Duplicate Sites?

Hi,

I've read all the rules on duplication, multiple submissions, etc but I think we have a special case and wanted clarification from some editors. Here's our situation:

We currently sell widgets, widget accessories, and other widget products under two different company names.

The first site, www.widgetA.com, has 3500+ products and is listed in the ODP. WidgetA provides information, forums, FAQ's, and other things about these Widget's. WidgetA is considered among the top 2 or 3 authority sites on these types of widgets as well as a great resource for ordering these widgets.

The second site, www.widgetB.com, has about 400 products and is not listed in the ODP. WidgetB is renowned for the lowest prices in the widget field but only carries the top 10% of the inventory offered at WidgetA.

Both sites are operated independent of each other and provide very different experiences for the website viewer (both ordering and functionality wise). They do share products but there's a drastic difference in price while customer service and online services are slightly different. WidgetB.com has been highly rated by consumers on different rating services and provides a great source for "value/discount" type shoppers. Essentially, WidgetA has been set up as an informational widget site while WidgetB is set up as a discount widget site.

Finally...here are my questions.

1. Since they only share some products, a return address, and provide drastically different user experiences, would it be considered "spam" to submit WidgetB for inclusion in the ODP?

2. Would I jeopardize WidgetA's listing in the ODP if I do submit WidgetB for inclusion?

3. If the answer to question 1 is yes, after reading the above descriptions, what changes would need to be made to WidgetB to make it ODP worthy?

I apologize in advance if this is the incorrect forum or if these types of questions are not normally answered.

Regards,

Old_Man

1. Yes, and vigorously so.
2. Yes, according to the submittal policy.
3. No change to widgetb.com would be necessary or sufficient. But the permanent death of widgeta.com and removal of its listing would be necessary and sufficient.

We absolutely are not building a directory of "user experiences." Your two sites should link to each other; if they do, then we consider them one site spread across two domains (and give that one site one listing at most.) If they don't link to each other, then you start looking like a really deceptive fraternal-mirror spammer.

Hello

I can see where you are coming from from a Business perspective as both sites cater for different clientele's/aim for different markets. However this is an area where Business webmasters can get frustrated with the ODP.

From the ODP's point of view you are one business selling widgets on two sites with one site offering more information than the other. Therefore, in general, either of the sites are listable but not both - the editor probably choosing the listed site over the unlisted site.

I have come across quite a few sites where for convenience (e.g. maintenance) a business splits itself over a number of domains (e.g. information and catalogue) and the norm is that the main site is the only one listed.

So the answer to your question is sorry but the second site could never be listed. However we are glad you asked before suggesting it.

regards

hutcheson said:

1. Yes, and vigorously so.
2. Yes, according to the submittal policy.
3. No change to widgetb.com would be necessary or sufficient. But the permanent death of widgeta.com and removal of its listing would be necessary and sufficient.

We absolutely are not building a directory of "user experiences." Your two sites should link to each other; if they do, then we consider them one site spread across two domains (and give that one site one listing at most.) If they don't link to each other, then you start looking like a really deceptive fraternal-mirror spammer.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the quick response. I've never been 100% sure of the ODP's goal so wasn't sure how it would be viewed. I guess we won't submit widgetB.

Regards,

Old_Man

Eric-the-Bun said:

Hello
I can see where you are coming from from a Business perspective as both sites cater for different clientele's/aim for different markets.

Click to expand...

Thanks for your reply and that's exactly our goal...some widget buyers need more info while some widget buyers just want a price.

Out of curiosity, we've considered breaking into a new business selling entirely different widgets on an entirely different site. How would an ODP editor view this completely separate site and product line? Is that a new site for the ODP to review or would it be a non-fraternal site but same owners and thus not ODP worthy?

Again, I appreciate both of your quick replies.

Old_Man

It would be viewed as spreading one site over yet more domains, and looks more and more like the deceptive activities that spammers try to pull all the time.

Thanks for understanding.

If I thought I knew anything about marketing, which I don't, I'd suggest considering widgetb as the main entry (at least wherever you need to think of it as a single site), with a tag line something like "for more choice, see our full line catalog", linking to widgeta.

In commercial categories, roughly speaking the ODP is a directory of companies that have websites in front of them, not of websites that have companies behind them.

