Entering/Editing Events, Procedures

I can validate the value of being listed in the ODP. I was enjoying top of the page results at the major search engines when I was listed. I then expanded my concept from regional to national and submitted an "update listing" form in order to change the category to reflect national status.

Alas, after submitting the change, my old listing was removed, but not replaced with the new, edited listing. It's been over a year now and I have seen my rankings drop significantly as well as traffic, even though I am now in more markets.

My thoughts are that it would be soooo much more helpful if there were a way for the category editor to provide a response explaining why a site was not allowed to be edited/entered and also why some good sites (such as those for friends that I submitted) have not been listed in as long as 3 years. I have not spammed the service, but admit that I have resubmitted after a respectable time period--six months or more. It would even be really nice to know why a listing was rejected so it could be fixed, and even when a site was accepted.

I depend on this site for my livelihood and getting listed here is paramount. I'm sure many others feel the same.

Could we please have some communication?

Thanks,

JohnC

Alas, after submitting the change, my old listing was removed, but not replaced with the new, edited listing. It's been over a year now and I have seen my rankings drop significantly as well as traffic, even though I am now in more markets.

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Most probabaly the editor that looked at the update request did not have permission in the national level category. He moved the site to that category for a new review. Which has not happened yet.
Any connections with rankings and traffic is not something we care much about.

My thoughts are that it would be soooo much more helpful if there were a way for the category editor to provide a response explaining why a site was not allowed to be edited/entered

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This is already communicated to everybody. See http://www.dmoz.org/guidelines/include.html for sites we will include and which not.

and also why some good sites (such as those for friends that I submitted) have not been listed in as long as 3 years.

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There are only 2 possible reasons.
1. the site is not listable
2. the suggestion is still waiting review

It would even be really nice to know why a listing was rejected so it could be fixed,

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Our experience is that a website can not be fixed to become listable. We do not reject on small fixable issues.

and even when a site was accepted.

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That is already for everybody to see. Just look at the directory and you know which sites are listed.

I depend on this site for my livelihood and getting listed here is paramount.

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If the succes of your website depends on the actions of some people who create a directory as a hobby the website has already failed.
There is only one person who can make your website a success. And that is you.

All your remarks would be valid if DMOZ was some sort of listing service like other directories. But fact is that DMOZ is not a listing service and never will be.

I really do value your efforts and the service you provide. The tone of my original post (and this one!) was intended to be supportive and suggestive and not angry or complaining. I apologize if I irritated or offended you.

First, I'd like to clarify that I was in no way suggesting that the editor actually review and make suggestions on the on the quality, design, content or any other characteristic of the submitted site.

What I meant, and did not clearly state, was that it would be helpful to the submitter to know if the site was actually reviewed and no longer in the pending queue. Or maybe it was declined because there was something wrong in the submission itself. Maybe the submitter chose the wrong category or left something off the form. Or maybe the form could generate a bounce-back stating that there is currently no editor for the chosen category and that the submitter should investigate the possibility of selecting another if one could be found that might also be appropriate.

I was really looking for notification that it had actually been reviewed and was not still pending. As mentioned, I have submitted some fine sites for associates as long as three years ago that have not been published. Maybe a time limit could be imposed, like if a site is not published in 6 months, then the submission expires and it should be tried again. Just a thought.

As you stated, the DMOZ is not a listing service like other directories. it is a hobby for those of you maintaining it, but some of the major search engines give it considerable weight when ranking a site, therefore, what is your hobby actually does affect the success of a site, particularly for us smaller guys: those of us who don't have huge budgets for pay-per-click. As mentioned in my first post, dropping off of DMOZ has had a dramatic effect on my rankings and, therefore, traffic, which is directly tied to my success, meaning that like it or not, my success is partially dependent on being listed in DMOZ.

