did i understand right...?

hy together...

i'm really new to dmoz and would like to ask if i understood correctly what i rode?

As websitebuilder/webcontentgenerator i can suggest my site here in dmoz.org.

i have some rules to follow when editing my candidature and will get certainly no help. (because there are too many asking for)

i won't get feedback if i got registered (as i can check it up myself)

i won't get feedback if i have been denied; for any reason (inadequate content, wrong cadidature...)

Summarized:

applying for an entry in dmoz.org is like

talking to a stranger.
if i speak english and the stranger understands only german, he will not tell me that he's germanspeaking, but he will stay mute. he would only give an answer if i would say german words.
so the clue is to find out what language he speaks... (this is the formfactor)

after that, i will have to persuade him that i'm a fine and gentle person.
he won't speak with me until i find out in what he's interested in.
he will only accept me if i am likeable to him. (this is the contentfactor)

the difficulty about the whole thing is have these two factors matching at the time:

if i say something interesting in french; he will not respond.
if i say something unintersting in german; he will not respond.

am i right?

PS: i dont want to offend anybody with this post. but as i am a very visual person i have to ask this way...

As websitebuilder/webcontentgenerator i can suggest my site here in dmoz.org.

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You can't suggest your site here, this is the Resource Zone, you have to submit it here:
http://dmoz.org/

i have some rules to follow when editing my candidature and will get certainly no help. (because there are too many asking for)

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The rules are our Guidelines. We make them available to the public:
http://dmoz.org/guidelines/

You can get general help about selecting a category or writing an ODP compliant title and description, but no, we will not review your site and advise you about it's specific content.

i won't get feedback if i got registered (as i can check it up myself) won't get feedback if i have been denied; for any reason (inadequate content, wrong cadidature...)

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That's correct.

applying for an entry in dmoz.org is like

talking to a stranger.
if i speak english and the stranger understands only german, he will not tell me that he's germanspeaking, but he will stay mute. he would only give an answer if i would say german words.
so the clue is to find out what language he speaks... (this is the formfactor)

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No, I would say that we're not interested in speaking at all because what you're asking for is something we don't provide. You want help in getting your site listed, but, we are not a listing service for site owners.

What we do is allow the public to suggest websites to us as a help to us in building good collections (categories) of sites that a web surfer would find useful. Not all websites have unique content, so not all websites are accepted.

after that, i will have to persuade him that i'm a fine and gentle person.
he won't speak with me until i find out in what he's interested in.
he will only accept me if i am likeable to him. (this is the contentfactor)

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We will like you very much if you have unique content on your site, .

PS: i dont want to offend anybody with this post. but as i am a very visual person i have to ask this way...

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I don't find you offensive, you just misunderstand that we don't want every book that is available for the library, we only want books that will add value to the library by having unique information in them that is found in no other book.

Think of the site suggestion process as being a bit like posting a letter to Santa Claus up the chimney (The fire must be lit of course). You don't get a lot of response from him either .

We at least thank you for your suggestion at the end of the transaction.

crowbar said:

You can't suggest your site here, this is the Resource Zone, you have to submit it here:
http://dmoz.org/

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well... thats what i wrote... "here in..."

crowbar said:

The rules are our Guidelines. We make them available to the public:
http://dmoz.org/guidelines/

You can get general help about selecting a category or writing an ODP compliant title and description, but no, we will not review your site and advise you about it's specific content.

That's correct.

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Thanks

crowbar said:

No, I would say that we're not interested in speaking at all because what you're asking for is something we don't provide. You want help in getting your site listed, but, we are not a listing service for site owners.

What we do is allow the public to suggest websites to us as a help to us in building good collections (categories) of sites that a web surfer would find useful. Not all websites have unique content, so not all websites are accepted.

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How did you guess... i think most of the people coming here want to be listed...

crowbar said:

We will like you very much if you have unique content on your site, .

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Okay... that's the point where i wanted you to come...

i tried to suggest a swiss sport content provider... of course there are german and austrian similar sites (even looking like ours (CI/CD)).

But as we are focused on swiss market we furnish specified swiss content, i think we are in some kind unique in delivering this kind of information, so.

now... where is the difference... ? the swiss people coming to your site and looking for swiss sport related information won't find anything...

they will, of course find the german and the austrian sites, but only german and austrian sportsmen will be shown there...