<concurrent post -- giz answered the last question, this is the question before last>

To add to what Eric-the-Bun said, I'd like to thank you for asking your very reasonable question in an equally reasonable way, for taking the time to do some reading, and for refraining from "link-dropping" or otherwise advertising your site(s). Such courtesy, and understanding of the forum purpose, is greatly appreciated!

You may not be aware that if your widget business has what is called in ODP terms a "Regional focus" (meaning there is a physical presence or relevance to a geographical location) you could suggest the main site to the most specific category under http://dmoz.org/Regional/ as well. For example, the site may be listable in the category for the town where the shop or factory is located. There is help for finding a suitable category in Tips for submitting to a Regional category, although of course you will have to wait until the technical problems are resolved before being able to suggest it.

Well that becomes a trickier question but the same rule applies in general - 1 business 1 listing. However when a business offers more than 1 line there are several options all of which depend on the editor assessing 'uniqueness'..

If you were selling lefthanded widgets and listed in the lefthanded widget category and then created a new right handed widget company, we would want to list a single site of your business in the parent widget category, not give a second listing in the right handed widget company.

If your second company instead was involved in purple hamsters (or something totally different to lefthanded widgets) then it becomes a case of editor's discretion. One editor may leave the business in the left handed widget section and add to the description information on the purple hamster site. Or they could decide to suggest the purple hamster site to the purple hamster category in which case it would be reviewed for that category (and the reviewer may or may not agree). A third option is for it to be moved to a 'general' category.

Our advice in these cases is to worry more about your business strategy than a listing in the ODP . Your ultimate goal is to be successful and, though a link from the ODP is useful, it is not vital. Should you expand your business use the update listing to inform the editor of the change and they will then rereview the site(s). It is useful to let the editor know the related sites by adding a note e.g [spanning widgetsA.xxx, widgetsB.xxx, hamsters.xxx] as they then clearly know what to look for. We always prefer to be dealing with one suggestion per business.

regards

PS what makrhod said - 1 in topical, 1 in regional

hutcheson said:

Thanks for understanding.

If I thought I knew anything about marketing, which I don't, I'd suggest considering widgetb as the main entry (at least wherever you need to think of it as a single site), with a tag line something like "for more choice, see our full line catalog", linking to widgeta.

In commercial categories, roughly speaking the ODP is a directory of companies that have websites in front of them, not of websites that have companies behind them.

<concurrent post -- giz answered the last question, this is the question before last>

Click to expand...

No problem...I'm sure you see more than enough spammers/fraud like every other industry on the net. I think widgetA is the correct site to list in the ODP since it provides more informational value for experienced or newbie users alike.

I think your quote on the commercial categories should be included in the "How To Submit A Site" documentation. I think that alone would prevent multiple submissions from well intentioned multi-site owners.

Thanks again.

Old_Man

makrhod said:

To add to what Eric-the-Bun said, I'd like to thank you for asking your very reasonable question in an equally reasonable way, for taking the time to do some reading, and for refraining from "link-dropping" or otherwise advertising your site(s). Such courtesy, and understanding of the forum purpose, is greatly appreciated!

You may not be aware that if your widget business has what is called in ODP terms a "Regional focus" (meaning there is a physical presence or relevance to a geographical location) you could suggest the main site to the most specific category under http://dmoz.org/Regional/ as well. For example, the site may be listable in the category for the town where the shop or factory is located.

Click to expand...

Your welcome and thanks for the regional tip. While we sell our widgets locally as well as internationally, I don't want to rock the widget boat by chasing a local category

Thanks

Old_Man

Eric-the-Bun said:

Our advice in these cases is to worry more about your business strategy than a listing in the ODP . Your ultimate goal is to be successful and, though a link from the ODP is useful, it is not vital. Should you expand your business use the update listing to inform the editor of the change and they will then rereview the site(s). It is useful to let the editor know the related sites by adding a note e.g [spanning widgetsA.xxx, widgetsB.xxx, hamsters.xxx] as they then clearly know what to look for. We always prefer to be dealing with one suggestion per business.

regards

PS what makrhod said - 1 in topical, 1 in regional

Click to expand...

We're thinking of getting into the purple hampster business but it's still 6 to 12 months down the road. We're extremely happy with the widget business but purple hampsters have some potential.

We've never really worried about an ODP listing and try to focus on user experience, price, and customer support. Today just happened to be DMOZ day...lucky for you guys

We've never really worried about an ODP listing and try to focus on user experience, price, and customer support.

Click to expand...

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