I first submitted my domain in 2005...

Joined
Jan 9, 2008
Messages
4
I've been trying to get my site listed in the DMOZ since 2005. I haven't given up yet. Instead of submitting my site and patiently waiting month after month without any idea if my submission has been read and denied or not read at all, I've decided to take a more proactive stance. I have once again submitted my domain and I'm making this post to create a record of my submission.

I plan to do the following:

1) Submit site... Completed
2) Wait for 3 months... In progress
3) Follow up email to category editor
4) Wait for 3 months
5) Escalation email to category editor above the category
6) Wait for 3 months
7) Ask for assistance in the Open Directory Public Forum
8) Wait for 1 month
9) Escalation email to DMOZ senior staff and post to various forums seeking help.

Considering that no new websites have been added to this category during this time, it is obvious that the current editor could have ulterior motives for the excessively long delay. If any senior editor would like to know more about the site or category (which I am purposely not listing here,) please contact me.
 

spectregunner

Member
Joined
Jan 23, 2003
Messages
8,768
There is really only one step you took that matters:
1. suggested site

Editors are under absolutely no obligation to even read e-mails that come from people who suggest sites, let alone respond to them or take action.

There is no such thing as an escalated e-mail to the named category editor.

Considering that no new websites have been added to this category during this time, it is obvious that the current editor could have ulterior motives for the excessively long delay.

No such thing is obvious.

There is no committed timeline for reviewing a site suggestion, so delays are theoretically impossible, and cannot (by definition) be excessive.

It take take minutes to years for an editor to review a site suggestion. Editors work on their own timelines, not on the timelines of people who make suggestions.

You have now suggested your site at least twice. Either we will list it or we will not. We will review the suggestion at a time that is convenient for one of the 200+ editors who can edit in any given category.

There is nothing more that you can do.

The process is not interactive. Your effort to be proactive will have absolutely no impact on when your site suggestion is reviewed.

Please do not suggest your site again.
 

nea

Meta & kMeta
Curlie Meta
Joined
Mar 28, 2003
Messages
5,872
What spectregunner says, and also:

Where did you see any information that led you to believe that it would be useful or a good idea for you to write to any editor and/or staff? Please don't badger the editors; you have suggested the site twice, which means that you have ruled out the very small risk that the first suggestion was eaten by a bug. Hence, the site is now waiting for an editor to take an interest in editing the category in question. There is no reason whatsoever for you to write email to point out the fact that a site is waiting for review.

As spectregunner says, writing to editors and staff won't hinder your review (unless you do something really silly such as threaten or try to bribe an editor) but it will not speed it up either. The schedule you outline would have made sense if you had dealt with an organisation that offered a service to you as a website owner; as it is, it sounds like a waste of your own time.

Considering that no new websites have been added to this category during this time, it is obvious that the current editor could have ulterior motives for the excessively long delay.
It sounds much, much more likely that the category just hasn't attracted editor interest for a long time. Unfortunately that is the case for many categories. But there is no mechanism for forcing the volunteers (who do this in their spare time, needless to say) to work in areas they are not interested in. Neither senior editors, ODP staff or website owners have the power to do so.

[added: We understand that it is frustrating to wait for a long time. We really do, and we are not saying these things to annoy you, but because it is how the directory really works, and we would so much like to get people to understand this - because it would lessen their frustration.]
 
Joined
Jan 9, 2008
Messages
4
Obligations and Responsibilities

Like I said in the beginning, the only purpose of posting is to create some sort of record that I have submitted my site to the ODP on this particular date. That is it.

I totally understand that nobody is under any obligation to list any site within any given amount of time. If that were true, I would have had my site listed 18 months ago. Every webmaster knows that getting listed at the ODP is an extremely long process. However, that does not mean that category editors are free to do what they want. An editor can not, for example, use hype when describing a site. Mirror sites cannot be added. Sites that support hate and discrimination can not be listed. An editor cannot delete all sites from a category at will and leave only sites they own. Editors can’t take bribes or perform other acts of questionable ethics. An editor cannot do many things. The basic idea of being an editor is to make the ODP a better directory. Certain actions do harm. Those actions must be avoided. Therefore, it can be concluded that editors of the ODP are under the obligation to act ethically and improve the directory. (To say otherwise is to say that editors may act unethically and harm the directory). Editors therefore do have responsibilities and obligations to the ODP. Thus, the idea that because an editor is a volunteer and they are free to edit in any manner they choose (whether it harms the ODP or not) is clearly false.

I am sure that “spectregunner” agrees totally with the sentiment that editors are obligated not to harm the ODP and have the responsibility to act ethically (not to add hate sites for example).