Other question:

let pretend...i build a site about, lets say, an e-mail system.
its based on a new coding technique, has new features, is in somehow revolutionary...

i propose the site by saying; emailsystem, best, new... bla bla...

so you will think ... uhmmm.... we have this already... so we refuse...right?

crowbar said:

I don't find you offensive, you just misunderstand that we don't want every book that is available for the library, we only want books that will add value to the library by having unique information in them that is found in no other book.

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i understand this point ... and this is in somehow quality... by the way... if you would post this statement somewhere at the top... there wouldn't be so many questions.

Because i didn't read somewhere, until now, that my site/information has to be unique to have any chance to be accepted.

let pretend...i build a site about, lets say, an e-mail system.
its based on a new coding technique, has new features, is in somehow revolutionary...

i propose the site by saying; emailsystem, best, new... bla bla...

Click to expand...

You will then be guilty of falling into the trap that most suggesters fall into. You are describing the product, the newest whatever, and discussing its features and benefits (Good Old Marking 101) but you'll have completely missed your target.

We are about websites not about products. What is on the website? What does it contain? What can a surfer find there? What website content is unique?

Case in point, I just listed a dentist's website. The suggested description was all aobut how this dentist was the greatest thing since sliced bread. The description ended up something like:

Describes practice and staff. Explains credit policy, hours of operation and location.

Hope this helps.

Thread will submitters ever [be] able to check status reminds me that spam has turned DMOZ paranoid against helping its potential listees get through "the system". The procedures that are so thoroughly documented here and repeated in length so often are oppressive to the average non-mod, average lay man. Sigh. Oh well, we tried.

To a great degree you are correct.

Greedy spammers and SEO-types who only care for their clients and their rankings have certainly made putting the directory together much more difficult, and it certainly impact what service we can offer to the person suggesting their sites.

It is a problem that is greater than just the ODP. Three of my websites have discussion forums, and self registration is closed on all three. The registration bots have become forum killers. I've had to do the same thing on two of my three photo albums.

As editors, some/many/most of us would love to be able to share the state of a given suggestion. Better yet, we would love it if suggestions were a useful source of sites -- but they are not -- because if they were useful we would attack the suggestion pool with vigor, not with a sense of dread.

You get home from work, you have a nice dinner, spend some time with the spouse and get the kids off to bed. You have an hour to give to editing. You log on and log in. You attack a pool of unreviewed sites. You spend your hour editing and at the end of that timeframe, you have not been able to add a single site to the directory. Not one. How demoralizing is that? How many mroe times are you going to do that before you give up in disgust and find a better way of spending your evening?

xentran said:

How did you guess... i think most of the people coming here want to be listed...

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Sadly, we do not provide a listing service for webmasters. We consider our end user to be the web surfer not the webmaster. Yes, most people visiting these forums are here because they want help getting listed. Sadly few bother to read the Posting Guidlines and miss the point of having these forums.

xentran said:

i tried to suggest a swiss sport content provider... of course there are german and austrian similar sites (even looking like ours (CI/CD)).

But as we are focused on swiss market we furnish specified swiss content, i think we are in some kind unique in delivering this kind of information, so.

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Like spectregunner said, we are interested in the website content not in what your company or organisation offers. If the website has unique content then it stands a good chance, but even if it does and even if it is listable it still needs to wait for an editor to review it before it can appear in the directory and this process can take a very long time.

xentran said:

i understand this point ... and this is in somehow quality... by the way... if you would post this statement somewhere at the top... there wouldn't be so many questions.

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The Posting Guidlines are on the front page of this website and you see them again when you register an account here. If you meant the submission guidlines for ODP then there IS a link to them at the top of the homepage, actually there are two, if you click either the suggest url link or the help link from the homepage it explains exactly how to suggest a new link. Also, when submitting a new website right at the top of the page there is a lengthy bit of text explaining what is requried. We make these things very easy to find and very obvious. The trouble is, as evidenced by the number of people we get here complaining that they haven't been listed yet, people don't bother stopping to read them. Sadly there is little we can do about that except point them in the right direction when they do come here looking for help.

xentran said:

i didn't read somewhere, until now, that my site/information has to be unique to have any chance to be accepted.

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Then like so many others you didn't read the submittion guidelines on the main ODP website before you listed your site. The guidelines are not the usual legal yada yada they are hints and tips on how to give your suggestion the best chance of getting listed.

