Google has become another M$CROSOFT

netbee

Member
Joined
Sep 8, 2006
Messages
2
Getting listed on DMOZ or Google has simply become impossible unless you have big $$'s to spend by hiring SEO (Search Engine Optimization) Gurus. If you happen to ask any question on these forums, the standard answer is READ THE FAQ. Another example is given below.

Q.> How long should I wait before I resubmit?

A.> The simple answer is "forever".

For small businesses and newer sites, the only way to get indexed on web is by submitting your site to other search engines. Also start recommending alternative search engines like Yahoo or allthewb to your clients. You can also show their logo and link to them on your web page.

Google has become too big to listen to any constructive feedback or offer any help. It will die its natural death like many other products on internet.

Examples:

1) M$'s internet explorer has been practically replaced by firefox.
2) Adobe's Acrobat reader has been replaced by a smaller better product foxit reader (from a little known company foxit software)

The sooner yahoo (or any other search engine) replaces google as the market leader, the better off everyone will be.
 

spectregunner

Member
Joined
Jan 23, 2003
Messages
8,768
Not entirely sure what that rant has to do with the identification of possible bugs and features in the ODP listings/database.

I would suggest that you read the FAQ to determine what constitues an on-topic posting, but you seem to ahve an aversion to anything other than custom answers, so I'm really not sure what to tell you.

MSIE has, but most accounts 85% of the global pc browser market, and while you would probably find a higher percentage of firefox/Mozilla/Opera lovers within the editor community (many of us like to think we are enlightened about such things) surely few of us would be so bold as to suggest that the Microsoft browser have been replaced by anything, other than beta copies of the next version. I'm in Firefox as I type this, and I ahve Mozilla open on my other screen.

Any suggestion that the Acrobat Reader has been replaced is, in 2006, quite far fetched.

Getting to the crux of your post -- linking SEO spending to getting listed in the ODP (and then the Google directory by proxy) belies the facts.

There is really only one way to get into the ODP directory: produce a site with copious amounts of truly unique content. Paying for SEO is, when you come right down to it, is generally counterproductive as the vast majority of the people who profess expertise in SEO have little or no understanding of the concept of unique content, have little or no understanding of the critical ODP concept of submit once to the single best category; adn think that things like hidden content and invisible backlinks are somehow productive in the long run.

The "SEO is King" concept also ignores how a healthy percentage of sites get added to the directory. Not through the suggestion process as you might imagine, but usually through individual editor initiative. Editors are (or can be) a curious lot. We look for websites as we do our daily commute, when we are getting our hair done, and when we are shopping. Next time you see someone grabbing one of every copy of the free newspapers/magazines/handouts on the corner, there is a reasonable chance that it is an ODP editor looking for listing fodder in unlikely places. SEO cannot impact any of that.

Finally, whatever Yahoo, or MSN, or Fred's Free directory do to google will not impact our mission by one iota. Well, not in the way that you think. If google went away tomorrow, the ODP editors would keep plugging away, building what we are building. Our job would be a bit easier, though, because all the misguided SEOs and Spammers would stop creating extra work for us, and we could better focus on building the directory.
 

hutcheson

Curlie Meta
Joined
Mar 23, 2002
Messages
19,136
It sounds like you've been dangerously exposed to the SEO mindset. It sounds like you think it matters to a business whether its website is "listed in Google."

I don't believe that. I've actually talked to too many successful proprietors of small businesses. And they either didn't have websites at all, or didn't even know about the ODP. (Whenever I deal with a small businessman, or think about dealing with a particular small business, you see, I check these things.)

In my experience, professionals don't whine about Walmart having a larger marketing budget. They don't hector Saatchi about changing its price sheet, or CNN about giving them free publicity. They are prepared to pay for what advertising they think they need, and they focus on advertising that's effective (rather than trying to hire big-name/big-money marketing firms.) They know they must do this, because they know they will fail if they don't; and if they fail it will be altogether their own responsibility.

Anyone who doesn't have that attitude, isn't a small businessman. He's a big parasite.

As for "new" sites -- yes, the way the world has always been, a real reputation doesn't come instantly, it follows only a long period of consistent achievement. Even the best legal blog on the net took almost two years of slow growth before the news-media noticed (although it was listed in the ODP after only a few months.)

And the way the world has always been, there are some people who expect to be able to use PR to achieve instant reputation without the necessity of showing anything at all. And they are usually frustrated.

Google won't ever change THAT, it focuses on recognition of a site by other sites. The ODP won't ever change that, even with its own systematic bias in favor of small sites. Both of them try (in different ways) to recognize (some form of) achievement. And both of them may (in different ways) provide more competition for sites both great and small -- by making people more aware of the sites that have already established authoritativeness or achieved a reputation. And this may make it harder for sites without unique sources of content to survive. (Another way of saying the same thing: this may make it unnecessary for sites without unique sources of content to exist at all!)

But in the end, they are just a search engine and directory, not a bloody immantization of the eschaton. The ODP itself is not and cannot be a monopoly: it's just one group of people who collaborate in finding information that they think is useful. Anyone else can go look for information on their own; anyone else can choose to use (or not use) any of the information the ODP provides. Despite the thousands of people that have contributed millions of hours of effort to the ODP, so far as Google is concerned, it's just another website (well, maybe, just two other websites) with no more intrinsic authority than Joe Blow's Blog. The only authority the ODP has (in Google's eyes) is what other websites link to it.

And, for that matter, Google isn't and can't be a monopoly either. ITS only authority is the number of people who think it gives them more information than its competitors do. Google would be replaced by a truly superior product just as fast as Google displaced the spam-smothered search engines of the 90's.

Of course, any such Google replacement would almost certainly be much harder on new sites than Google is -- because you know as well as I do that "new sites" are far more likely than established sites to be pure affiliate/doorway/MADFADS/etc. spam -- and spam is the major problem for search engines -- and therefore any truly superior search engine will have to take both of those facts into account.

It would be a pity if affiliate/etc. spammers forced the search engines even further away from listing new, small sites, as they have already slowed the rate at which ODP editors find legitimate sites. But the spammers are pitiless -- they do not care how many people they hurt, just so long as it gets them another potential pizzley pittance of advertising revenue.
 

mandar-seo

Member
Joined
Jun 22, 2006
Messages
14
This debate seems to be too good to leave. What I think is the one who stops updating will die. Then be it Google or Acrobat.
Remember the days when everybody was loving Unix system. But now most of the PC around the world have Windows loaded on it. Simply because Unix didn't updated itself (read as didn't brought something easier for SOHO users).

With regards,
Mandar Thosar
 

Dulac

Member
Joined
Nov 9, 2006
Messages
6
Quality directories like this are not usually free. I do not see the connection in this rant. It takes time for quality even more so when there is no profit gain. Soon as that DB problem is fixed the directory should be great again for non-profit people like me. I also study SEO and there is ethical SEO. A good SEO will build content people want and allow links to naturally occur without having to fuss too much with backlinking and ect. Good SEOs also link to good directories that are related to their site. If resource-zone allowed spammers or low quality sites to submit in their directory than it would depreciate. That would be bad for non-profit and small business sites. Bait(with useful content) and wait! Work on your content while things get sorted out bro.
 
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