honestly... I do.

Maybe we - as a general society, expect more from DMOZ than what is available?

Four Months? That's incredibly a long time.

Don't you - as an active editor, believe that if you volunteer to do something - that you should probably do it?

I, personally, try not to take on jobs that I cannot perform. Because when it does happen that you cannot do your job - it leaves an discomfort in everyone involved.

Perhaps - as I said, the general public expects DMOZ to be something more than what it is?

Therefore we shouldn't expect our submissions to be read.
Therefore we shouldn't hope to be placed.
Therefore submitting is a waste of time.
Therefore DMOZ is not kept up to date and is not a reliable resource.

For some reason, I just don't see that above listing of "THEREFORE"s to be appropriate for what I believe DMOZ is supposed to be.

Maybe we, the general public - have unrealistic views of what a DMOZ Editor should do?

I don't know.

What I do know is that I have a multitude of people - within the Gambling Industry Category - who have all said that they have submitted to DMOZ - and that they have not been listed, have not received emails, and basically have been ignored.

Then why does DMOZ have a submission page?

Why does DMOZ not say: Sorry No One is Home - IF we FEEL like we want to Open your Submission Request, we will. If not - we might just discard it, who knows?

You say it's not a business - but I think - in underlying terms that it is.

And if the Editors in this "business" -- that is not a business -- are not doing anything - where are all those submissions... You know - the ones that weren't really necessary - because the Editor - who isn't doing anything already trashed them all?

I think - then - if the Editors are not doing anything then what reason do they exist?

I don't think you work for me.

Not at all.

Nor do I think that DMOZ should list my page... (well - ok if you want to, you don't have to twist my arm - LOL!)

Nor do I think that ALL editors in ALL categories do NOTHING.

I think that the Gambling Category probably gets spammed a million times a day - and that being an editor in this category probably is an overwhelming job.

I think that if someone is overwhelmed and is unable to perform - then perhaps someone should NOTIFY the appropriate people that nothing is changing - or that no one is getting their submissions looked at, acknowledged or placed.

Otherwise - DMOZ is non-functional - at least in this area.

Keep in mind - the big BUZZWORD in Google or SEO - is GET placement in DMOZ.

So you have people "looking up to" DMOZ.

Right?

So there is an expectation - both of the viewers - and of the websites wishing to be placed. Correct?

In my very humble opinion - that of someone who is NOT an editor - and who does NOT know what it takes to place links in a directory on DMOZ...

In this particular instance, I personally feel as though the categories are being ignored.

I personally feel DMOZ should advise the public that submissions probably will not get looked at and that no-one will get back to them.

I know that coming here, personally to submit (over the years) and being ignored, is frustrating.

I mean - getting a "YOUR SITE STINKS - WE WILL NOT POST THIS KIND OF JUNK" on DMoZ - GO AWAY and NEVER TRY SUBMITTING AGAIN" would be better than hoping someone will maybe post you someday in the future.

Would I offer to be an editor in this category --- Sure. But I don't know that I could be unbiased.

I do know however, that IF I were to be a volunteer - I would put in at least 5 hours a week to do something that I KNOW people are spending hard earned time and effort into - by trying to get placed in a Directory that is referred to as the Directory Google or other Search Engines Rely on.

Otherwise - I wouldn't bother to volunteer.

Anyhow - thanks for listening to my rant.

pvgool · Apr 5, 2009

WagerWitch said:
Hi DMOZ folks and readers.

I have several things I would like to discuss, and felt that this was an appropriate place to post this discussion to.

Hi WagerWich, welcome. I'll try to provide some understanding about waht DMOZ intends to do. Although I suspect you might not like the answers as they will not match what you want DMOZ to be.

I am interested in the GAMBLING FIELD entries. Before you shake your head because you do not appreciate this topic - please be aware that this IS a topic that a LARGE population around the world appreciates and actively uses. And it is deserving of inclusion in an ONLINE DIRECTORY.

Yes, like any subject it deserves a place in a directory. And in DMOZ it has.

Because I am involved in Gambling Affiliations and the Online Gambling Industry - this is my hobby and my work online.

OK. Here is one of the big issues with the gambling industry. DMOZ will not list affiliate sites. We will only list those sites that offer the real unique product/service. All sites that are affiliates which are suggested to DMOZ are seen as spam by us.
Sites we will list are:
- those that provide the product/service
- sites with independent information about the industry (but most of the sites that pretend to provide information are in reality just there to send visitoirs through affiliate links to the real sites - we don't like those sites)

Most of them felt that they were ignored or treated as though they were "spam" or not worthy for inclusion.

