How can I recommend DMOZ to my clients?

Allfey · Nov 9, 2005

Hi everyone,

I'm a little confused and frustrated to be honest. I'm a search engine marketing specialist based in Scotland in the UK. I've submitted http://www.e-prominence.co.uk a few times now and still have had no success. Its more frustrating when clients do a search for my company and nothing comes up! How can i be expected to recommend a DMOZ listing to my clients when I don't have a listing myself? You see my point i'm sure.

I've designed the site completely in XHTML and CSS with few graphics and good content which i update on an almost daily basis so please please please can someone explain what i'm supposed to do?

Thanks for any help.

Andrew Allfrey

pvgool · Nov 9, 2005

The first thing you could do is to understand what DMOZ is and how it works (IMHO essential to know for a SEM specialist).
You could start reading http://dmoz.org/about.html and http://dmoz.org/guidelines/

windharp · Nov 9, 2005

... and the FAQ of this forum, which basically deals with your question.

Allfey · Nov 9, 2005

I already understand the idea behind DMOZ and fully support the ideas and reasons for the way it operates. However it's a little embarassing to not be listed when a client says "so why arent you listed then?" I'm not having a rant here just trying to overcome a major problem as i see it!

pvgool said:
The first thing you could do is to understand what DMOZ is and how it works (IMHO essential to know for a SEM specialist).
You could start reading http://dmoz.org/about.html and http://dmoz.org/guidelines/

motsa · Nov 9, 2005

Unfortunately, there's nothing you can do to get your site listed beyond creating a listable site and then suggesting it. The period of time that it may take for it to eventually be reviewed is completely outside of your control and is something that we can't estimate or expedite for you.

jimnoble · Nov 9, 2005

I'm not having a rant here just trying to overcome a major problem as i see it!

You seem to be thinking that we're providing a free service to webmasters; we're not.

Assuming that you've suggested your URL to an appropriate category, a volunteer will volunteer to process it for the benefit of the directory and our surfers in due course.

If you suggested it to an inappropriate category, the volunteer will move it to the correct one where it will await the attentions of another volunteer at some time.

I'm sure you'll have deduced the benefits of suggesting it to the correct category to start with.

andysands · Nov 9, 2005

If you have business premises in Galashiels - you might want to consider submitting to your regional locality category as well as to the topical Computers category for SEO.

e.g.
http://dmoz.org/Regional/Europe/United_Kingdom/Scotland/Borders/Galashiels/Business_and_Economy

Alucard · Nov 9, 2005

Allfey said:
it's a little embarassing to not be listed when a client says "so why arent you listed then?"

Understandable. But this is a good opportunity to present the ODP in a more realistic light - what it is and what it isn't. There are many things that an SEO can do to promote a website - many things that are under their control. And there are some things that aren't.

An SEO can not control the word-of-mouth that a site gets - if it sucks, it sucks, and you arne't going to get repeat visitors no matter how much you promote it. In a similar way, you can not control whether or when it gets an ODP listing, what the description of the site says, or what category it gets listed in.

If I were in SEO (which I am not) and had clients to deal with, I would talk about the ODP in terms of it being a bonus for a website marketing campaign, not a necessary part. If you get in, then it is only a sign that some editor felt that the site was worthy. If you don't, then it doesn't automatically follow that the opposite is true - it could easily be that no editor has reviewed the site yet.

This does two things - it sets a more realistic expectation for your clients, and it avoids painting your own website in a bad light.

The fact is that the SEO and Web Design categories are some of the most difficult categories to get into - due to the number of submissions, and the limited number of volunteer editors who are willing to slog through them. If your businesses have a strong local presence, I think that (based on my own observations) you will have much better luck getting them listed than your own company.

None of this reflects on either your, or your client's websites, it is merely the way that the ODP works.

I hope this helps you in your dialogue with your clients.

Allfey · Nov 9, 2005

Thanks for your thoughts

Thanks to everyone for your posts and advice. Unfortunately the majority of my competitors all seem to have a DMOZ listing and despite previous attempts at convincing potential clients that DMOZ isn't necessarily as important as everyone makes out, this seems to fall on deaf ears.

