Getting listed and category issues

I tried to get our site listed back in 2007. So far we have had no luck regarding the application, I received no confirmation e-mail that the submission was received and in a previous post I was told by an editor that the application did not exist on the system.

We decided to submit the site one more time this year as we noticed that the category finally had an editor, I am not sure if this has been received. Also we have noticed that in the past week the editor has left the category and I fear it is very unlikely that we will get listed.

Our site is the 3rd largest resource in our specific industry and is the largest database of user submitted content of this type in Europe, for this reason we do strongly believe that our site and the services we provide to the members of our industry should be noted in the category we have submitted to.

So my question is what would be the best way to get listed on DMOZ? Back in 2008 an editor responded to a question on the forum regarding the nature of an editors role within the Open Directory Project, they said:

"Reviewing sites" doesn't mean "reviewing suggested sites". Yes, building up the directory is one of the duties an editor has but if they can do that by searching out sites or finding URLs on brochures, sides of trucks, store windows, etc., then that's great. In many categories, that's a better choice than wading through the spam that is suggested. The pool of suggested sites is just one tool an editor can use to find listable sites.

Click to expand...

I am curious if the category we submitted to is one that has a great deal of spam to wade through, perhaps all categories are like that, I do not know. I know the category is somewhat neglected and could use work before any new sites are added.

Interestingly one of our competitors purchased a domain that is listed in the category, this domain now points to their online store. I would say from my point of view the DMOZ listing is now irrelevant, why was this not changed by the editor who was just in the category? Also there is a website in the category that has not been changed since 1997 (the category is fast changing and this information has become outdated)
One more example that caught my eye is a site that has now changed their direction completely, they used to offer free resources they now offer an industry specific news resource, which is a fantastic resource and should be kept but the description certainly needs changing to reflect what the company does.

I appreciate an editor is a volunteer, it is not a job and so there is no requirement to do anything at all. I also respect that editors have a mammoth job when it comes to editing categories and searching through the plethora of new site submissions, unless they favor the approach noted above by the other editor. However, it is disappointing to see, in my opinion, that the category is neglected and a great shame to see an editor leave this category.

JonLloyd said:

I tried to get our site listed back in 2007. So far we have had no luck regarding the application, I received no confirmation e-mail that the submission was received and in a previous post I was told by an editor that the application did not exist on the system.

Click to expand...

A lot of misconceptions in this first paragraph.
- you can not try to get a site listed : you can only suggest a site for review
- an application is something to become an editor not to suggest a website
- when you suggest a website a conformation is shown directly ons creen, no mails will be send ever
- that previous post was about an editor application, not about suggesting a website, these are completely different situations

We decided to submit the site one more time this year as we noticed that the category finally had an editor, I am not sure if this has been received. Also we have noticed that in the past week the editor has left the category and I fear it is very unlikely that we will get listed.

Click to expand...

see our FAQ: There's no editor for my category - will my suggestion ever get reviewed?

Our site is the 3rd largest resource in our specific industry and is the largest database of user submitted content of this type in Europe, for this reason we do strongly believe that our site and the services we provide to the members of our industry should be noted in the category we have submitted to.

Click to expand...

This is not something we look at when reviewing a website.
We only care about content.

So my question is what would be the best way to get listed on DMOZ? Back in 2008 an editor responded to a question on the forum regarding the nature of an editors role within the Open Directory Project, they said:

Click to expand...

That role did not change. After you suggested the website there is nothing more you (or anybody else) can do to get the website listed. When time comes it will be reviewed. That time can be today, tomorrow, next week, next month, next year or even later. Noone knows.

I am curious if the category we submitted to is one that has a great deal of spam to wade through, perhaps all categories are like that, I do not know. I know the category is somewhat neglected and could use work before any new sites are added.

Click to expand...

All categories need attention.

Interestingly one of our competitors purchased a domain that is listed in the category, this domain now points to their online store. I would say from my point of view the DMOZ listing is now irrelevant, why was this not changed by the editor who was just in the category? Also there is a website in the category that has not been changed since 1997 (the category is fast changing and this information has become outdated)
One more example that caught my eye is a site that has now changed their direction completely, they used to offer free resources they now offer an industry specific news resource, which is a fantastic resource and should be kept but the description certainly needs changing to reflect what the company does.

Click to expand...

You can tell us about such situations by writing a post in the "Quality Control Feedback" part of this forum. Please first read the threads marked "Important".

So my question is what would be the best way to get listed on DMOZ?

Click to expand...

You already know the answer. Suggest your website to the one best category and somebody will process it in time. If it's listable, it'll either be listed or moved to a better category for further evaluation.

However, it is disappointing to see, in my opinion, that the category is neglected and a great shame to see an editor leave this category.

Click to expand...

That's the nature of a volunteer organisation. If nobody's interested in doing the work, nobody does the work. AOL Legal won't allow us to use handcuffs and whips.

There is no need to re-suggest your website and doing so could be counter-productive because a later suggestion overwrites any earlier one.

Before responding, please read this forum's FAQ (linked at the top of most screens)

After reading this thread I decided to join the forum.

