DMOZ Search does not work

I'd be pleased if someone could help me resolve this issue, as I am certain it affects the whole DMOZ community.

My first question is - Who can I report this problem to?

Let me explain some detail to this issue....

In creating a submission to DMOZ, the guidelines suggest that you search DMOZ first to make sure your site is not included (step 2) before going onto look for an appropriate category to use (Step 3) so that you don't waste people's time.

I have found that the search utility does not function correctly (either in the normal mode or the advanced) and I have tested this on the site - now, before you go off thinking "dumb user" - I'm an IT Consultant with 20 years experience and know all about boolean operators.

Here's my example, please follow this through so that you can understand the issue...

If you manually navigate through DMOZ using this path - Regional/Europe/United_Kingdom/England/Derbyshire/Alfreton

You will get to see 2 of my sites - Alfreton Business Directory and Alfreton News Publishing Service, however to find them using the search utility is impossible!

I have tried using the following terms in both the normal mode and the advanced mode (allows you to specify if you are looking for sites or categories or both):

Alfreton Business
Alfreton Business Directory
Alfreton Directory
area 55
Area55 - (part of the url)

<urls removed>

and

Alfreton News
Alfreton News Publishing Service
Alfreton Publishing

You would expect that each are relevant / valid search terms that should show results and if I understand the help file correctly - the system automatically adds a boolean "AND" for multiple words on the query line.

However, if I just search for Alfreton it does display a set of results - but having then looked through them all my sites are still not there!

So as you can imagine - I'm a little confused and I guess there are thousands of other site owners looking to see if there site is listed, reaching a conclusion that its not and then submitting their site and creating a duplicate entry - which is bad news for all the editors out there!

I look forward to any help and guidance.

Here's what I said to you by email on 09 June 2008 11:20

> I think there is something wrong with DMOZ's search utility.

It's working correctly.

It's intended to help people to find an appropriate category, not for
anxious website owners to check whether or not their websites are listed. It
works from the the RDF dump of our database which is generated approximately
weekly. The search results can thus be a week or so out of date.

If you search for Alfreton, you'll find the Alfreton category at the top of
the list of results.

Visit it and notice the date at the bottom of the page - which is when
<url removed> was listed. Considering that you suggested it to
entirely the wrong category, that's pretty good going.

Click to expand...

[the date at the bottom of the page was Tuesday, June 3, 2008]

I'm sorry that you didn't believe me but you won't get a different answer here.

In an earlier email to you on the same day, I said

<url removed> is already listed in our Alfreton category.

That you've chosen to spread that website over multiple URLs doesn't make it eligible for multiple listings.

Please do not suggest any of its subsections again.

Click to expand...

I see from the opening post that you've read our submission guidelines but you still seem to have missed the part that forbids the submission of related websites and the penalties that can be applied should it be ignored.

Reply to Jim

Hi Jim,

It's not a question of whether I believe you or not. I am certain you have a great deal of knowledge about DMOZ.

My issue is that the search utility does not work and if that's an issue related to the frequency of a cron job of a database dump, how many other people have this same issue and how much time do all the editors waste trying to answer these queries (not to mention your user base who are trying to check if there site is listed) - is not the issue to get the database to do a nightly dump? How hard is that? and how much time would it save you all and people like me?

Honestly - I have never heard of an online database search utility that does not work on current data - and to find this on DMOZ, a highly trusted resource - it does nothing to inspire confidence in the DMOZ project!

I disapprove of your comments that I won't get another answer here - What is the purpose of a forum if it's not to elicit different views and debate? sure, there may be people that agree or disagree - but somewhere, at some point, if this issue is not addressed and resolved, then people will turn away from the project in despair! and through social bookmarking it will create a negative impact on the project. I don't wish to see that happen and i'm sure others don't either. DMOZ needs to get a resolution to this issue fast.

This is an issue that affects thousands of people everyday and I don't feel that your response addresses the key issue itself.

As you state "It's intended to help people to find an appropriate category, not for anxious website owners to check whether or not their websites are listed." - I don't agree with your remarks nor the underlying attitude, in fact, I think it's offensive.

Why does the submission guideline suggest you search to see if your site is included, if there is no way of doing that through a search utility that includes an option to be able to find information by "site only" or by keyword? There's no logic in that!

Surely the purpose is to enable people like me who own multiple domains to check if there site is listed, to find the site quickly so that they can either update it if found and secondly not to re-submit it thinking it's not listed! I think DMOZ is just creating work for itself!

Try to see it from my perspective Jim - I am your client.

I wish to see if my site is listed or not and I also wish to do that through a reliable search tool - its a basic requirement of any website and i am amazed that DMOZ does not deliver in this instance!

I'm lost to what to you mean here Jim

jimnoble said:

In an earlier email to you on the same day, I said
I see from the opening post that you've read our submission guidelines but you still seem to have missed the part that forbids the submission of related websites and the penalties that can be applied should it be ignored.