It is true as spectregunner says that editors are free to review or not review a site as they wish. Nobody can force an editor to list sites if they do not want to do so. If an editor logs in for one second, once within any 4-month period, they are not technically required to do more. Volunteers are, after all, volunteers and not paid employees. However, I disagree with this idea because it harms the ODP and editors are under the obligation not to do so. The purpose of being an editor of the ODP is not to be a lazy, inactive editor with lots of excuses about how much time it takes to review a site. The spirit of being an editor, and thus the responsibility of editors as stated above, is to make the ODP a better place. By saying, “I’ll edit what I want, when I want, how I want and nobody can tell me otherwise,” an editor is clearly saying that they have no obligation to improve the ODP. This is false. Editors have the obligation to edit and the responsibility to make the ODP the greatest human edited directory. If an editor disagrees and refuses to maintain a category due to claims of lack of time, then they should step down and let somebody edit who has an interest to do so. By not editing a category in a timely manner, an editor is damaging the ODP and harming the community and the project as a whole.

Spectregunner – please answer the following question. If an editor of a category does not edit it, only logs in and logs out every four months, is that person improving or harming the ODP?

As for the steps outlined in my post, Kalena Jordan of SiteProNews recommended those as a possibility. As for “ulterior motives,” any Google search on DMOZ and corruption will provide a substantial number of articles of ODP editor corruption. That idea is hardly new to me. You will find all kinds of forum posts from people claiming to be editors for the sole purpose of blocking other people from being listed. Also, people bribe lazy editors because lazy editors can’t be motivated to edit in any other manner. If the ODP was working in a logical manner, this sort of thing would never happen.

Lastly, I volunteered to edit this and related categories myself and was immediately denied. Claiming that there are not enough editors is a shallow argument. This forum constantly has people posting about wanting to become editors. As for me, though I am an expert on this particular category, I was told that there would be a “conflict of interest”. That assumption goes directly against the Editing Guidelines that state, “Everyone is welcome to apply to join the ODP, including those who own, maintain and promote websites. Editors may have business or other types of affiliations relevant to the categories they edit, and may add their own sites or sites with which they are affiliated.”

We could assume from this:
A) Adding an affiliate site (if it is worthy) is not a conflict.
B) Denying a competitor’s site (if it is worthy,) is a conflict.

Considering that no sites are being added now, the unacceptable conditions of “B” are already in effect. No worthy sites are being added. Under these circumstances, it does not make sense to deny a person with an interest in a category on the grounds of “conflict of interest.”
 

motsa

Curlie Admin
Joined
Sep 18, 2002
Messages
13,294
Like I said in the beginning, the only purpose of posting is to create some sort of record that I have submitted my site to the ODP on this particular date. That is it.
You could have done that without posting here. Some leniency was granted in leaving your original post intact but please do not make the mistake of coming back here to keep us updated on your efforts. Do what you feel you need to but track it on your own.
The basic idea of being an editor is to make the ODP a better directory. Certain actions do harm. Those actions must be avoided. Therefore, it can be concluded that editors of the ODP are under the obligation to act ethically and improve the directory. (To say otherwise is to say that editors may act unethically and harm the directory). Editors therefore do have responsibilities and obligations to the ODP. Thus, the idea that because an editor is a volunteer and they are free to edit in any manner they choose (whether it harms the ODP or not) is clearly false.
No one has ever said or even implied that editors are free to edit in any manner they want even if it harms the ODP. What has been said repeatedly is that editors are free to edit how and when they want within the guidelines. Our goal is the net improvement and growth of the directory. How editors choose to work as individuals within the guidelines and community to affect that net improvement is their own choice.
If an editor logs in for one second, once within any 4-month period, they are not technically required to do more.
If an editor of a category does not edit it, only logs in and logs out every four months, is that person improving or harming the ODP?
If an editor only logs in every four months and does nothing else, they'll time out. If an editor only logs in every four months to do an edit or two, they are still improving and not harming the ODP as long as they are editing according to the guidelines.
Editors have the obligation to edit and the responsibility to make the ODP the greatest human edited directory. If an editor disagrees and refuses to maintain a category due to claims of lack of time, then they should step down and let somebody edit who has an interest to do so. By not editing a category in a timely manner, an editor is damaging the ODP and harming the community and the project as a whole.
Editors have an obligation to leave the directory in better shape than when they started. That's it. You may not agree but it is what it is. A low-activity editor is not taking up space that someone else could be filling so the idea of getting rid of an editor who logs in to make a guidelines-compliant edit every couple of months makes little sense to me. Not editing is not harming the directory. It may not be improving it but it certainly isn't harming it.
As for the steps outlined in my post, Kalena Jordan of SiteProNews recommended those as a possibility.
And ODP editors have told you they aren't reasonable or appropriate.
Lastly, I volunteered to edit this and related categories myself and was immediately denied. Claiming that there are not enough editors is a shallow argument. This forum constantly has people posting about wanting to become editors. As for me, though I am an expert on this particular category, I was told that there would be a “conflict of interest”. That assumption goes directly against the Editing Guidelines that state, “Everyone is welcome to apply to join the ODP, including those who own, maintain and promote websites. Editors may have business or other types of affiliations relevant to the categories they edit, and may add their own sites or sites with which they are affiliated.”
You subsequently became an editor for an unrelated category so it's a bit disingenuous to imply that you were completely denied the chance to become an editor.
 
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