ford.com spamming the ODP ?!?

I was cruising through
http://dmoz.org/Recreation/Autos/Makes_and_Models/Ford_Motor_Company/
this evening, and came across an entry for Ford Motor Company. The URL that was under the link was http://www.ford.com/ but when I clicked on it, the web site automatically REDIRECTED me to
http://www.ford.com/en/default.htm
Redirects are not allowed, as per:

http://dmoz.org/guidelines/include.html#redirects

so I'm sure the next time an editor goes through this category, they will correct the underlying URL to display the correct one. Hutcheson points out that although it sometimes makes more work for editors later, those are the rules:
http://www.resource-zone.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=submissions&Number=12504&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=21&fpart=1#Post12582

Worse yet, it appears that they are nothing but a front door for a bunch of car sites, all owned by the same company! They say they offer the cars to different markets, but really, they're all made of metal, they are used to take things from one place to another - it's obvious they are just using this site to get an additional listing for all these other sites: Volvo, Mazda, Jaguar - Heck, there's even a link to another site that says it sells cars with the same name Ford! - how misleading is that?!
I know this is not allowed, and trust that it will be addressed in the next review as well. I suppose the Ford.com site (with the correct URL) can stay, but all those other sub-sites should be removed. I'm sure this type of abuse is not tolerated here because the rule is explained clearly in the conversation at
http://www.resource-zone.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=status&Number=12392&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1
These guys are obviously just trying to get multiple listings for all the sub-companies they own, they need to be satisfied with just one link to the primary company's domain.

OK, so the sarcasm is waaaay deep here - but the Bekins thing really sent me over the edge. Bekins is a very well respected, long-standing company that has grown to the point where it is basically a holding company for lots of separate but related companies. Household moving is not related in any way to tradeshow support; the infrastructures needed to support them are totally different - and while they both do involve trucks and drivers, the types of trucks and drivers are completely different.

I truly do understand the need to be vigilant with the ODP database. But it just seems that the rules don't fit the real world and/or are being applied in ways that are not intended. It's akin to being guilty until proven innocent, and a defendent's protestations are interpreted as further proof of their guilt.

Worse yet, all we see here are the responses of people who managed to find reference to this board, AND had the courage to post a question. Seeing how 85% of the requests here get a "wait your turn" or "You screwed up by re-submitting within 6 months while there were still 500 items in the queue. Your punishment is that you have been moved to the end of the queue again," most people just keep their mouths shut and write off the ODP as just a another web project managed by holier than thou computer people that has turned into an unmaintained morass of useless data.

It's really time to get off the high horses and stop swinging the swords at everything that moves. I would hope that the ODP acceptance rate was at least 50%, but judging by the excuses I've seen for disallowing sites here, it is near impossible for much of anything to get in these days. Double the difficulty if the site is attempting to turn a buck in any way. Let's face it, using today's rules regarding similar content, Sears and Penneys can't both exist in the same category here.

I'm not saying that quality must be sacrificed, but I am suggesting that you all lighten up a bit.

T "OK, so I went there again" C

>> the Bekins thing really sent me over the edge. Bekins is a very well respected, long-standing company that has grown to the point where it is basically a holding company for lots of separate but related companies. <<

Since I'm British I've never heard of Bekins before they posted here, so I've evaluated their many sites based purely on content.

Four of the five links at the top of bekinsmoving.com take you to bekins.com, the other one is 404. The 'employment' link on the right hand side also leads to bekins.com. In my opinion, that looks like a company that has created a shell site designed specifically to be listed in House_Moving categories in directories across the web, while directing all enquiries back to the company that owns the main site.

Having looked through the site more thoroughly I can find almost no content at all. Since Bekins appear to just be agents for a huge collection of smaller companies, I'm wondering whether we should list them at all.

I'll keep saying this till people start to listen: We are not here to assist webmasters in their marketing strategies, we are here to list sites that are useful to our users. Since the BekinsMoving site can be reached from the main Bekins site, and the main site provides more content, that's the more useful site.


>> The URL that was under the link was http://www.ford.com/ but when I clicked on it, the web site automatically REDIRECTED me to http://www.ford.com/en/default.htm Redirects are not allowed, as per: http://dmoz.org/guidelines/include.html#redirects <<

The guidelines fail to mention the standard exception; re-directs that are for the purpose of providing language or browser specific information should not be corrected. Since the Ford site appears to be re-directing to an English language specific page, we would list the main URL and not the re-direct.

>I would hope that the ODP acceptance rate was at least 50%

And I would hope that the quality/spam ratio for submittals was greater than 1.0.

But, face it, we're both going to be disappointed.

As for the "redirection," there's another standard exception: the "bare domain" can redirect anywhere on that domain if it likes -- the index.htm file is a common default. In a case like this, we list the "simplest form." If you submit a URL like http://www.ford.com/en/default.htm , the editor should, as part of the process of checking the URL, strip off everything but the domain name and see what happens.

This conforms to two principles -- one variously expressed as "deeplinks are the exception" (technically, index.htm IS a deeplink) or "we list webSITES, not PAGES" and the other as "where not conflicting with other principles, list the simplest URL."

The value of having principles is that there are so many to choose from. The trick is to choose the relevant one.

"The directory isn't there for the principles. It's the other way round."

As for Bekins: if the company should be double-listed, fine (It's exceptional, but known. I once double-listed a company that made both mobile homes and vacation trailers -- very similar from the technological point of view, perhaps, but very different "businesses" nonetheless.) But what was handed to the ODP from Bekins was a doorway page, and that's an open-and-shut case. Well, a closed-and-shut case. All it gets Bekins is a reputation for _devious_ spamming.

If in fact Bekins operates in multiple unrelated businesses, then submit the URL -- the same real root URL -- to both categories. If in fact Bekins operates in multiple related BUSINESSES, but the CATEGORIES are unrelated (that is, there is no obvious way to navigate from one to the other), then go ahead and submit the same URL to both categories. Now, you probably won't get LISTED in both categories, but we might notice that the categories OUGHT to be related, and add the "related category" links. Would we in that case curse you for an evil spammer? No way, we'd appreciate the help you had given us by (indirectly) pointing out a deficiency in the category navigation. And your site would be more visible, because it would be in a category that was more visible. (this visibility, by the way, quantifiable as Google page rank).

From our Forum Guidelines:

In order to ensure that those who really want help can get it in as expedient a way as possible, certain rules have been drawn up. In particular, the following topics may not be discussed.

[*]Complaints about specific people working or volunteering their time at ODP.
[*]Discussion of the ways in which ODP runs itself.

We will be more than happy to answer any question you have, however if you mistook this forum as a soapbox then you are sadly mistaken. Please stick to the guidelines.