And they probably are right. Most of the gambling related sites are not worth a listing. My guess, around 95 to 99% of all suggested gambling sites.

I, too, have found an inability to be placed, and have found that my submissions were ignored - with no email regarding placement or lack thereof.

Correct. We will not send emails to peopel who suggested websites.

And even more of us have tried contacting the editors in those fields, with NO RESPONSE (in fact, the links to email the editors DO NOT work.)

Correct. We advise the editors not to answer such emails.
The links works, it just often gives an error message. But despite the message the email is delivered.

To me, this suggests that the editors are not working, or are ignoring their volunteer work.

No, there are just no editors interested in 'working' in the gambling categories. There are many more much interesting subjects that do not get masses of spam suggested to them.

So - what can we - as submission people do to provoke DMOZ to actually do something about it?

No, there is absolutely nothing you can do.

How can we complain that we are NOT being entered?

You can't. From DMOZ

Please recognize that making the ODP a useful resource requires us to exercise broad editorial discretion in determining the content and structure of the directory. That discretion extends (but is not limited) to what sites to include, where in the directory sites are placed, whether and when to include more than one link to a site, when deep linking is appropriate, and the content of the title and description of the site. In addition, a site's placement in the directory is subject to change or deletion at any time at our sole discretion. You should not rely on any aspect of a site's inclusion in the directory. Please understand that an editor's exercise of discretion may not always treat all submissions equally

Without being told that our entries are being viewed and it could take forever?

Not forever but certainly years.

And yet - we see some sites that should NOT be listed.

Please report these sites in the appropriate thread within "Quality Control Feedback"
http://www.resource-zone.com/forum/index.php?showforum=12

I believe that DMOZ should practice FAIR techniques and be responsive [/B]--- I mean - customer service is important, regardless of what kind of online business you are.

see my previous quote "Please understand that an editor's exercise of discretion may not always treat all submissions equally"
Sure customer service is important. In theory we don't have customers. In practive the people who come near being 'customers' are the people searching for websites.
People suggesting websites certainy are not our customers or users.

WagerWitch said:
ROFLMAO - I would volunteer - but I think that I would be --- well - how do you say it... Uhm a little biased. Or a lot biased.

Click to expand...

Then it is better not to apply.

That's great - but don't you think it's a little odd that so many people would be trying to get listed - only to not be listed?

Click to expand...

Ehh. But DMOZ does not have any option where you can try to get listed.
You can only suggest a site. Suggesting means: "Hi, I think I have found a website that I think is worth a listing." An editor will chech if your thoughts were correct and list the site. But if you thought wrong it won't be listed.

In fact for there to be little to no change in these specific categories? Something we've all been paying attention to? (which is why I'm bringing it to your attention)

Click to expand...

Most probably this means that no editor is interested in 'working' in these categories. That's no problem. They are working in other parts of the directory and as a whole DMOZ will grow and improve.

That's great - but people want to be listed in DMOZ because it's supposed to be the END ALL to BEAT ALL of Directories.
Because - if you are listed at DMOZ - you have a better chance of better rankings, better clients - and people know you exist in a better fashion. (at least that is the concept of many webmasters - both in the gambling industry and out of it.)

Click to expand...

What they suppose DMOZ to be is not the reality.
Sorry. But we are not going to chance DMOZ to match their expectations.

but DMOZ has become something more than just someone's background. And it's time for DMOZ to realize that. It's time for DMOZ to realize that while it is a volunteer function it does and can have effect on Search Engines and other directories

Click to expand...

Yes, we know it has an effect. But to be honest. We don't care. That effect may be small or it may be huge. Whatever is the case it won't influence what we are doing.

Do you think the Editors in the Gambling Categories ARE actually doing their appropriate time as they are "contracted" to do?

Click to expand...

Yes.
The answer is yes because no editor is contracted to do anything, and certainly not within a certain timeframe, at all.
Editors are given the privilege to work in certain categories (one or more). They may spend as much time as they themself want. The only thing we insist on is that when they do something they will be following the DMOZ guidelines. That's all.

And - what do you think about the Category of GAMBLING BLOGS - suggestion?

Click to expand...

If there are enough weblogs about gambling that are worth listing such a category might be created.
First we need to have these blogs in our system and than we will create the category. Not the other way round.

