I keep getting rejected?

I keep getting rejected; my application name is "alarm"

The reason for rejection is that 'this category has more listings and unreviewed (not a word) listings than we normally assign a new editor.' I think the key word here would be 'normally' I think in this instance I would be a benefit to this category.

I would like to respectfully disagree to your denial of my application to be an editor of the: ' Business: Business Services: Security: Alarm Systems http://dmoz.org/Business/Business_Services/Security/Alarm_Systems/ ' category.

I have also noticed that some sites listed in this category are inappropriate and should be moved to a different category (or removed all together). One example of this is http://yoursecuritychoice.com/ 'Your Security Choice.com' this is nothing more than a email collecting website. When you go to the 'Client Membership Form' enter in your information and click on submit there is a script that accesses your email address and sends it to them. Even without the email collecting script, the company dose not provide any security services at all, or any content for the directory, it is an information gathering service.

You may also want to take a look at http://www.ademco.com/ 'The Ademco Group' and http://dmpnet.com/ 'DMP'. Yes they are in the security industry but they are manufactures and distributors they might be better being placed in the 'Business: Business Services: Security: Products and Equipment' category (see I can do this).

After seriously looking at what I've said here you should see I can be an editor in this category, and I feel as if you summarily dismissed the fact that I've been a professional in the security alarm industry for over 25 years, and that would make me a better editor than someone that has been an editor but has no experience in the alarm industry. <img src="/images/icons/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/icons/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/icons/mad.gif" alt="" />

Oh and as for the example sites I submitted;

http://www.brinkshomesecurity.com/

Brinks Home Security

Home security alarm systems installed nation wide.

http://www.4seasonssecurity.com

Four Seasons Security

Security Systems and fire alarm systems, design installation service and monitoring for residential and commercial.

http://www.trlsystems.com/

TRL Systems, Inc

Design, engineering, installation, testing and maintenance of fire alarm, access control, CCTV, nurse call, and intercom systems.

All would be an asset to the ODP. <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" alt="" />

427 sites is waaay more than we'd normally give to a new editor. Generally new editors are accepted into categories with 100 sites or less. Furthermore, that category has a stroke over 200 sites waiting for a review (unreviewed sites).

Perhaps you could apply for a smaller category, and then once you have proved your competence you can apply to edit that category.

To add to Neil's accurate comments, we aren't criticising your expertise in the field. We'd love to have you there, but we need you to learn the craft of editing first. That's the main reason that we start newbies off with small categories.

Why not apply for a regional category with say 50ish plus or minus listings - maybe your home town - to begin with? Once you've demonstrated your editing skills there, you can confidently apply for a larger role.

&gt;"427 sites is waaay more than we'd normally give to a new editor."

Yes that may be true but I'm no normal editor. Have you even reviewed the ideas that I have for this category? I've only looked at a few dozen sites in that category and I thought that my ideas were good ideas. I think you are passing up on something good. <img src="/images/icons/mad.gif" alt="" />

&gt;"Why not apply for a regional category with say 50ish plus or minus listings - maybe your home town"

I know this, but my expertise is in the security field. I can do this category; I know it in my heart. I have always been an over achiever and that has made me very successful in everything that I do. I would apply for this category if I didn't have the time to edit it. I'm not asking for tenure, I'm just asking for a chance. If I'm not good then you can remove me, and this category is a secure (excuse the joke) category, and not subject to abuse. With 200 un-reviewed sites let's get to work, trust me I can do this I know most of these companies first hand. <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" alt="" />

The advice above is good. You need to learn how to be an editor first, the category including the unreviewed is too large.

&gt;&gt;I feel as if you summarily dismissed the fact that I've been a professional in the security alarm industry for over 25 years&lt;&lt;

I'm sure it seems that way, but in fact I'm sure there are several of us drooling over the fact that you are interested in the category and really want you to apply to a different smaller category to get started.

The first category for an editor is more about learning the entire process of editing than it is about the category. Not only is there a ton of supplementary information about the job of being an editor beyond the basic guidelines, there is a community to join and learn how everyone works together. The reason for a small category at first is so new editors aren't either completely overwhelmed with both the information and the editing or manage to miss all the information and make a really bad mess with a lot of sites.

