Getting feedback & answers

I hope this is the right forum for this, I'm trying to comply with all the rules.

Item 1, Can someone tell me why my STATUS request at
http://resource-zone.com/forum/showthread.php?p=128251#post128251
has been "skipped over" whilst inquiries before and after have been replied to.

Item 2, Having moved my personal web site 9 months ago (due to a dysfunctional ISP) it was not until recently that my inquiries to google as to getting the new site indexed produced a recommendation to seek a listing in DMOZ. The OLD site appears to be still on line (as a cashed site?) and avalable on search engines, at
http://log.on.ca/users/drawls/index.htm . This is not the last version of the old site, as that one had a link to the new location. I no longer have any control over the old site. Will this ALMOST identical site create problems in getting a listing.

Item 3, It was not until I went to post an inquire re status that I realized that I should have made note of all the details of my request. It seems that from some of the postings I am not the only one. A suggestion, I note that when applying for membership an auto reply email notifies us of the details, including our input. If the same were possible when applying for website listing it would perhaps reduce the traffic re wrong info when checking status. The rules and other relevant info could also be attached which would also help, particularly with forgetfull old farts like me from the old DOS days who get easily confused.
I note that this subject has been toutched on before but I have not found an answer (which does not mean that there was not one)

Clip.....Finally, a lot of people (including myself) have a hard time understanding why an automated feedback system would be impossible:
1) When a site is submitted, check the database for matches. If there's an exact match, automatically reject it with a friendly message.
2) Whenever an editor touches a site (reviews it, publishes it, rejects it, moves it, etc.), have whatever tool they use shoot an email to the submitter with a generic, "MOVED: WRONG CATEGORY. Do not respond to this email." message.............


I'm just trying to get my updated, simple, non commercial, family tree web site found again by search engines so that fellow researchers can exchange info, but what a hassle, reading some of the postings it seems that I still may have to wait months if not years but it would be nice to know if it is at least being processed.

Sorry for the long rambling, my frustration is showing, thanks to all the volunteer editors.

From the Scenic Klondike Hills, Grey County, Ontario, Canada.
Web Site:- http://users.auracom.com/drawls

Your old address was http://log.on.ca/users/drawls/index.htm

and your new one is http://users.auracom.com/drawls/

to save further issues with dysfunctional ISPs it would be worth getting yourself a domain name. They generally cost less than $10 a year and the advantage is that at the first hint that your ISP is going belly up you can go to the control panel and point your domain somewhere else. Then upload your site. Should be simple. It saves emails to Google and interruptions to a site's exposure to the search engines.

The solution above makes the rest of your questions moot points. Although I can assure you they have all been addressed in (rather long) recent threads.

Anyway I was saying; for the sake of the price of a coule of hamburgers one can gain much more control and fexibility. If it's important to you, invest a bit up front.

1) No. Volunteers take the requests that they can answer, and are interested in. Some of us try to pick off the ones that don't get picked up earlier. Stuff gets missed. It's not a big deal to us, and we won't do a post-mortem. If it happens, bump the thread after a couple or three days. We've seen a handful of threads that needed more than three bumps. The solution is to bump again.

2) Yes, that will absolutely be a problem. How can we possibly know you are the same person? (Typically, we won't even ask. It's your responsibility to get the other site taken down.)

3) and (clip) really come back to the same thing. There is already a significant concern with ODP management that we do way too much that serves no useful benefit to the directory (but is merely "service to submitters") and way too little to disabuse people of the notion that we are in the business of serving submitters. Maybe this is a place to say you're being frustrated because we don't do what you think we do, and therefore as a result we may be said to not do it at all well.

In such a context, it really doesn't matter how easy it would be to provide more services to submitters. It's not what we're here to do. But in fact, what you describe would be almost impossible IF you add a proviso that such a feature must not provide spammers details about our anti-spamming techniques. And for us that proviso is absolutely drop-dead essential.

Think of it this way. You don't have to wait at all. You may go ahead and live your life to the fullest -- just as if the ODP had never existed at all. You've perhaps done a good deed -- helped us find a good site. Make a habit of it, perhaps -- contribute to some other aspect of society.

If you're looking for webmaster services, there are zillions of sites that offer them. Don't be angry with one that doesn't.

Thanks

1)Thanks fot the "bump" as a new member I was not aware of the protocol on this.

2)Have requested that Logon, now Persona, remove the content and address, as I'm not paying them I must assume that they will do so. Thanks for the suggestion re domain name, don't know a lot about that but will look into it.

3) "Methinks thou dost protest to much". It was only a suggestion, if it is technically unfeasible without opening the door to spammers then that is the end of it so far as I'm concerned.

I just hope that one of your volunteer editors has enough interest in genealogy to pick this one up, it looks like its pretty low on the "interested editors" list!

For Your Interest
Many of your communications are regarding Google listings (I know you ARE NOT affiliated with them), after several months of inquires re getting found by their search engine here is what they had to say.......
Thank you for your note. The Google Directory is built on work done by the Open Directory Project, a network of thousands of volunteers managed by Netscape. We update the Google Directory regularly based on changes made by the ODP.