WagerWitch · Apr 5, 2009

Hi WagerWich, welcome. I'll try to provide some understanding about waht DMOZ intends to do. Although I suspect you might not like the answers as they will not match what you want DMOZ to be.

That is quite probably the best answer I have EVER seen.

OK. Here is one of the big issues with the gambling industry. DMOZ will not list affiliate sites. We will only list those sites that offer the real unique product/service. All sites that are affiliates which are suggested to DMOZ are seen as spam by us.
Sites we will list are:
- those that provide the product/service
- sites with independent information about the industry (but most of the sites that pretend to provide information are in reality just there to send visitoirs through affiliate links to the real sites - we don't like those sites)

Again - I can't be unbiased.

I have to explain:

I operate a blog. I offer casino bonuses - in return I get AFFILIATE links.
BUT - I also offer reviews, gambling information, Industry tid-bits, cartoons by professional artists - etc. ad infinitum.

But going to my page MOST people enter looking for bonuses and then stay because they enjoy the company.

So it's promoted as bonuses in Google and other places. AND IF you go to it on a day where I made 5 posts about bonuses - you might think it was ONLY a gambling Affiliate page -- IF THE ONLY POST OR PAGE YOU LOOKED AT WAS ON THE VERY TOP.

So with that said - I KNOW what you mean by SPAM in this industry. It's EVERYWHERE.

But - a LOT of people in this industry also offer MORE than just affiliate links - just like me.

They offer games - they offer insightful reviews - they offer commentary and fun polls and more.

They are not all the CUTAWAY-EVERYONE IS AN AFFILIATE same layout page.

And yet - they are treated as if they are.

There is a distinct difference.

AND -- if you don't allow gambling affiliate stuff - yet you allow GOOGLE ADSENSE or Commission Junction sites - that kind of feels like a --- how do you say it...

Ahhh -- I'm sorry...

I feel like I am trying to plead my case to you - because we, as a group, feel that we are being kept out of a private club.

And that club offers better SEO assistance.

Yanno?

I hate to be a bother - and I TRULY do appreciate your reading all of my rhetorical comments - and I'm very appreciative of your replies - they do make sense --- but they did disillusion me about DMOZ.

Anyhow - again - thank you for your time and effort in responding.

Maybe you could offer a check box group for certain categories that would filter out for your Editors:

1) Do you offer Affiliate links?
2) Do you offer reviews?
3) Do you have other content besides Affiliate links?
4) What type of content is it? __________________________
5) What percentage do banners take of your site?

etc. etc.

??

Take care folks - I'll check back in on this thread.

AGAIN - thanks for taking the time.

pvgool · Apr 5, 2009

> Don't you - as an active editor, believe that if you volunteer to do something - that you should probably do it?
Yes. I volunteered to spend as much time as I like to build the directory.
Editors do not volunteer to review suggested sites.
Editors do not volunteer to do things within a certain timeframe.

> Perhaps - as I said, the general public expects DMOZ to be something more than what it is?
Correct. But it is not the genaral public, just the webmasters/website owners.

> Therefore we shouldn't expect our submissions to be read.
Correct, you shouldn't
> Therefore we shouldn't hope to be placed.
Correct, you shouldn't
> Therefore submitting is a waste of time.
Incorrect for sites we want to list.
Correct for sites we don't want to list
> Therefore DMOZ is not kept up to date and is not a reliable resource.
Incorrect and correct.
With the enormous amounts of websites of which the largest part is not listable in DMOZ it is impossible for any directory to keep up-to-date. There will always be categories that will not be lisiting all websites that could be listed. It is also not the intention to list all websites, not even to list all websites that are listable.
Imagine you are one of our users (the people looking for websites/information). You would like to play poker online. In DMOZ you will find 232 sites about this subject. Varying from sites were you can play poker to sites that offer help about the rules and how to become a better player. Does it matter that a few sites are not listed. No. You have found what you were looking for.

> Maybe we, the general public - have unrealistic views of what a DMOZ Editor should do?
Correct.
So chance your perception and everything will be OK.

> Then why does DMOZ have a submission page?
We don't. It is called Suggestion.

> If not - we might just discard it, who knows?
Not correct. Suggestion will never be discarded. They will stay in the system until they are reviewed.

