FINALLY some justice for biased editors

Hi all,

Just joined today, this is my first post.

Upon making many enquiries as to why my site was not being added (mainly in other forums and blogs beofore I was pointed in this direction) I came across a "senior" editer a couple of weeks back I say seniour because she has been an editor for many years.

She did not give me much specifics about my site or submission but after saying she would look into it and not getting back to me for a few days I decided to send another email to jog her memory of me.

I said I had read a lot of info about editors being biased and quite a few getting payed to submit/remove listings and what have you, she replied with the following.

"It has been known for sometime that certain editors are and have been abusing the Dmoz guidelines and there has been a team put together recently of more senior editors to review listings and editors again, especially for submissions into highly competitive areas, such as yours. If editors are found to have thier own websites, or are linked in anyway to sites that they have been editing, they will not only be permanently removed as Dmoz editors, but all associated listings they have been suspiciously approving or removing will be removed and will require resubmission. If it is found they have personal or business websites they have edited and have denied submission to similar websites that should have otherwise been considered, their site will be given specific penalties within the network of the Dmoz search partners"

- That was slightly edited, mainly just to get to the punch, but I think she was trying to tell me that my site may have not been submitted, due to some suspicious editing activity, what do you think?

Either way, it seems finally the little guy will be getting some justice, and the prick editors that have been playing "god" with submissions will get some of thier own back.

Just thought I would share this with you all, and perhaps you now know why your site has not been added (especially if you are trying to get into a very competitive field).

All the best, now to find the thread where we can enquire about our subission status...unless someone can point me in the right direction first....?

We are always on the look out for corrupt editors and we think they are offensive too. However, let's get this issue in perspective. Most unlisted websites are either unlistable or we haven't finished evaluating them yet. Conspiracy theories are unlikely to be the explanation.

now to find the thread where we can enquire about our subission status

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You won't find one in this forum because status requests are against its T&C. See the announcement at the top of the page.

Tryingfordmoz said:

"It has been known for sometime that certain editors are and have been abusing the Dmoz guidelines and there has been a team put together recently of more senior editors to review listings and editors again, especially for submissions into highly competitive areas, such as yours. If editors are found to have thier own websites, or are linked in anyway to sites that they have been editing, they will not only be permanently removed as Dmoz editors, but all associated listings they have been suspiciously approving or removing will be removed and will require resubmission. If it is found they have personal or business websites they have edited and have denied submission to similar websites that should have otherwise been considered, their site will be given specific penalties within the network of the Dmoz search partners"

- That was slightly edited, mainly just to get to the punch, but I think she was trying to tell me that my site may have not been submitted, due to some suspicious editing activity, what do you think?

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Either that editor was not as senior as you think or you have edited the statements to much.

some facts
- there have been editors that have misused their privilges, and we are sure that there will be others in the future that will do the same
- editor activity is always checked, either inititated by ourself or as a result of an abuse report (there is no special team for such investigations)
- investigations are not something of recent times, we have been doing it for many years
- editors are allowed to list websites they own or are associated with in another way
- editors are not allowed to favor any website (not their own website but also no other website)
- editors that are found to make errors will first be corrected, if the errors are intentionaly (aka abuse) or if the editor does not want to change his behaviour after being warned he may be removed as an editor
- what will happen with websites involved in an abuse depends on the situation, non-listable website will be removed (as they would have been if no abuse was involved), listable websites most probably stay listed (titles and descriptions will be corrected to match our guidelines), there are cases in which listable websites might be removed
- never will an action in DMOZ lead to a penalty on other websites, DMOZ only shares the directory of listed websites, we do NOT share lists of rejected websites / lists of suggested but not processed websites / lists of banned websites - this information is only for DMOZ internal use

What pvgool said. The "edited" quote you posted doesn't sound at all like a truly experienced editor so you've either edited it to the point that it no longer resembles what the editor told you or the editor wasn't as experienced as you might have thought (or perhaps wasn't even an editor at all).

It has been known for sometime that certain editors are and have been abusing the Dmoz guidelines and there has been a team put together recently of more senior editors to review listings and editors again, especially for submissions into highly competitive areas, such as yours.

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Tackling allegations of editorial abuse is something we've always done. There's no recent team of senior editors tasked with investigating specific editors or specific categories. ("Highly competitive" sounds like a site owner or SEO professional talking -- an experienced editor would be more likely to refer to those categories as "heavily spammed".)

If editors are found to have thier own websites, or are linked in anyway to sites that they have been editing, they will not only be permanently removed as Dmoz editors, but all associated listings they have been suspiciously approving or removing will be removed and will require resubmission.

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There has never been a policy wherein editors owning their own sites or affiliated with any sites they edit are removed simply for having those associations. Editing a site that you are affiliated with isn't abuse if you treat it appropriately per the guidelines. (Favouritism or other inappropriate editing is a different matter.)

