How to get a second chance as an editor?

I try to keep the discussion here in rather general level but take my own case as an example. I hope this is ok?

I used to be an editor in Regional/ category. I was kicked out only after about one month's editing. Since that I have asked three times to be reinstated but I have had no response. Last time was about a month ago.

It may have been that since I was rather a new editor I made some mistakes. However, those listed in http://dmoz.org/newsletter/2000Sep/removal.html do not apply. But in order to ask for reinstatement it would be very useful to know the very particular reason why my editor rights were removed. As I did quite a lot work in that category during my short editor period I would have thought that to be worth of at least telling me what I did wrong.

As my rights were removed almost immediately after cooling one site I believe that might have had something to do with the removal. And yes, I probably made one mistake since I did not ask a senior editor first. However, I read carefully guidelines and fora discussion related to the subject and followed them. Moreover, I personally have nothing to do with that site. I even had (and still have) my own site in the same category so I actually cooled my "competitor" -- although as my site is non-commercial I don't see others as competitors.

In general level I would like to know what are removed editor's rights to give a response if accused of abuse? If one is accused of self-promoting shouldn't one have a chance to explain that one has nothing to with the site one cooled, for instance? Or, if one is just considered to cool a site not worth of it isn't the removal of editor status a bit too strict response?

So, what I basically want to know is that how one can get a second chance as an editor if one doesn't even know why one was removed at the first place?

P.S. Zigga was not my editor name. I don't want to deal with that particular case in this thread but if someone is willing to check the grounds for my removal I can e-mail my editor name, category and other information needed privately.

So isn't this even worth of replying? Has been here for several days already...

Not really sure what you're looking for here. We don't discuss reasons for removal under any circumstances. If you feel you have been unfairly treated you can try to be reinstated or email ODP staff. See the Reinstatement section of the Guidelines for more information.

I understood that -- I read the guidelines (as i always do). "Specific complaints about being removed as an editor" is listed as a subject not to be discussed here. However, the questions I reveal here deal with the subject in a general level -- that should be a relevant topic.

So let me repeat my questions. The first, most general one is: how to get a second chance as an editor? And the more specific ones:

- If the reasons for removal given in ODP guidelines do not apply, how can one get to know why one was removed?

- After having used quite a time and effort for building the directory shouldn't one have right to know at least why one has been removed?

- If accused of self-promoting, how can one show that one does not have any connection with the site in question (if already removed from ODP)?

- If accused of cooling a site not worth of it -- and with no warnings before -- isn't removal of editor rights a bit too strict response?

And then I have one more which was not in my original post:

- If editor's profile still exists in ODP directory does that mean that one has not exactly been fired but just that one's categories have been removed? Would that mean that one could reapply to another category or to a sub-category of one's previous category and could one have better chances to get reinstated that way?

If these are not relevant discussion topics here then I am not able to read guidelines. Then it makes sense why I was removed. On the other hand, if those are -- then I would be very pleased if someone answered to them.

And one personal comment: I feel very frustrated that after updating category where substantial part of links were broken and having increased the number of listed sites by about 50 per cent I now just have to look as the category gets outdated again since almost nothing has happened there after I was removed (as I mention neither category name nor my editor name I believe this should be quite ok here, too).

One more question: Is it possible to see the status of reinstatement applications somehow (as it is possible to see the status of site submissions)? Maybe my application is just waiting in a queue. How long does it usually take to review them?

And thanks donaldb for answering. I forgot to say that in my last post.

Sorry, but when I say we do not discuss removals under any circumstances, I mean that in general, not just here. Please read the section about Account Removal. You can email staff@dmoz.org to appeal any decisions.

Personally I would say that it's time to move on with your life and persue other interests.

Thanks for quick reply, donaldb.

Yes, I noted that you said "under any circumstances" but in guidelines is said only about "specific complaints". Anyway, I was reluctant to write to staff earlier since I believe they already have a lot of job. I hoped I could have had some help here for writing the letter. To be able to focus on the very specific reasons for my removal would have helped both the work of ODP staff and of myself (as I believe that reinstatement applications are taken seriously).

