Do Newer Websites get put on hold?

LesNor

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Hi, This is a great forum.

I understand that Google gives PR points for the length of time a sight has been online. You never do know for sure, but that's what I read. [Adult URL removed] was submitted to dmoz on the very first day the site went online, which admittedly is less than a year. I do understand that there is no guarantee that the site will be published at all. Does the dmoz put a hold on publishing new websites? Are adult sites given less consideration than other sites?
 

pvgool

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LesNor said:
Does the dmoz put a hold on publishing new websites
No we don´t. When a site was first published on the Internet is of no relevance to us.
LesNor said:
Are adult sites given less consideration than other sites?
No they aren´t. But they must be suggested to the special section of DMOZ special for this kind of sites.
 

LesNor

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So Sorry

I'm very sorry, I just saw the adult section. will post my question there to continue the conversation.
 

pvgool

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could you please remove the link to your site form your first posting
 

nea

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That's OK - I removed the link. As for the question - pvgool already answered, but I can give a specific example: last weekend I read in the paper about a site that went live the Friday before (two days before I read about it), and I immediately listed it in DMOZ. So, no, we don't care about the age of a site at all as long as it is listable.

On the other hand, a lot of sites are suggested before they have any content, presumably because the webmasters think that by the time they are reviewed, there will be content on them. I remove a dozen sites like that from the pool of unreviewed sites every week. I might save one in fifty, maybe, to check on later, because it looks like it will actually get some content.

That's my personal mode of working though - different editors work in different ways.
 

LesNor

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Well, that's rather frustrating that you would list a site on the dmoz for a site right away without a submission, when there are many very hard working webmasters that can wait 2 years or more to be listed, if ever. I'm sure there's a good reason for that. Can you shed light on it?

I'm very much interested in what qualities a site may have the make the editor decide to list it. I'm also very interested on how the dmoz keeps some editors from shutting out sites that may compete with their own.

Thanks for deleted the link. Yes, I have blonde moments...
 

bobrat

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But that assumes that there is some reason to review and list sites in the order they were suggested. And there is absolutely no reason to do so - there is no correlation of the importance of a site to the date of submission.

For example, it would perhaps make more sense for sites to be listed in the order in which they were created. So a URL that was registered four years ago might be more stable and have more content that one created last week.

But that method would have flaws, URL's created four years ago, might hold sites that have not been updated and maintained, so one might as well review sites in a random order. In general editors will review sites in groups based on categories that they are working on and not pay any attention to the date suggested.

Some editors might review sites with well written descriptions ahead of others, on the basis that a well written description migh correlate to a well thought out site, and also a submitter that takes the care to make an editors work easier gets some benefit from that.

And some final points to think about - just because a webmaster knows about DMOZ and submits a site does not make that sites better that one that has never been submitted.

And hard working webmaster, do not necesarily make sites that we want to list. Sites that are made by amateurs (and look like it), but contain unique information sometimes are better to list.
 

LesNor

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Thanks for the reply.

So you're saying that sites that contain unique information are more likely to get listed sooner, if that site applies to the category the editor is working on at the moment. And sites that are more articulate in it's submission makes the editor's work easier and so might get listed faster than one that is less articulate in it's submission discription? I see.

Also, I didn't mean to imply that an older site is necessarily any better than a newer site. I only brought it up because I read somewhere that Google might be reluctant to give newer sites a higher listing.

Thanks for the insight. I'm so glad I found this forum.
 

LesNor

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So if dmoz does not necessarily review sites in the order in which they are submitted, what order ARE they reviewed in? Is there any, or would you say it varies from editor to editor?

It sounds like you're saying that dmoz puts a higher priority on what it considers important sights. is there a resource that explains what criteria the dmoz uses in establishing importance? I have a real desire to understand, and I'm getting the felling that it's all a lot more complicated than i initially suspected...
 

motsa

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I only brought it up because I read somewhere that Google might be reluctant to give newer sites a higher listing.
Except that we're not Google, however many times people confuse us.

So if dmoz does not necessarily review sites in the order in which they are submitted, what order ARE they reviewed in?
"Random" would be most accurate. While editors can sort lists of suggested site in a number of ways, most editors tend to edit in a highly personalized, somewhat random fashion.

It sounds like you're saying that dmoz puts a higher priority on what it considers important sights. is there a resource that explains what criteria the dmoz uses in establishing importance? I have a real desire to understand, and I'm getting the felling that it's all a lot more complicated than i initially suspected...
"Importance" is an extremely subjective, highly personal thing and thus nothing you can or should put into site selection criteria.
 

spectregunner

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So if dmoz does not necessarily review sites in the order in which they are submitted, what order ARE they reviewed in?

Have you ever bobbed for apples?

When you stick your face in that cold water, it really makes no difference if the apple was the first one in the tub, or the last one in the tub. You stick your face in the water and you take your chances.