If you would like to update a webpage to be included in future versions of the Google Directory or change the categorization of a website within our Directory, you must submit those changes directly to the ODP at http://dmoz.org/about.html ...............

Hmmm, and you wonder why web page owners see DMOZ as a "service" and want to see some results in a reasonable time frame!!

Keep up the good work, don't let YOUR frustrations show!



From the Scenic Klondike Hills, Grey County, Ontario, Canada.
Web Site:- http://users.auracom.com/drawls

Oh, we know many reasons why people want what they want. And we may even know ethical ways of giving them that. It is just that the Open Directory Project gives us privileges that are contingent on our being dedicated to its goals so long as we are using its tools.

Now, once I'm logged out of dmoz, I'm open to suggestions about what I can do with time I didn't donate to the ODP. But while I'm editing, I am responsible to working within that framework for its benefit (which is to say, the benefit of surfers as viewed through its founders' perspective.

And you also need to always think about this problem which we as editors face periodically:

How do we know the surfer is the webmaster? How do we know he isn't a plagiarizing thief who is trying to steal not only the content but the links to it?

Now, most of the time he isn't. And I don't think you are. But I don't edit according to what "I think" -- I edit according to the procedures designed to protect webmasters from cons who can deceive me (of whom there are surely many.)

For the record, this is such a big problem that ODP management doesn't think I'm protesting enough. (And for my editing-related activities I answer to them, not to you.)

I have been through the exercise of trying to figure out what an automated status checker could do. The first problem that always arises is not the spammer: it's the legitimate submitters. What, we ask, what POSSIBLE useful information could we give? What intimate details would make the slightest difference to them -- would effect their plans, actions, goals in any conceivable way?

And ... we've not gotten an answer. I really believe there is none.

Oh, people are very good at "wanting." But so often they don't stop to THINK what difference it would make.

I just hope that one of your volunteer editors has enough interest in genealogy to pick this one up, it looks like its pretty low on the "interested editors" list!

Click to expand...

What makes you think no editors are interested? I for one am extremely interested and have spent many hours working on Personal Pages W to reorganize build and subcat it. Other editors have been diligently going through top to bottom editing descriptions, cleaning errors etc. So I am not sure what leads you to believe that it was "low on the interested editors list". I do not edit in Personal Pages R or Surnames yet ( I hope shortly that a request to do so will be approved) so I cannot comment on the status of the submission.

I have not attempted to do a detailed review of your site to determine list-ability. I simply glanced quickly to obtain a general idea of what the site was about. I can tell you that Personal Pages/R is the proper location for this listing (if that is where you submitted it-if not rest assured someone will move it). It pertains to your particular single family line (and that of related lines within your family tree) so Personal Pages would be correct. Surnames/R would apply if your site was about a particular surname's origin and history and not about any particular family line.

Just be assured there are many editors who are interested and are actively working in Genealogy, so it is not interest deficient in anyway. Just for your information, it has been my experience that submissions have been deficient not editor interest. The vast majority of my time is spent simply browsing sites like genealogy.com, rootsweb.com and familysearch.org just looking for good sites absent from the directory.

Hopefully this sheds a little light on the situation.

Thanks.

drawls said:

Thanks for the suggestion re domain name, don't know a lot about that but will look into it.

Click to expand...

I advise try godaddy.com and namecheap.com. I have experience with both. If you have your own domain you have full control and it's easy to prove who is boss. Being able to demostrate to people like ODP that you are who you represent to be, for instance by erecting something as simple as a "this site has moved to..." saves you and others a *lot* of time and hassle.

The "IT Manger's Summary" is that you domain stays the same no matter how much your provider moves around. And you have full control. Your "name" is on it.

Get a domain with a decent provider and you eliminate most of your troubles. The next part is where more troubles begin... Hopefully you'll be able to point your domain at a a decent, and free, provider. If not you have to find a paid webhost; and that is cowboy territory(!!!)

...but the good news for ODP is that is none of their concern. Or Google's. Any problems with the webhost and you'll have the luxury of haggling with them while behind their backs you point your domain at the second provider on your list. No need to resort to emails to Google or ODP ...or filling this www up with even more redundant addresses. So you see that getting your own domain makes the whole thing a lot less "noisy".

You've clearly put effort into your site. Investment of a bit of time and a few dollars is a wise one indeed.

For more on getting webspace, and domains - this has been a decent community in the past: http://www.hosthideout.com

Thanks again

Thanks for all your feedback, answers & suggestions. Will go back to the Family research now! Logon pages have now been removed.

From the Scenic Klondike Hills, Grey County, Ontario, Canada.
Web Site:- http://users.auracom.com/drawls

New listing

My web site is now listed under http://dmoz.org/Society/Genealogy/Personal_Pages/R/
thanks to all concerned, just one question.

Why can't I find the listing with the DMOZ search engine, if I scroll down there it is, but a search of "rawls" or other words in the title comes up "not found". Does it take a while for it to get included by the search engine?

From the Scenic Klondike Hills, Grey County, Ontario, Canada.
Web Site:- http://users.auracom.com/drawls

Yes, it takes quite a while for the search function to spider the new stuff. It will happen soon.