Category Updated/Listing Removed? http://www.ccnphawaii.com/

Hi, I'm not sure if this is the correct forum for this inquiry. I wanted to inquire about my website http://www.ccnphawaii.com that was previously listed in http://dmoz.org/Shopping/Crafts/Toiletries until the category was updated on January 3, 2003.

Can I inquire as to why my listing was removed? My husband is an editor and suggested that I inquire here at the resource zone.

Thanks.

Re: Category Updated/Listing Removed?

Your site was judged to be more of a commercial site than a crafter's site, thus more suited to Shopping/Health/Beauty/Bath_and_Body/Soap. After having been listed there for a while, it was then moved up a level, in Shopping/Health/Beauty/Bath_and_Body, as you offer more than just soaps, ending up in the unrevieweds queue of this latter category. It's now listed there.

A copy of your site has been listed also in Regional/North_America/United_States/Hawaii/Kauai/Localities/Kapaa/Business_and_Economy since the company is located in Kapaa.

Re: Category Updated/Listing Removed?

Your site was judget to be more of a commercial site than a crafter's site

Click to expand...

Could this be due to the fact that I market my products under a company name rather than my name? I'm not sure that I completely understand this as there are quite a few sites listed in the Crafts/Toiletries category that are very similar to mine. There are also listings for companies within this category.

Thank you for your quick reply, ettore.

Re: Category Updated/Listing Removed?

A brief look at your site looks to me that its primary purpose is to sell bathroom orientated products - that is probably the reason why it was moved.

Re: Category Updated/Listing Removed?

Thanks beebware, I'm just wondering why selected sites were moved and others were not. As an example http://handmade-soap.com is a fairly large company with multiple retail outlets across the state and is still listed within the Crafts category. http://www.soapfairy.com appears to be similar to my own site. If the current listings within a category are being reviewed why not all of the listings?

Thanks again,

Re: Category Updated/Listing Removed?

A brief look at your site looks to me that its primary purpose is to sell bathroom orientated products

Click to expand...

Yes, it is and I believe that this is the primary purpose/focus of almost all of the sites listed within this shopping subcategory.

After reviewing the category description it seems that there are a number of listings within this category as well as the Soap subcategory that should also be moved to a more appropriate category, as they do not "represent the individual crafter."

Viewing one of the listing from the Toiletries category, Body Encounters, I have to wonder why this listing is still in this category? It seems that this site doesn't meet the basic guidelines for shopping or the focus of this category. Viewing one of the listings from the soap subcat, the "individual crafter's" description of their own website reads "....is a manufacturer and nationwide distributor of high-quality natural soaps, lotions and other items ..." and all of the links direct the user to another site.

After comparing Google's directory listings with the current ODP listings, I ask why only selected listings were reviewed and moved to other categories (I'm sure that you have a better view of this)?

Thanks again,

Re: Category Updated/Listing Removed?

The editor of the category in question is in the process of reviewing sites and moving the appropriate subcat within Shopping/Health/Beauty/Bath_and_Body (be it the main category or handmade soaps) as one of the top editors of crafts noticed some sites are better served by a listing in Bath and Body.

Your site is not the only one that has been/will be moved. I believe the editor in that area is still working on this, and this is an ongoing project. Because we are all volunteer, often things aren't done "immediately" but rather as soon as our schedule permits. While it seems like yours may be the only one affected, I assure you it is not.

Re: Category Updated/Listing Removed?

kokopeli, thanks for taking the time to reply to my inquiry, I appreciate it. I know that you guys are volunteers and edit as time permits.

>>one of the top editors of crafts noticed some sites...

I guess this top editor didn't notice the site that retails chimes, clocks, love stuff, fountains, spa booties and shiatsu massage listed above my site. If a top editor had noticed "some" sites wouldn't it stand to reason that all of the listings would be reviewed? It is a fairly small category.

Maybe that wasn't a fair asssesment on my part, but there is the appearance of "shotgun" editing. I can't see how or why sites above and below the one I just described were reviewed/moved and this one remains. It's obvious from this site's description (aromatherapy, candles, neck and eye pillows, scent diffusers, self tan and more) that it would be better suited in another category. At least apply the same guidelines to all of the sites listed within this category.

Thanks again for your time.

Re: Category Updated/Listing Removed?

Editing isn't necessarily done in alphabetical order so the fact that the one above yours hasn't been touched yet doesn't mean that it won't be or that is was overlooked.

Re: Category Updated/Listing Removed?

Thanks for your reply motsa, my apologies for the assumption that the directory listings appeared in alphabetical order when editing. I just hope that the remaining sites are reviewed in the same manner as those that were recently moved.

Aloha,

Re: Category Updated/Listing Removed?

Just to clear: They appear in alphabetical order. But in many cases its a lot easier to process themm by topics. If you create subcategories for example, you create the first category, pick all sites that fit in and after that go on with the next subcategory.

Re: Category Updated/Listing Removed?

Thanks windharp, I still don't quite understand how the editor decided to initially review and move only a few selected sites to a different category. If the listings are displayed alphabetically, then this suggests more so that this was arbitrary on the editors part. This is a rather small category that could be reviewed relatively easily. I've pointed out a couple of obvious sites that should be moved (based on the category description), and I initially chose those listings based on their current descriptions. Looking at the descriptions of the sites that were moved I see nothing to suggest that those sites needed to be reviewed.

I am an individual crafter marketing my handmade products and was listed in a category who's description is relevant to the content of my website. I find it difficult to accept that this was an unbiased editorial decision to move my site to a category that better describes my content.

What I most take issue with is the fact that the same guidelines are not being applied to all of the current listings within the category.