If it is found they have personal or business websites they have edited and have denied submission to similar websites that should have otherwise been considered, their site will be given specific penalties within the network of the Dmoz search partners"

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DMOZ has no network of search partners (beyond perhaps AOL, which owns DMOZ) and we have no way to influence how a site is treated on any site except dmoz.org.

I strongly suspect, after a year of trying to get listed (and I realise that listings can take longer, but in another category I have found listing very quick - I had a site when I lived in France) that the category in which I am trying to get listed is being positively vetted in favour of sites owned, managed or authored by one particular web designing company.

You may take it from that, that the category is a niche one with relatively few sites listed - if I add it up right, 37. A number of these are credited to the same designers, others have no credit and others have different designers.

I accept that it is up to DMOZ to decide who is listed, but it is frustrating having a suspicion and being unable to find out if this is founded or unfounded, especially as my site is not for profit so I have no budget to do research. More so as my site out performs all the other sites in the DMOZ category despite always appearing below them in searches. I suspect this is because my site is actually current and well maintained.

You will note I have been careful not to mention any site or designer in this post. I hope this shows my respect for DMOZ and the otherwise high regard in which I hold the project's aims, objectives and procedures.

Anyway, I write this simply in frustration and in no way as a general criticism.

If you suspect abuse, you can bring it our attention by filing an abuse report at http://www.dmoz.org/public/abuse. Includes as much information as you about the suspected abuse (e.g. the category, the name and site of the web designer, the sites they've designed that are listed, etc.). The more information you can provide to support your suspicions, the easier it will be for a meta editor to investigate.

Better use the public server http://www.dmoz.org/public/abuse instead of the editor server (as that one may ask for login fro some pages)

Thank you very much for the information. Best regards

I didn't get an ID when I submitted my report and I wonder if that means that the report didn't get submitted correctly?

I'm very pleased to say my site is now listed. I have no way of identifying whether it is purely coincidence - which it may well be - or not. Anyhow, thanks for all the advice.

Gallovidian said:

I'm very pleased to say my site is now listed. I have no way of identifying whether it is purely coincidence - which it may well be - or not. Anyhow, thanks for all the advice.

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Congratulations! It is good to hear a good story about site being listed, I think DMOZ do have some honest editors.

Wow, I think you have been very fortunate Gallovidian - perhaps you could give me a couple of pointers.

I first suggested my site back in 2006-7 (or thereabouts - it's been a while so I can't recall the exact date) and then, after a complete site revamp and move to a new DNS, resubmitted some time around last spring, so when folks here say it can take years to get listed, they really do mean it! All in all, I think my website is a good, clean and informative site that reflects my work well enough and I'm pretty certain I've complied with all the DMOZ guidelines.

However, the category editor appears to be quite focused on German based subject areas and, to be fair, I imagine she has a lot of submissions/suggestions to work through. She's listed as editor of 7 categories containing numerous sub-categories with a total of 21,188 listings - all but 2 of these categories (which, granted, contain 8784 listings) pertain specifically to German subject areas. I'm hoping that there are other editors allocated to some of these categories too - I'm not up to speed on the finer points of how the editorial system operates and I don't know how accurately I'm portraying things here, so forgive me if I'm way wide of the mark.
All the same, I don't really rate my chances much - though I do continue to live in a small measure of hope.


PS. Galloway is such a beautiful place - I'm so envious of anyone who lives there and I try to visit whenever I get the time.

I'm hoping that there are other editors allocated to some of these categories too - I'm not up to speed on the finer points of how the editorial system operates and I don't know how accurately I'm portraying things here, so forgive me if I'm way wide of the mark.

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- No editor 'owns' a category to the exclusion of all other editors.
- No editors are allocated to a category. They're all volunteers who work as much or as little as they wish within the scope of their permissions.
- Around 200 of us can work in any category we wish - and we do.

Assuming that your website is listable (many aren't) you're seeing the effect of editorial capacity being lower than the amount of work available.

Don't grumble about it - become part of the solution by applying to become an editor .

Oh, not so much a grumble, Jim, as much as an expression of resigned stoicism - or should that be stoical resignation.. what ever, I know things take time.

Anyway, thanks for the very kind invitation. I would consider applying to become an editor if I could find the time, but I fear I have far too many irons in the fire already: company boss; head designer/carpenter/sculptor; dad; school governor; perpetual soft touch and shoulder for friends/relatives/employees to cry on; radio producer/presenter; general idealist/egalitarian, and; international sartorial style guru (alright - I lied about the last one). If I try to take anything else on, my head will explode, my wife will strangle me and my kids will carry on exactly as they always do without any though for how much they do my head in.

Sorry, you're right - I have started grumbling, haven't I?... but only since you mentioned it and with particular regard to my progeny.

By the way, did I mention I also have a sore arm?