My suggestion is to apply to one of the smaller related categories. If you really are as interested as you seem, you will probably really enjoy editing and end up eventually editing all the related categories anyway. So just think of applying for a smaller category as groundwork for the bigger picture.

Some suggestions:
Business/Business_Services/Security/Products_and_Equipment/Armored_Vehicles/
Business/Business_Services/Security/Products_and_Equipment/Article_Security/
Business/Business_Services/Security/Products_and_Equipment/Personal_Protection/
Shopping/Home_and_Garden/Emergency_Supplies/Security/
Shopping/Home_and_Garden/Home_Improvement/Hardware/Safety_and_Security/
Home/Home_Improvement/Safety_and_Security/

If you start with a small category, you will then be able to demonstrate by doing your ability to edit and be in a better position to apply to the one you want.

Please apply again! <img src="/images/icons/cool.gif" alt="" />

drool, drool....

I'm sure that you think that your submitted titles and descriptions were truly excellent, but like nearly every editor, past or current, you would probably look back at those sites in 6 months time, and realise that they could have been done just a little better. This isn't meant as any sort of criticism, just that after gaining experience in editing you'll look back at the early stuff and see room for some improvement. We have all done it. That is one of the reasons for only dishing out small categories to begin with - to limit the quantity of any damage caused. Please don't take that personally as it is just a general observation of just one small part of the reasoning behind how categories are assigned. Whilst experience in the subject matter of the sites being reviewed is important, being able to edit subject to the guidelines, using the editing tools, and communication with other editors are also important things, and as a newcomer to those aspects of the "job" we all had to start at the bottom level. The advice from the people above is all good; those editors have a vast amount of experience, and many started their editing "career" in a very small corner of the directory. Apply for something a bit smaller, and see what happens.

The answers by seniors given in the replies to the message by alarm prove the point I make in Editors leave of absence
ODP becomes a chicken and egg or is it Catch22.

• Solutions could be:
• Set up a Member test and line of editor regulations like in Zeal.com
• Spend a little more time with people like alarm and give them a chance to prove their point.
• Be open to all feedback
• Dare to delegate
• Less forum chat more editing[/list:u]
  Of course this message is a mirror of my own frustration at times which leaves my body as soon as I have have written it down as is the case now <img src="/images/icons/laugh.gif" alt="" />.
  
  
  Dutch

&gt;&gt;My suggestion is to apply to one of the smaller related categories.&lt;&lt;

I think getting the message;

&gt;&gt;this category has more listings and unreviewed listings than we normally assign a new editor. &lt;&lt;

Gives hope that you wouldn't normally assign this group to a new editor but you might, that being the case I should get accepted (in my mind). I can see now that new editors don't get a large category to start with, and that's it.

I'll apply for one of the smaller categories and hope to move up. I never thought about the other related categories that are smaller, but I will still have some expertise.

Thanks for your words of encouragement. <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" alt="" />

OK, OK now I'm getting a big head. <img src="/images/icons/blush.gif" alt="" />

2. Spend a little more time with people like alarm and give them a chance to prove their point.

Click to expand...

Editors have been spending time here with him. The ultimate fact is, though, that we need new editors to start small, to get a handle on editing in general before they are granted a larger category like this one. It's not a personal affront.

3. Be open to all feedback

Click to expand...

Editors are but when it starts to rehash issues that (a) we have no control over, (b)are already on a to-do list, or (c) (for reasons we can't or won't get into) are not doable, there's no point served in going through it all again...and again....and again.

5. Less forum chat more editing

Click to expand...

That's totally irrelevent...and incorrect since it implies that any time not spent here would be spent editing. Most of us would spend the same amount of time editing regardless of whether or not we post here; it's not an either/or situation. Considering that many editors put in near full-time hours or more doing ODP-related tasks, suggesting that we're slacking off on our "duties" by posting here to help submitters is an insult.

&gt;&gt;I'm sure that you think that your submitted titles and descriptions were truly excellent, but like nearly every editor, past or current, you would probably look back at those sites in 6 months time, and realise that they could have been done just a little better. &lt;&lt;

Well to tell you the truth I didn't spend much time on the descriptions (about 30 sec each). The reason for this is I don't know the criteria for writing the descriptions. I assumed that I would receive the criteria for writing descriptions after becoming an editor (they don't look that hard), and after studding the category I found it to be all over the map for example;

From

http://www.greateralarm.com/ - with a description of 'Greater Alarm Company, Inc.'