BTW - The sites with which I am involved are not even close to being disqualified by any of the provisions listed on the guidelines page.

pvgool said:

Most probabaly the editor that looked at the update request did not have permission in the national level category. He moved the site to that category for a new review. Which has not happened yet.
Any connections with rankings and traffic is not something we care much about.


This is already communicated to everybody. See http://www.dmoz.org/guidelines/include.html for sites we will include and which not.


There are only 2 possible reasons.
1. the site is not listable
2. the suggestion is still waiting review


Our experience is that a website can not be fixed to become listable. We do not reject on small fixable issues.


That is already for everybody to see. Just look at the directory and you know which sites are listed.


If the succes of your website depends on the actions of some people who create a directory as a hobby the website has already failed.
There is only one person who can make your website a success. And that is you.

All your remarks would be valid if DMOZ was some sort of listing service like other directories. But fact is that DMOZ is not a listing service and never will be.

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What I meant, and did not clearly state, was that it would be helpful to the submitter to know if the site was actually reviewed and no longer in the pending queue.

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This has been said before. But it isn't believed. Nobody has ever described HOW it would help an honest person. (Unfortunately, we know all too well how it would help spammers.)

Or maybe it was declined because there was something wrong in the submission itself.

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Shouldn't happen. Ever. Why would an editor decline a suggestion just because there was something wrong--when we can just FIX whatever's wrong? There's no point on earth in supporting such an idiotic way of working--when we could use so much help supporting more efficient ways....like....just fix the suggestion and go on.

Maybe the submitter chose the wrong category or left something off the form.

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Shouldn't happen. EVER. Why would the editor throw away an almost-perfectly-good suggestion because it wasn't complete ... when most of our work is done without ANY helpful suggestions? Even half a suggestion of a good site is better than nothing. Again, there's no way on earth we're going to waste valuable programming resources supporting a model of editor behavior that is considered 'abusive' and could get the editor removed for cause.

Or maybe the form could generate a bounce-back stating that there is currently no editor for the chosen category and that the submitter should investigate the possibility of selecting another if one could be found that might also be appropriate.

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Not going to happen. EVER. That's the sort of idiotic idea that floats around the more stagnant waters of the failed-SEO graveyard. We ALWAYS want the site suggested to the best category. If it's suggested to another category, we'll just move it to the right category (to wait for an editor there.) Again, anyone who ever gives you that reasoning for their advice, write them off as completely clueless.

I was really looking for notification that it had actually been reviewed and was not still pending.

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All sites on the web are pending. Unreviewed sites are pending review. Listed sites are pending re-review, Previously reviewed but unlisted sites are pending re-review.

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See, this is the real problem. You have a vision of what editors do, that isn't at all related to what editors do.

Editors look for good sites, however they can find them, review, categorize, and describe them. Suggestions are one way of finding sites, one of the least important and least reliable ways. Editors know that, and don't expect perfection from them. If a suggestion looks like a good starting place for finding a good site, that's a help, and who would throw away good help?

John_Collins said:

but some of the major search engines give it considerable weight when ranking a site

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Than complain with those search engines. We do not control how they use DMOZ data.

what is your hobby actually does affect the success of a site, particularly for us smaller guys: those of us who don't have huge budgets for pay-per-click. As mentioned in my first post, dropping off of DMOZ has had a dramatic effect on my rankings and, therefore, traffic, which is directly tied to my success, meaning that like it or not, my success is partially dependent on being listed in DMOZ.

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We have seen many people believing and claiming such an effect but at the same time we have seen websites that are not listed in DMOZ do very well and listed websites do very poorly in search engine rankings. As fas as we have been able to establish the "major" effect DMOZ has on search engines is a myth. A myth created by webdesigners and SEO people. A good website with a good marketing plan will not need a DMOZ listing a poor website or a poor marketing plan will not benefit from a DMOZ listing. And because of the way DMOZ operates those that do not need a listing are the most probable websites to be included and those that think that they need a listing are the most probable websites not to be listable.

Thank you for the information. I understand it better now.