I totaly agree with JonLloyd. The review and approval mechanism needs clarification big time. I feel like I hearing SEO experts trying to figure out how google works (might be this, or this, could be, that or eventually) No one ever knows!. Volunteer or not, this kind of mechanism should have some kind of follow up system that would allow you to track the suggestion... nothing complicated and would prevent much frustration from people trying to submit a site into the directory.

So we now have two people in this thread who don't understand what we're about but they do agree with each other. Did you bother to read the announcement right at the top of this forum? It explains why we don't provide status reports. Have you read the forum's FAQ?

The review and approval mechanism needs clarification big time.

Click to expand...

The most efficient way of suggesting a site is to do it once--as the submittal policies clearly state, and as anyone can do, perfectly well, with the current functionality. That's why the "need" you mention receives so little concern.

Can I just interject here. hutcheson, at no point did I say that the review and approval system needs clarification (although it would be nice to have some clarification that our website has been added to the list, this was simply not the point). I have read the FAQs and all submission information at least 5 times now and believe that I understand the process.

My post was merely related to getting listed in other ways than through the submission tool. As I quoted before, an editor openly said that some editors may prefer to search out URLs to add rather than use the spam infested tool that is the submission process. In my post I stated we were the 3rd largest marketplace for the specific content that relates to the category in question, to which pvgool's response was:

This is not something we look at when reviewing a website.
We only care about content.

Click to expand...

I tried to suggest in my post that I understood that quality content is king. If I didn't believe this I wouldn't be posting here at all in fact we would not be in business in the first place.

I've been told many times that the directory is to provide content rich websites which add significant value to that category and ultimately the users of the database. In my post I was also noting that the specific category I was relating to does not hold true to this philosophy and as pvgool quite rightly said:

All categories need attention.

Click to expand...

I honestly believe that using the submission tool is not always the best way to get a site listed. If a website becomes highly popular, has a great deal of online and offline marketing and PR there could be an opportunity to get listed organically as editors may see the website and wish to add it themselves. I honestly can't imagine popular sites such as Twitter, YouTube, Facebook or other such giants ever needing to use the submission tool. I am sure any editor would love to be the one to add the giant to the directory.

Getting listed in the directory is not of the greatest importance to us. The reason I am posting here is that it is simply frustrating to see older websites, sometimes irrelevant sites in such a fast growing and every changing category (especially when it is preached that the directory is all about quality content and this is what is instilled in editors). Relevant sites, including our competitors, have every right to be listed, they are great resources, however newer sites seem to be left in the dark (looking at this specific category only). So it is simply the principle of the thing.

As I said, I understand that editors are volunteers, I also understand that they may or may not have a true understanding of a particular category. Some resources might look fantastic to those inexperienced with the field and that's fine, it is just sad to see that an editor, who possibly has an interest, has left without making any changes (this is another reason for my frustrated venting and honest question about getting listed).

So Jim, when you said:

You already know the answer.

Click to expand...

I actually don't know that answer hence asking. If you can honestly say to me that the giants of the online world used the submission tool like everyone else, or all sites used the submission tool to get listed then I would be happy that everyone is on an even playing field when it comes to getting listed. This is a question which I already know the answer to, so no need to reply.

The submission tool is just the obvious way of getting your site seen by an editor and eventually listed in the directory, but this is available to mass and open to spam and it has been suggested that this is simply one tool available to editors for submission of sites.

Lets face it, the whole directory is geared towards the interest of its editors and not towards adding highly relevant and enriching content to all categories. For example, If no editors are interested in the particle physics category then it will suffer. Perhaps it may be a solution for the directory to hire someone (actually pay someone) to recruit volunteers who specialize in a certain category or subject. I believe there should be more prestige that comes with being an editor, currently I don't know any editors who are well known for being experts in a particular field or category, there must be many out there I am sure.
I think the directory tries to bring false prestige by being very selective about the editors who are accepted and I am sure many factors are considered such as experience in the given field etc, but as editors progress on the site they are given more control and ultimately get the chance to edit categories which they may hold very little experience in.

This is just a suggestion and I know I will probably be pointed towards the "Quality Control Feedback" part of the forum, I am happy for this thread to be moved completely if you feel that would be more relevant.

Also I would like to point out that the category I have tried to get listed in seems to have been dropping websites since 2001 (checked on archive.org) and in fact I went through all the websites since I posted here the first time (there are only 49 sites so it didn't take long) there has been 4 urls added and 3 changes to a listing name (mainly adding a keyword in) all of this hard work in this many years... WOW! Juust to reiterate what it says on the directory about page:

The web continues to grow at staggering rates. Automated search engines are increasingly unable to turn up useful results to search queries. The small paid editorial staffs at commercial directory sites can't keep up with submissions, and the quality and comprehensiveness of their directories has suffered. Link rot is setting in and they can't keep pace with the growth of the Internet.

Click to expand...

If this is the case why am I able to find far more relevant sources of sites and information on smaller, even unpaid, directories?