As a company looking to hire an SEO consultant I don't think i'd look at a company that wasn't in DMOZ. Anyway it looks asthough I'll just have to lump it and keep my fingers crossed.

Thanks to all who have posted anyway. Back to the drawing board i think :-(

Best Regards,

Allfey

Alucard said:
Understandable. But this is a good opportunity to present the ODP in a more realistic light - what it is and what it isn't. There are many things that an SEO can do to promote a website - many things that are under their control. And there are some things that aren't.

An SEO can not control the word-of-mouth that a site gets - if it sucks, it sucks, and you arne't going to get repeat visitors no matter how much you promote it. In a similar way, you can not control whether or when it gets an ODP listing, what the description of the site says, or what category it gets listed in.

If I were in SEO (which I am not) and had clients to deal with, I would talk about the ODP in terms of it being a bonus for a website marketing campaign, not a necessary part. If you get in, then it is only a sign that some editor felt that the site was worthy. If you don't, then it doesn't automatically follow that the opposite is true - it could easily be that no editor has reviewed the site yet.

This does two things - it sets a more realistic expectation for your clients, and it avoids painting your own website in a bad light.

The fact is that the SEO and Web Design categories are some of the most difficult categories to get into - due to the number of submissions, and the limited number of volunteer editors who are willing to slog through them. If your businesses have a strong local presence, I think that (based on my own observations) you will have much better luck getting them listed than your own company.

None of this reflects on either your, or your client's websites, it is merely the way that the ODP works.

I hope this helps you in your dialogue with your clients.

oneeye · Nov 9, 2005

Anything to do with web services is greatly oversubscribed with suggestions and this is unlikely to change. That may not be the same for your clients so it is perfectly feasibly, indeed likely, that some of them would be accepted long before anyone looks at your site.

I don't think i'd look at a company that wasn't in DMOZ.

The vast majority of your competitors are not listed and it is an area of the directory that is of dubious value from a directory angle - who would deliberately go look for a web services company beginning with "E". Local businesses might be looking for someone local though so the Regional route suggested might be far more beneficial to you and add more value to our listings from this side of the fence.

Your reputation should be based on your effectiveness at getting clients' sites into the directory and that is based on ensuring that the submissions are only of genuine original websites crammed with original content, and titled and described according to our published guidelines. If you do that and don't engage in the temptation to keyword stuff the descriptions and send us fraternal mirrors and multiple related sites you will find your submissions rapidly acquire respect amongst editors. That can do no harm to you or your clients and will make you stand out somewhat amongst your competitors and standing out (in that way) is often what gets a good site reviewed quicker than one of the pack.

Allfey · Feb 23, 2006

Will I ever get a listing?

Hi there,

I'm an SEO company with a completely search engine friendly website that no search engine should have any difficulty in listing. We also use best practice techniques for our own site and our clients. I'm getting increasingly frustrated about the length of time it's taking to get a listing however and despite a few attempts to submit my site both geographically in the Uk and through the relevant services section I still have no listing. I first submitted my site over 7 months ago now.

Please can someone give me any suggestions before I pull all my hair out?

Allfey

arubin · Feb 23, 2006

Allfey said:
Please can someone give me any suggestions before I pull all my hair out?

Stick to one thread for a single topic?

Seriously, there's nothing more you can do, if your web site has the information your customers are looking for (and indication of your location, if you want a Regional listing).

Allfey · Feb 23, 2006

Thanks for your thoughts

I've even tried a geographocal listing for a small town in Scotland called Galashiels where my company is based. Surely it shouldn't take 7 months to get a listing within that category? I'm still completely confused. Given the importance that Google gives to DMOZ is this really fair in such a competitve online market? If my site was rubbish and poor quality then fair enough but it's not.

Anyway as you say i suppose there's nothing I can do. Maybe I should just start selling potatoes online .... I might get a listing then!

motsa · Feb 23, 2006

Stick to one thread for a single topic?

What an excellent idea.