The editor's decision to move my site was based on their review of my index page, a page of my handmade soaps and my contact information page in which a total time of 7 seconds was logged. If this editor is so adept that they can review a site that was already accepted and determine that it is better suited elsewhere in a matter of seconds, it should have been a breeze for this person to review the entire category. Which is obvious to myself that this was not the case.

Thanks once again.

A Hui Ho!
(until we meet again)

Re: Category Updated/Listing Removed?

Debbie,

We do lots and lots of quality checks on our sites (yes, I know it doesn't always appear that way, but we do). Say I have a category with 50 sites - it's already been pointed out to me that some would probably be better placed in a different category. So I open a window to see the category as the public sees it. I browse through, first checking to make sure the titles and descriptions meet the guidelines. I then make a guess at which ones need to be moved, based on their current descriptions. So I open my edit window, and I go to the first site that I'm pretty sure needs to be moved. I open the site, take a quick glance, and think "sure enough, it needs to go", so I move it, after making sure the title and description are still good. I do this with maybe a handful of sites. I'm then left with sites that are either 1) staying or 2) need to be reviewed in depth. I go back, visit all the sites that I'm pretty sure are staying, and rewrite the titles and descriptions if necessary. This leaves me with the ones that will take longer. It's at that point that things slow down. Many times we find that a site raises some questions or issues - not because of the site, but because of the guidelines and rules that we work within. So I make a post in a forum to discuss this with other editors. While this discussion is ongoing, I'm not going to touch the site(s) in question - what would be the point? It wouldn't be good for the directory for me to move the site(s) to unreviewed during this process, so they sit where they are until I have an agreement from my fellow editors about what to do with the site(s).

I'm not saying this is what is happening to the category you refer to, I'm just sharing the process with you. For the most part, editors care about the directory, and work to do what is right for it. If you suspect there is abuse, there are mechanisms to handle that. Otherwise, rest assured that yours is simply another site in a world of millions - there is no grand conspiracy, and we do our best to do the right thing - it may not always appear that way, but we do.

HTH <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" alt="" />

Re: Category Updated/Listing Removed?

rwkat, thanks for your informative reply. I do hope that you can appreciate my perspective. I doubt that "abuse" is involved and realize that the editors for the most part are conscientious.

If you have the time, take a moment and review the examples I listed and I'm sure you'll see why it still appears from my perspective that the guidelines are not being applied in a consistent manner in this particular category.

Thanks,

Re: Category Updated/Listing Removed?

The voice of experience says, "a reorg of a thousand categories starts with one site move."

Every editor has their own way of prioritizing. So long as every step an editor takes is in the right direction, and no step leaves the directory looking worse for long, we're happy to have the help. The _order_ of the steps taken doesn't have to be explained, let alone justified, to anyone.

Re: Category Updated/Listing Removed?

I am not the person who moved the site, although I've been involved in several areas of reorganization in related categories--which is why I have been involved to some degree on what is taking place. I believe that some of why you are upset is that you would like your site listed where it was, and it seems unfair other sites remain. I do not have a commercial site, but I think I can understand your point of view. I do not believe, however, this is a case of abuse, "shotgun editing" or an example of someone ignoring the guidelines. I believe it is an example of a newer editor accepting some sites, which were submitted to the incorrect category in the first place, that may have been better placed elsewhere. This was noticed, and is in the process of being corrected. As hutcheson states, "Every editor has their own way of prioritizing." The important part is that it is being done, and the sites you have cited above will be re-evaluated with the rest.

I believe the reason your site was moved out of crafts, is because of the statements made on your site. It appears to be commercial and not work of a specific crafter. No where on your site does it refer to any specific crafter. Rather, your site is full of "our" and appears to be a company. This can be hard to evaluate, so one must go by what is stated on the site. Specific crafters usually have names listed, or at the very least refer to their products under the term of "I". If I were the editor in questions, I would also evaluate your site to not qualify as a crafter site. Due to the combination of soap and bath products, I would place it where it is currently listed. Should this change in the future, and the information reflects this on your site, you are welcome to submit an update to the category where it is listed and it will be re-evaluated.

In the meantime, there is no point in you taking the time to evaluate the other sites in the category your site used to be listed in, as it is in the process of being corrected by the editors involved. <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" alt="" />

Re: Category Updated/Listing Removed?

&gt;&gt;The important part is that it is being done, and the sites you have cited above will be re-evaluated with the rest.

Hi kokopeli, thanks for taking the time to reply. I'm not asking that any editor justify their actions or trying to imply that they have to answer to anyone. I am just asking that there be some consistency in applying the guidelines to all of the listings in the category.

Thank you and the rest of the editors that were courteous enough to take the time to reply as well. I appreciate the points you made and hope that the category editors will follow through as you suggest.

Thanks again,

Re: Category Updated/Listing Removed?

Debbie:

I am the editor in question. I just want to assure you that your site was not singled out, I just have not had time to attend to all of the sites in that category at this time. I moved as many sites that stood out as more commercial sites to me as I could when I initially took over the category and was asked to take a look at the listings. In time I hope that we can get the whole category cleaned up and try to make sure all sites are in the best place for their products and for surfers to find them easily, which is above all our goal. If you have any questions I'd be happy to answer them. I hope this helps to clear things up for you.

Re: Category Updated/Listing Removed?

Hi gazer, thanks for the reply. I hope that you are not offended by any of my comments. My only intent was that the editors apply the same standards to all of the sites in this category. It did not appear that this was the case when I initially posted my inquiry.

Re: Category Updated/Listing Removed?

No problem Debbie. You can be sure that I will give each site equal attention as soon as my schedule allows.