Click to expand...

What website are you referring to? and which multiple domains are you referring to?

I am your client

Click to expand...

No you are not. Our 'clients' are downstream data users and surfers, not website owners.

Who is a client of DMOZ?

jimnoble said:

No you are not. Our 'clients' are downstream data users and surfers, not website owners.

Click to expand...

DMOZ provides a public service (that means anyone who interfaces with the project is your client) and invites people like me (a client) to submit my websites into your database for the benefit of common good (other clients).

Which ever way you see DMOZ Jim, it's different to how others might view it.

I am your client - as someone who submits information to the project, someone who owns websites and someone who surfs the Internet too.

But this discussion is a distraction to the real issue.

The point is that the search, such as it is, works the way it was intended. Whether that's a good thing or not is a whole different matter.

I disapprove of your comments that I won't get another answer here - What is the purpose of a forum if it's not to elicit different views and debate?

Click to expand...

Well, actually, this forum isn't like most forums. It's more a venue for editors to answer questions than it is a venue for debate.

The problem is that you're looking for a different answer to a question that isn't open-ended. And discussion about how the search should work probably isn't going to be particularly helpful since the editors who post here don't have anything to do with the functioning of the search itself.

What website are you referring to? and which multiple domains are you referring to?

motsa said:

The point is that the search, such as it is, works the way it was intended. Whether that's a good thing or not is a whole different matter.

Well, actually, this forum isn't like most forums. It's more a venue for editors to answer questions than it is a venue for debate.

The problem is that you're looking for a different answer to a question that isn't open-ended. And discussion about how the search should work probably isn't going to be particularly helpful since the editors who post here don't have anything to do with the functioning of the search itself.

Click to expand...

..........which is why - the opening question of my post reads....

My first question is - Who can I report this problem to?

If someone knows how this issue can be escalated, then please do so, or let me know how to.

I am your client - as someone who submits information to the project, someone who owns websites and someone who surfs the Internet too.

Click to expand...

No, you're really not. We invite you as a website owner to help us build the directory by allowing you to suggest your site for an editor to review but that doesn't make you a client. "Client" implies an obligation on our part to provide a service or product to you, which we don't.

The only people who could truly be considered "clients" to the ODP are (a) the people who browse the directory looking for sites and (b) the sites that use our data.

If someone knows how this issue can be escalated, then please do so, or let me know how to.

Click to expand...

AOL is fully aware of any issues and suggestions surrounding the search tool on dmoz.org so there is no need to escalate anything.

motsa said:

AOL is fully aware of any issues and suggestions surrounding the search tool on dmoz.org so there is no need to escalate anything.

Click to expand...

what issues?

motsa said:

No, you're really not. We invite you as a website owner to help us build the directory by allowing you to suggest your site for an editor to review but that doesn't make you a client. "Client" implies an obligation on our part to provide a service or product to you, which we don't.

The only people who could truly be considered "clients" to the ODP are (a) the people who browse the directory looking for sites and (b) the sites that use our data.

Click to expand...

The service you provide to me is to provide me with a functional search tool - therefore i am a client.

*sigh*

It was a general comment. Thanks for your suggestions for improving the search tool. Consider them all taken on board but this discussion has really run to conclusion.

The service you provide to me is to provide me with a functional search tool - therefore i am a client.

Click to expand...

The ODP is a directory. Directories are meant to be browsed. If you want a search engine, there are loads of those around.

motsa said:

AOL is fully aware of any issues and suggestions surrounding the search tool on dmoz.org so there is no need to escalate anything.

Click to expand...

I would like to report this issue - who can i report it to?

motsa said:

*sigh*

It was a general comment. Thanks for your suggestions for improving the search tool. Consider them all taken on board but this discussion has really run to conclusion.
The ODP is a directory. Directories are meant to be browsed. If you want a search engine, there are loads of those around.

Click to expand...

It may have run to your conclusion - but not to mine!

All the replies have taken no positive action to improve the service DMOZ offera to the public - and I think that is appauling.

interestedguy said:

It may have run to your conclusion - but not to mine!

All the replies have taken no positive action to improve the service DMOZ offera to the public - and I think that is appauling.

Click to expand...

You've really missed the point and you have not addressed the original posting.

I would like to report this issue - who can i report it to?

Click to expand...

As with anything else related to the ODP, you are more than welcome to contact staff@dmoz.org .

motsa said:

As with anything else related to the ODP, you are more than welcome to contact staff@dmoz.org .

Click to expand...

Thanks. I appreciate it.

I've just found this in DMOZ FAQ's - "Because of these factors, it is certainly not a reliable means of finding out whether a particular site is listed in the ODP or not." - So let me ask the question - what the hell is the point of it and why then instruct people to use the search tool to find a site if the thing does not work? Surely, its a simple fix implemented in a shorter time frame than it is to discuss it.

I am amazed no one is taking responsibility for this - its a disgrace to the whole project!