I could suggest more urls that should be dropped but there are plenty that could also be added. Our likely hood of getting added seems to be slim, as 1 URL seems to be added in a year, seems it would be easier to be removed than added. I would recommend that anyone does the same: go to archive.org and check the differences between earlier listings and newer and see if it is completely neglected category or actually has some history of being amended, otherwise I would say what all editors seem to say, use the submission tool and then be patient and by patient they mean to say "forget about us and then one day stumble on a link from the directory pointing to your website."

This does spark another concern for me, if sites take years to review then surely stale links then become a burden to the editor. Not every website stays live for 3+ years and in that time a lot could have changed. Perhaps, and this is just an assumption, that list is so old and so long that an editor takes one look at it and decides it really is not worth going through them and sources these alternative means of adding sites. Anyhow, please do not brand this post as simple ranting and venting, I do have honest concerns and I do wonder what editors think to this.

I honestly did not want to reply the quote below really "inspired" me to post here.

So we now have two people in this thread who don't understand what we're about but they do agree with each other.

Click to expand...

I am sorry but we were talking about two completely different things. I am sure you will still say that I do not understand what DMOZ is about, who does these days?

Seems different editors carry completely different understandings and the web is also littered with blogs, forums, PR stories claiming the directory to have very different values. The actual directory does not contain any mission or value statements for the site or specific philosophy, sure it contains plenty of info about what it is and how to add sites or become and editor etc but nothing substantial.

I know it is the largest human-edited directory on the web, I know that editors

take great care about the quality of the directory

Click to expand...

, I even know

The Open Directory Project's goal is to produce the most comprehensive directory of the web, by relying on a vast army of volunteer editors.

Click to expand...

but please tell me exactly what you feel the project is all about? I read a lot about editors saying something akin to "you just don't understand" perhaps you want to evaluate why so many people don't understand?

Maybe we just don't think the same as editors and have the same information available to us as the editors, perhaps being internal instills something more than just what is detailed in the FAQs, about page and other generalized information pages on the directory site? It would be interesting to hear if there are any differences.

I am never satisfied with anyone telling me that I simply don't understand something, I enjoy learning and developing my knowledge so that I can inform those who ask my advise, so please humor me and tell me exactly what I should know.

We're just a bunch of hobbyists building and maintaining a directory for the fun of it. That's it. All else follows from that.

I think the directory tries to bring false prestige by being very selective about the editors who are accepted

Click to expand...

Dunno about the false prestige, whatever that means, but yes we're very selective.

I decline all applications with integrity issues.
I decline all applications that are self-serving.
I decline all applications that have communications problems.
I decline applications where the applicant has no clue what the chosen category is about.

Most others, I accept (over 2000 so far). The process is very similar to evaluating resumes or CVs in real life.

Am I too harsh? If so, which of the above problems would you accept?

JonLloyd said:

If no editors are interested in the particle physics category then it will suffer.

Click to expand...

100% correct. If noone is interested in a subject nothing will happen in the categories about that subject, except for some hourkeeping.

Perhaps it may be a solution for the directory to hire someone (actually pay someone) to recruit volunteers

Click to expand...

Only problem is that it is against DMOZ philosophy.
It is just a bunch of people who like to collect and organize bookmarks. Instead of doing it each for ourself we combined forces and give everybody the opportunity to use the results of our hobby. That is all it is, nothing more.

I think the directory tries to bring false prestige by being very selective about the editors who are accepted and I am sure many factors are considered such as experience in the given field etc,

Click to expand...

We are not selective. Everybody who is willing to follow our simple guidelines can become an editor. It is a very easy process that can be mastered by eveybody.

Maybe we just don't think the same as editors and have the same information available to us as the editors, perhaps being internal instills something more than just what is detailed in the FAQs, about page and other generalized information pages on the directory site? It would be interesting to hear if there are any differences.

Click to expand...

There are no secret pages with hidden information for editors only. Everything is available for everybody to read on our public pages.

I am never satisfied with anyone telling me that I simply don't understand something, I enjoy learning and developing my knowledge so that I can inform those who ask my advise, so please humor me and tell me exactly what I should know.

Click to expand...

What you should know: DMOZ is overrated by webdesigners and SEO people, it is not a magical tool on the road to success.

pvgool said:

What you should know: DMOZ is overrated by webdesigners and SEO people, it is not a magical tool on the road to success.

Click to expand...

One other thing:

If DMOZ is used by other entities for ranking sites and for search engine placement of sites, it is the work/choice/decision of those other entities to do that. DMOZ does not put itself in that position.

If you rely on your placement in Google, for example, and you do not place where you think you should in Google, you'd take it up with Google, wouldn't you? Likewise, if Google chooses to put some sort of value or premium on sites listed in DMOZ, it seems only fair that one would take that up with Google and not DMOZ. DMOZ is not responsible for Google's choices or actions.

it is not a magical tool on the road to success.

Click to expand...

No editor thinks it is (or if they do, they don't stay long). We are just volunteers spending some of our hobby time building a directory. Nothing magical about that.

You need to address your remarks to all the SEO "experts" and webmasters who seem unable to grasp the extremely simple concept of the Open Directory Project.