If you go to The instructions on how to submit a site you will see this paragraph:

http://dmoz.org/add.html said:

We care a great deal about the quality of the ODP. We aren't a search engine and pride ourselves on being highly selective. We don't accept all sites, so please don't take it personally should your site not be accepted. Our goal is to make the directory as useful as possible for our users, not to have the directory include all (or even most) of the sites that could possibly be listed or serve as a promotional tool for the entities listed.

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As I've mentioned before - the main problem is Google. The fact that Google puts so much weight into sites listed in the dmoz directory is what has really caused the SEO spam attack of the dmoz dir. Perhaps this marriage is not so good after all?

I have an issue with the idea that has been thrown out before regarding no need to list two sites in the same category offering the same thing. You see, no matter how qualified one might be with editing content, language, etc. they are not familiar enough with the two products to decide which would truly be better for the people searching this directory.

As the example given above, an email program that uses some new revolutionary system might actually be very beneficial to users and thus worth being found. Sure the site might have some marketing material but that is the whole point so users understand why this system is revolutionary.

Sometimes you need to educate users so they can make an informed decision. For this directory to truly be beneficial I would like to find more than 1 company for a certain topic so I can have a "choice". One mans junk is anothers treasure so some variety is needed.

The editors have always been nice to me here, I can see why they get annoyed at the same ol' questions and complaints over and over again and more importantly they are all giving their time away for free. Well sorta for free, considering that I assume they do it for a reason, most likely because they see it as a hobbie.

Perhaps the true fix for the many complaints around here is too just remove site submissions all together. I've read more than one editor claim that most of the time the editors suggest sites they find on their own and rarely get to site submissions anyway. This whole thing can be improved but for some reasons we are seen as complainers or trouble makers or just SEO guys trying to get our SEO up. Well some of actually care about what dmoz truly means to the internet, the novel idea behind it and how we might like it improved. Yes, just a site owner who would like the same shot as anyone else and would like to know that when I search the directory for things that interest me I might actually find a variety.

Sorry for my rant

Hi Webman

I am afraid you have confused what we mean by unique.

Take two companies in the same town both offering a taxi service and in competition. We would list both because the unique aspect is that they are different companies both offering a real service. I list many manufacturers making essentially the same product - the uniqueness lies in that they all have their own factories, staff, locations etc.

If you have 100 websites offering exactly the same product, we would only want to list the one website of the company who produces the product. Why list all the websites that exist only to obtain a commission from the originators work?

If one of the 100 had modified the product with (say) uniques add-ons or support services then they would probably be listed because they are offering a unique service.

The fact that Google puts so much weight into sites listed in the dmoz directory is what has really caused the SEO spam attack of the dmoz dir. Perhaps this marriage is not so good after all?

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The ODP have no say in how Google or any other search engine uses our data and, in fact, trying to prevent anyone using our data for their purposes in accordance with the license is against our principles. Historically the ODP arouse because search engine results were full of sites that had gamed the system - no matter what you searched for, the results included gambling, porn and similar sites. Once the ODP got going the search engines used it as a starting point. Since then the search engines have developed algorithms that allow them to give better results without relying so much (if at all) on the ODP.

The problem is that many people feel that a website just created for the purpose of Google adverts or containing affiliate links is a unique product, they want their site at No 1 in order to get (note not earn) money.

Back in the early days of the internet, there was less for people to do and projects like the ODP attracted a lot of volunteers who saw the internet as a positive space. Now newcomers to the internet are more likely to be attracted by the 'get-rich-quick' schemes. Legitimate businesses (such as website design companies) are affected in that they need to 'rise above the spam'. The people to resolve this are the search engines.

regards

I have an issue with the idea that has been thrown out before regarding no need to list two sites in the same category offering the same thing. You see, no matter how qualified one might be with editing content, language, etc. they are not familiar enough with the two products to decide which would truly be better for the people searching this directory.

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That's why we have editors to make those kind of calls, . Not everything is cut and dried, and our rules are called Guidelines for a reason, to allow for editor discretion, otherwise we'd call them Rules.

Well sorta for free, considering that I assume they do it for a reason, most likely because they see it as a hobbie.

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That's how most of us think about it, as a hobby. The truth of the matter is that it's one of those things that become quite addictive once you start doing it, like drinking coffee.

Well some of actually care about what dmoz truly means to the internet, the novel idea behind it and how we might like it improved. Yes, just a site owner who would like the same shot as anyone else and would like to know that when I search the directory for things that interest me I might actually find a variety.