To

http://freedomsec.com/ - with a description of 'Located in North San Diego county offers affordable home and business alarm system installation, service, and monitoring.'

So with that I picked the center of the road and went with it.

As for my submitted titles; well I hope I got them right because if I didn't I shouldn't edit any category.

Descriptions are 'all over the shop' because of the changes to the guidelines over the years. Currently this is the guideline we are using http://dmoz.org/guidelines/describing.html#descriptions The guidelines in entirety are at http://dmoz.org/guidelines/ .

There are other resources available as well - try http://inelegant.org/ddp/07002/ as well for description advice with some examples. (especially note the section on redundancy - it's something that's easy to forget at first).

You might be surprised at the Title as well on occasion <img src="/images/icons/laugh.gif" alt="" />

<img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" alt="" />

To repeat myself (and other metas): We don't expect perfect descriptions on applications. If we did, a lot of current editors (including myself <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" alt="" /> ) would never have been accepted.

We're looking for reasonable attempts at writing objective, informative descriptions, without bLatnaT speling, And, gramtiacal erors, and without Marketing Hype, More Marketing Hype, The VERY BEST Marketing Hype on the Net, And MORE!!!!

Looking at the editor guidelines before applying doesn't hurt, but spending a lot of time to make sure that every aspect of the application is strictly and perfectly guideline compliant is probably a waste of time. We expect editors to read and re-read the guidelines, of course. But we don't expect it from applicants.

In reply to:
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5. Less forum chat more editing


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That's totally irrelevent...and incorrect since it implies that any time not spent here would be spent editing

Click to expand...

Is it irrelevant? Is there a new meaning to About DMOZ ?

Considering that many editors put in near full-time hours or more doing ODP-related tasks, suggesting that we're slacking off on our "duties" by posting here to help submitters is an insult.

Click to expand...

Your words not mine. You do not have to defend yourself, but only question where you are really going with the current system. I would never insult an editor as I do believe they have best intentions.
And I do not use foul language in the spirit of ODP. I don't know you and I don't judge you. I just challenge the system, because I feel the system is not really receptive to necessary change. If you feel insulted it is something inside yourself that causes it.

When opening a forum like this, you know you get stick from people. When they're unhappy there is a reason and that's life too.

Keep it up.

Dutch

Thanks for the links, and if I get accepted as an editor I'll read them.

Well,
I can speak from my own experience here.

I applied for a category well over a year ago. My applications was rejected, and more importantly, I felt rejected. However, after some serious thought (and the prompting of a few friends), I figured I would take the advice given to me, and apply to a category a little further off the beaten path.

And so, here I am. I've been an editor since late December. I see now that my disouragement a year ago was mostly my pride getting in the way of the things that matter. The categories I edit are suitable to my interests yet not too demanding. In other words, I found a good match.

I wish you the best of luck throughout your application process.
Chile (aka gerrytoews)

So I took your advice and applied for Shopping: Home and Garden: Emergency Supplies: Security and this time I was rejected because 'Reviewer Comments: iprepare.com: not only security. ditto x10.'

Well that is true, but someone applying for a category can only provide examples based upon what is in that category. Look at the number 2 listing http://www.bigsecurity.com yes they sell security equipment but they also sell camcorders, Microphones, and Night Vision Devices!!! Look at the number 3 listing http://members.tripod.com they sell a do it yourself home Inventory package and that's it! I would say something about your number 1 listing http://www.als-safety.com because its description listed non security items (Provides alarms, safety lights, diversion safes, and baby safety items) but the site is down so I could not verify.

How do you ever expect to get more editors? The application says to give 2 or 3 examples, but it never gives you the standard of the category, so all you can go by are the existing sites listed. If the examples I gave match the existing sites in the category then I should have been given the chance to edit this category, all someone had to do is let me know what the exact criteria for this category is and I would have had no problems. Trust me, my application was very strong and should not have been rejected. I can see now why the directory doesn't have enough editors.

I think my application should be reconsidered.