> Keep in mind - the big BUZZWORD in Google or SEO - is GET placement in DMOZ.
It is not our problem that these people have wrong ideas.
Both DMOZ and Google have stated many times that being listed in DMOZ will have no special effect on Google (or any other search engine).
People just don't want to listed to those who knwo the truth. Instead they keep believing myths and spreading them amongst themself.

> So you have people "looking up to" DMOZ.
> Right?
I don't know.
I just know that there is nothing to look up to.

What do you prefer.
An editor that lists one new site every 2 months or no editor at all.
We always welcome new editors. But they must be unbiased, honest and must follow the guidelines. It does not matter how much time they are willing to give to DMOZ they are all welcome. But not in all categories. Some categories (like gambling) are not appropriate for new editors.

WagerWitch · Apr 5, 2009

Thank you - you have definitely cleared up some informational insight for me.

I will pass on the information to others.

I did not realize that DMOZ was NOT a tool that Google did not use --- (most of us have been under the assumption that if you are NOT listed in DMOZ - you will Never Rank High in Google). (kind of an unusual thing - I understand it because I rank fair to high - without inclusion, and above some that are listed in DMOZ - I just assumed ----bad bad bad ---- that those who were above DMOZ and me were using BlackHat SEO practices.)

Also you have clarified the Standing DMOZ has on placement SUGGESTION and not SUBMISSION.

Also you have clarified what DMOZ actually is -which leaves me to wonder - why has it become such a RUMOR that DMOZ is what Google references?

This is the reason MOST people come here to submit...

And in retrospect - while it is a greedy/selfish motive - has that rumor then created a higher base of "readers" for DMOZ?

The Website Owners/Operators - those ARE the General public. We are the ones who use much more of the Web than your casual user. Hence, we're also more of a pain in the rump, I am sure. Your average computer user who walks in the park through the internet - has no idea how to get to DMOZ. (in my very humble opinion) and may not understand the hierarchy of the subject matter. (Note please that I do not just speak of my topic/category alone).

I don't know if that makes sense - but I'm trying to explain my thought flow.

Keep in mind - you've just obliterated my opinion of what DMOZ is - and I've had this opinion for the last what... almost decade?

I see your need for editors --- and you are looking for non-biased library type people who want to categorize, move, implement and structure a REFERENCE database - like a library --- and not... uhm.... like --- a YELLOW PAGES book.

To the rest of the world - DMOZ is like a Yellow Pages book - maybe that's the association I'm looking for.

But you, as an editor, are saying that DMOZ is just a reference tool - that is updated occasionally by folks who put in whatever time they feel like - whenever they feel like it.

Well - I guess that clarifies it for me a bit nicely.

Thank you tremendously for your time - for your efforts at clarifying things.

You should - perhaps Suggest --- a better advisement on the SUGGESTION page. Something like this:

1) Listing in DMOZ does NOT provide higher or better ranking in Search Engines like Google, etc.
2) DMOZ is NOT a search engine providing updated ranking.
3) Suggestions given to DMOZ may not be viewed - and probably may not be placed - so repeated suggestions over the years are probably useless.
4) DMOZ is not structured for Webmaster Submissions - it is, instead created as a resource directory and the editors of categories choose what is inside those categories based on specific criteria.

Etc.

Because that would save a LOT of time and effort of honest hard working people who are just trying to do their jobs and getting placed properly within what they "BELIEVE" is a proper "search engine" - which DMOZ is NOT.

Sincerely - and with utmost gratitude - I appreciate your time - and your discussion.

It gives me much different insight into what DMOZ is - and will effectively stop me from submitting/suggesting a site... Because I understand now, that it is a useless procedure because - if I am to be included into the directory - it will be because an editor has chosen my site to be listed and not because it was suggested.

And about me personally being an editor - like I said... I could not be an editor - I would be entirely too biased. I know too many people online - and I'm not sure if I could NOT list a "friend" who begged me to place their site on here... And that would clutter what it is that DMOZ is trying to do.

But - I will say - I can't stand SPAM sites - and those would be completely removed without compunction. If there was no differentiation on that site - it would NOT be included. LOL! I'm very strict about that.

Anyhow - again - very many thanks.

WagerWitch

hutcheson · Apr 5, 2009

The community constantly discusses the form of its public self-description. I think we can do much better than your proposal -- but I agree we haven't achieved the optimum description yet.

WagerWitch · Apr 5, 2009

Well - let me know - maybe I can help with that.

I do marketing - and unfortunately, a part of dealing with the public is, in fact, learning how to MARKET yourself effectively.