Suggested sites are the apples, the tub is the submission pool, and the editor is one one bobbing his/her head, hoping to find an apple (site) with coins (content) rather than one with worms.
 

hutcheson

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First, to the former question. Apparently your site is an adult site. I don't ever edit there, so when a site was submitted there is nothing to me. I edit somewhere else. Multiply that by ten thousand editors who edit HERE but not THERE, or mostly here, or here today and there tomorrow -- and the question of an overall "order" really doesn't arise. Every time an editor logs in, there's an order -- for the sites he proposes to review. Even if he knows ahead of time what order that will be, nobody else knows it! So the total order in which sites are reviewed is ... the merge of all the individual orders (which are always for all practical purposes unknowable, and are usually unknowable in any sense.) That's about as close to "pure randomness" as you can get outside the weather forecasts. So in a sense, it's very simple: a throw of ten thousand dice, all different shaped, all shaved and weighted differently.

Now, control freaks freak out at this point. Who controls this? How could anyone control this? The answer is, nobody, and no way. But the more important question, which few people think to ask (but which theoreticians have already answered) is: with all the variables, with all the imponderables, with all the judgment calls, how could anyone control it to to a better job? And the answer to that is: it can't be done. So I'm happy with randomness -- and to some extent my own editing is deliberately random, both in choice of categories and in choice of sites within category. If without looking, I cannot judge which site is best, then how can I do better than random? (Obviously I can't and nobody else can either.) And at least, if I'm picking at random, no clever spammer can track my trajectory and deliberately drop his garbage in front of me!

But random is not everything. A very active, very focused editor (and we have some like that) will create a small area of the directory where sites are reviewed quickly. And a group of editors will often gather for a few days or weeks to focus on some particular area that needs a lot of work. And even if I'm in a particularly random mood, I'll do triage -- see if a quick look at the apparently mis-submitted and apparently unlistable submittals can't turn "apparently" into "obviously". So "random" doesn't mean "even distribution."

I think that may indicate an answer to the next question: what does "the dmoz" consider important? "the dmoz" is only the integral cross of what each individual volunteer considers important, and how important each individual volunteer considers the ODP.

But definitely, site age is not a major factor in ODP site reviews -- we nearly always don't even know what it is, and don't care enough to find out.

And "hard-working webmaster" is no criterion at all. It depends on what the webmaster is working on! And if it were a criterion, it would still be useless for prioritization since you don't know how hard the webmaster worked till AFTER the site review. (This same issue is the bane of most imaginable prioritization criteria: obvious as that fact seems, it is seldom noticed.) I will note that we have seen many notorious webmasters who work far harder on self-promotion than on having a self worth promoting, so "urgency of SERP perping" is a pretty good inverse criterion.

The web is complicated. Anything that does a good job of indexing the web is going to be complicated. And ... this is another important and obvious fact that's often overlooked: Nothing does a perfect job. That's why it's good to have multiple indexes, each with its own unique approach: each index is going to miss something. In the ODP, stuff can slip through the cracks.

How do we deal with this -- keep the cracks as small as possible? The absolute worst way -- zombie-mindless, stark raving spittle-frothing insane way -- would be to force all editors to use the same priority. And therefore anything that slipped through ITS (inevitably huge) cracks would be lost for certain. (The straitjacket most often suggested is, of course, submitted sites. But it is surely the worst approach of all, missing the vast majority of the best sites, and an absolute majority of listable sites.)

The ODP goes the opposite direction as far as possible. Editors are encouraged to use as many different sources and techniques as they can, to find sites. (Good techniques are shared and critiqued in the forums.) We have constant reminders not to focus on the submittals, not even to focus on links found on the internet, but to spread the nets wide. That way, a site may be missed in multiple sweeps, but get caught up in the end.

Complicated? In practice, yes. In theory it's wonderfully simple. Invite public-spirited enthusiasts to contribute to the public good; give them tools; give them freedom; expand their perceptions; be grateful for what's done. And count on the "democracy of the (public-spirited element of the) web" to provide the best possible sampling of what's important to the public. Give up control, and accept gifts, even the ones that don't match your wardrobe.

And recognize its limitations: there are things it can't do; there are even things it could have done, that it won't ever do. (Figure out the difference between those two categories: help with the latter, and go somewhere else to address the former.)
 

LesNor

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Based on your description, I do not envy the editor. I can only imagine how many thousands of submission have to be manually perused each week. As a webmaster, though, the randomness of the process you describe brings comfort, as it seems to put everyone on a level playing field. At least everyone starts out that way. Also, it seems that in order to plow through the mounds of submissions, there must be many editors for each category, which would reduce the chances of any site being purposely shut out for less than noble reasons. all in all it seems like a fair system to me.

It sounds like that the best thing to do is to submit your site in the proper category, then forget about it and focus on making your site the best it can be, and hope your site makes a contribution to the web.

If your site doesn't get listed, what's a reasonable amount of time to wait before you re-submit?
 

spectregunner

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It sounds like that the best thing to do is to submit your site in the proper category, then forget about it and focus on making your site the best it can be, and hope your site makes a contribution to the web.

By Jove, I think he's got it!!! :D :D

If your site doesn't get listed, what's a reasonable amount of time to wait before you re-submit?

Given that we are talking about a single resubmission, and not an resubmission every time this period of time elapses: editors here recommend periods of time raning from six months to one year.
 
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