. I've combined your threads.

monayuki · Feb 23, 2006

I've even tried a geographocal listing for a small town in Scotland called Galashiels where my company is based.

Thats very good for your site.

Surely it shouldn't take 7 months to get a listing within that category?

Maybe you have'nt read about the FAQ section which I suggest you better do before asking for a time frame which will give you the answers you need.

I'm still completely confused. Given the importance that Google gives to DMOZ is this really fair in such a competitve online market? If my site was rubbish and poor quality then fair enough but it's not.

The problem is that you rely much on a listing which as an SEO company supposed to be focused on site improvements in which Google can catch, placing you on a top spot before being or not being listed in DMOZ. Putting a time frame of getting listed and asking the impossible since the editor in your suggested area is pure volunteer and was not asked of any deadline to put sites whether they are of quality. Only you can make your site marketable, profitable and of quality by your own hands and creativity not DMOZ.

jimnoble · Feb 23, 2006

I first submitted my site over 7 months ago now.

Not according to our records.

Given the importance that Google gives to DMOZ

Please take that up with Google - it's not something within our control.

What you seem to be asking is that we should schedule some volunteer editor to work to your priorities rather than his/her own. Trust me, it isn't going to happen.

Please bear in mind that we have around 8000 editors looking after around 700,000 categories. That's about 90 categories per editor on average. In practice, small locality categories such as Galashiels are visited by an editor about once every 6 months (with a large standard deviation). Work was last done in Galashiels on October 2nd 2005 when all outstanding listing suggestions were processed. We have no idea when an editor will next visit.

Study of this forum's FAQ should give you more detailed answers.

shadow575 · Feb 23, 2006

Allfey said:
I'm getting increasingly frustrated about the length of time it's taking to get a listing however and despite a few attempts to submit my site both geographically in the Uk and through the relevant services section I still have no listing. I first submitted my site over 7 months ago now.

Allfey said:
I've even tried a geographocal listing for a small town in Scotland called Galashiels where my company is based. Surely it shouldn't take 7 months to get a listing within that category? I'm still completely confused.
Given the importance that Google gives to DMOZ is this really fair in such a competitve online market?

Sorry to hear you are still confused and becoming frustrated too. Let me try and clarify a couple of apparent miss-understandings with regards to dmoz that might help a bit:

The nature of the directory, being volunteer run means there is no way to predict a time frame for when a site suggestion will be reviewed. 7 months isn't that great a length of time, even for a Regional suggestion.
The directory is NOT a listing service, so there are no guarantees that any site suggestion will be included, period. It is based soley on the content of the site and the discretion of the volunteer reviewing the suggestion.
Submit and forget is always the best policy, move on and continue to make your site useful for your customers.
The importance that Google (or any of the numerous downstream data users for that matter) does or does not place on a dmoz listing is completely irrelevant to editors when reviewing a site. The site itself is the only thing that concerns us.
Site suggestions are just one resource editors use to find and list sites. In some areas they have proven an unreliable one at that. There is no obligation to review them in any order nor is there a requirement to review them as a priority.
Some editors find it more productive to seek out sites on their own to be listed and rarely visit the suggested sites pool.

Allfey said:
If my site was rubbish and poor quality then fair enough but it's not.
Anyway as you say i suppose there's nothing I can do. Maybe I should just start selling potatoes online .... I might get a listing then!

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, site listings are based on content

There is nothing more that can be done from a suggestor's stand point. It is in the hands of the directories volunteer editors now. There is no way of predicting when one will have an opportunity to look at the suggestion. There is nothing that can be done to speed up the process.

Hope that helps at least to some extent.

How can I recommend DMOZ to my clients?

Allfey

Member

pvgool

kEditall/kCatmv

windharp

Meta/kMeta

Allfey

Member

motsa

jimnoble

DMOZ Meta

andysands

Alucard

Member

Allfey

Member

oneeye

Member

Allfey

Member

arubin

Editall/Catmv

Allfey

Member

motsa

monayuki

Member

jimnoble

DMOZ Meta

shadow575

kEditall/kCatmv