Whether you sell something or not - Marketing is a usable force for presenting yourself in the best light.

Customer Service is also an appropriate tool to use.

My suggestions:

1) Brainstorm amongst your editors - the ones who are active and understand the actual concept of DMOZ
ask:
(1a) What is DMOZ
(1b) What does DMOZ want to attract Sumbissions for
(1c) What could be done to change the public perception
(1d) What is expected of the DMOZ editors
(1e) How much does the public opinion matter
(1f) How often should a category be updated
(1g) Should more than one editor be placed in each category/sub cat.
(1h) Should there be oversight Editors to assist, or pick up the slack
(1i) Should there be graphics or postings to assist the public to understand what DMOZ is

and so on.

I do wish you all the best of luck.

hutcheson · Apr 5, 2009

"Should" questions generally beg the question, "Who'll bell the cat?"

The ODP community has a standard answer: whoever thinks it should be belled badly enough to do the job.

So, in practical purposes, thousands of editors daily have more than a half-million categories, from which they choose "what they should do today".

Their answer may not always be considered "good enough" by everyone. But it is by definition "good enough for anyone who really cares--that is, cares enough to do something about it." And for years now it has been "the best answer available". It's also the answer that attracted volunteers to THIS project.

If there is another answer, another community would have to be built to implement it. If you think you have the answer, you're welcome to start on it.

WagerWitch · Apr 5, 2009

LOL - Hutcheson - Like I said - I would be willing to help out - but not anywhere near editing... Because I honestly don't think I couldn't be biased in the region that I understand.

But if there is a need for marketing brainstorming --- 1000s of ideas - Ask me - and I'll help.

Totally understand that DMOZ is fully a matter of volunteerism.

And that's actually a good thing.

The bad thing is the public perception on what they think it is - and what it is used for.

pvgool · Apr 6, 2009

1) Brainstorm amongst your editors - the ones who are active and understand the actual concept of DMOZ
ask:

> (1a) What is DMOZ
see: http://www.dmoz.org/about.html and http://www.dmoz.org/help/geninfo.html
> (1b) What does DMOZ want to attract Sumbissions for
To give the editors a resource for finding sites they could list.
> (1c) What could be done to change the public perception
We try this at forums (not only this on) and AOL tries to at the Blog http://blog.dmoz.org/
> (1d) What is expected of the DMOZ editors
see: http://www.dmoz.org/help/become.html
> (1e) How much does the public opinion matter
Depends on who you call "the public".
Our users: yes we care
Complaining webmasters: not much
> (1f) How often should a category be updated
There is and should be no specific time.
see also http://www.dmoz.org/help/become.html#time
> (1g) Should more than one editor be placed in each category/sub cat.
This is already possible as
see http://www.dmoz.org/help/become.html#apply
> (1h) Should there be oversight Editors to assist, or pick up the slack
there are, they are called EditAll, CatMod, Meta and Admin each with there own privileges and resposibilities
see under http://www.dmoz.org/guidelines/ for explantions
but they are volunteers also and will not pick up the slack unless they decide to do so
> (1i) Should there be graphics or postings to assist the public to understand what DMOZ is
again, we post at forums and there is the blog.
And ofcourse all the pages with explanation that are available for everybody to read. I have linked to some of them in the answers. Through them you can find all other pages. Just read them.

> But if there is a need for marketing brainstorming
Sorry no. Marketing is not something editors do. That is up to AOL.

> The bad thing is the public perception on what they think it is - and what it is used for.
So why complain to the editors.
Complain to the "public" (whoever that might be) and change their perception. A good starting point would be yourself. Understand what DMOZ is and tell all you friends.

Sometimes it is easier to understand what DMOZ is not that to understand what DMOZ is
- DMOZ is not a listing service
- DMOZ does not provide any service to webmasters / website owners
- You can not get your site listed in DMOZ (only the content on the site can get the site listed)
- DMOZ is not a business
- DMOZ has no intention to promote websites or to influence how these websites can be found through search engines and other sites, any effect that DMOZ might have in these fields is purely coincidental
- DMOZ has no intention to be a complete directory

Our goal is to make the directory as useful as possible for our users, not to have the directory include all (or even most) of the sites that could possibly be listed or serve as a promotional tool for the entities listed.

WagerWitch · Apr 6, 2009

Thanks PVGool - I'll do my best to pass on the info to folks...

I think that's a good start.

And again - thanks for taking the time to write that out to me - again.

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