Sorry for my rant

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Then, you are in agreement with all of us editors, that's how we see it too. I wouldn't consider that a rant, there's nothing wrong with having an honest opinion (unless you're married, of course) .

Eric-the-Bun said:

Hi Webman

I am afraid you have confused what we mean by unique.

Take two companies in the same town both offering a taxi service and in competition. We would list both because the unique aspect is that they are different companies both offering a real service. I list many manufacturers making essentially the same product - the uniqueness lies in that they all have their own factories, staff, locations etc.

The problem is that many people feel that a website just created for the purpose of Google adverts or containing affiliate links is a unique product, they want their site at No 1 in order to get (note not earn) money.

regards

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Eric - Thanks for the clarification, I hope other editors view things this way. As far as those sites that show up at the top with nothing but links is truly very annoying and I'm all for preventing these type of sites from getting SEO traction.

Crowbar - I'm married indeed but so far I'm able to give my opinion, lets hope it stays that way

It's nice that we can give our opinion here and hopefully a portion of it will be seen as beneficial. I think many of the posters here are just frustrated with the time it takes to get listed or the lack of feedback. Some are probably warranted and others just have bad attitudes but I imagine I'm not the only hard working, small business owner just trying to make a living with a legitimate website and need all the exposure we can get. Sometimes survival can get rough

but I imagine I'm not the only hard working, small business owner just trying to make a living with a legitimate website and need all the exposure we can get. Sometimes survival can get rough

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That is what keeps many editors going, particulary in Regional. There are huge amounts of small business and club sites that are waiting to be listed and only a small proportion can be listed each week. However each one listed gets a boost which they are probably totally unaware of.

This is why it is important for the ODP to be impartial as we cannot list everyone and it is better that the listing process is effectively 'random'. A good site will eventually (in geological time) get listed but the suggestion process does at least mean that, in the areas where the suggestion pool is unspammed, it is ready and waiting rather than having to be found.

Waiting may be hard but it is worst if you feel that others are getting preferential treatment.

regards

BTW you are aware you can suggest once to a topic and once to the regional location where you have your bricks and mortar address listed on your website? Two chances are better than one.

Why Human Review

spectregunner said:

As editors, some/many/most of us would love to be able to share the state of a given suggestion. Better yet, we would love it if suggestions were a useful source of sites -- but they are not -- because if they were useful we would attack the suggestion pool with vigor, not with a sense of dread.

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...sense of dread.

I wrote a great deal in response, but I fear this is not the time or place. suffice it to say that the robots have a weakness my fellow humans, and I would urge you to delight in it. The secret algorithms at goo, hoo and Ms N will never curl up with a good book, they will never steal away into a staircase clutching the dog-eared pages of novel, they will never swell in trembling at a consequential oratory.

The machines, yet, cannot decipher meaning, nor sarcasm, nor wit, nor humor. They cannot see guile, cunning or ruse. They are completely without the ability to sense sincerity, grace or commitment. They know logic but not reason, fact but not truth.

They rip into our work in the millionths of a second, and even demand we alter our human discourse in order to assist them, which is where all manner of evil creeps in from Ye Ole Spammy.

In triumph I say, we must rely on these old and weary humans who look on saving us from the beastly spiders, crawlers and bots...with dread?


I fear with certainty now, that I shall never be approved. LOL

In triumph I say, we must rely on these old and weary humans who look on saving us from the beastly spiders, crawlers and bots...with dread?

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Amen!

Of course, my statement that many editors look upon the submission pool with dread begs the question: where do editors look?

I cannot speak for others, but when I want to look for sites here is what I do:

• I constantly have a notepad with me and as I am out and about, looking at the rear widows of autos, billboards, taxicabs, etc. I jot down URLs.
• I drive my sopuse crazy by constantly picking up advertising flyers and free newspapers/magazines.
• I visit the public library at least one a week and thumb through the periodicals -- especially those tiny, tinly ads in the back that these old eyese can barely read.
• I love chamber of commerce websites - great sources of other sites.
• A lot of the pseudo directories that get submitted are unlistable, but can contain a URL gem or two.
• Like everyone else on the planet, I Google phrases and look through the first 10 pages or so of usually horrible results.
• I constantly ask friends: seen any cool websites lately?
• I look for authority websites, and mine the heck out of them. Same thing for trade association sites.