You should not be worried about my life, donaldb. As a matter of fact, I find your comment quite inappropriate.

All I meant was that reinstatements of editors who were removed are very unlikely, and I don't know if you really want to spend the time persuing this when it's most likely not going to happen. Sorry if that line sounded inappropriate <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" alt="" />

The ODP takes a very strong stance against abuse. If your account was closed for abuse, you have already seen the following, which represents the position of the ODP's staff:

Your login was deactivated for one or more of the following reasons:

• Repeated failure to comply with the Open Directory community's editorial guidelines and policies.
• Continuous poor and/or abusive editing.
• Self-promotion and bias editing, including, but not limited to, cooling your own site, title or description manipulation, unfairly editing your owns sites or those with which you are affiliated.
• Unfairly tampering with competitors' listings and submissions.
• Inability to function well within the Open Directory community.
• Uncivil and intentionally disruptive behavor.
• Violation of Open Directory forum and email privacy.
• Spamming the directory.[/list:u]
  We do not disclose the specific details of login removals. However, the decision to deactivate your login was made by consensus of the meta community, and thoroughly reviewed by DMOZ staff to ensure that our decision was appropriate and warranted. Our decision to remove your login is final. Removed logins will not be reinstated, and you will not be granted a new login. We wish you the best of luck in your future endeavors.

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Yes I know and I agree -- one has to have strong stance against abuse. That's what I believe I was accused (although that has been a misunderstanding). However, I never got any message. Could that mean that there is some other reason, and not abuse? My login just ceased to work (actually I was logged in and reading fora when I was suddenly kicked out).

Would either you arlarson or donaldb be able to see the reason for my removal and informing me about it privately?

It would be lot easier to apply for reinstatement if I knew why I was removed in the first place. I can send my editor name and category to you, if you can do it. I can use the e-mail which is shown at my editor page (so that you can be sure that I am the same person).

Your message says that reinstatement is not even considered but that's not what is said in guidelines. Which one should one believe?

People ~are~ sometimes reinstated. I'm not a meta, but I know that. I see the reinstatements in the logs.

So, I would say it depends on why you were kicked out.

From what you say, I'm wondering...
Is it possible the computer kicked you out because of a corrupt password file? Did you ever try logging in a day or two later?

It is ~possible~ that you were kicked out by a computer glitch and not a person at all. If less than 4 months have passed, try your old editor name and password and see if you can get back in.

People ~are~ sometimes reinstated. I'm not a meta, but I know that. I see the reinstatements in the logs.

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The reinstatements that you are seeing in the logs are for timed out editors.

According to one of your reinstatement requests, which I have seen, you do indeed know why you were removed. You will not be reinstated; we do not reinstate editors who are removed for abusing their position in the directory. Period.

Curious to ask: how can you know that since I have not given neither my editor ID nor the category here publicly? And more to say, I was not editing in the region which is my current location (that you can see in my profile).

I'm guessing that you've already given enough information in this thread to enable the metas to track down who you were. But if you expect them to reveal all their secrets (say, for example, you were going to reapply under another editor name and try and hide the fact that you were kicked out before: and, therefore, wanted to know how metas find out people's track records) - then you've been mistaken.

I know a large number of the meta's know a hell of a lot about the internet and "social engineering" - and hence have many ways of finding out the truth behind aliases...But like magicians, if they reveal their secrets - then their whole purposes of being disappears.

Thanks beebware for quick reply. That's what I thought but I just want always to be explicit. And no worries, I'm not going to apply with a new ID but sure I will once again try with the old one.

I probably know now what in my editing was thought to be abusing -- although it surely is not. As it is a small region with one very important internet operator I think I was thought to spam the category when listing sites that they host under their domain. And when I finally even cooled their main site I was probably thought to make unfair promotion. But not listing sites which they host would be same as not listing sites hosted in GeoCities, for example.

I can be wrong with my speculations, of course. That's why I keep asking.

This thread has outlived its usefulness, and is already in violation of our Forum Guidelines. Zigga please understand you will not be reinstated, as enarra already pointed out.

We wish you all the best in your future endeavors.