if a suggestion is denied years ago, is it ever reconsidered?

Hello,
I have now been trying to get my Business Directory & Classified website listed for over 4 years now. I was originally denied inclusion (back when you all responded to inquires) due to the fact that It was a new site and it didn't have a ton of user generated content (posts). I can understand this to a point. But its a vicious circle. A DMOZ listing generates tons of user generated content, but I cannot get into DMOZ without the user generated content. It really is a nasty little circle. Not your all fault though, I am sure you are just following your guidlines.

The main question of this post is the following: If I was denied a listing many years ago, is it a lost cause to try and submit again? Once denied, is it flagged forever? My website has grown & has be redesigned 3 times since it was first suggested. It is actually more user friendly and visually appealing then 80% of those websites currently listed in the category. It wasn't that way when It was first suggested though.


P.S. to the editor of the business directory category, I would like to explain my double posting in the same category last week. When I first suggested it "been a few years since suggesting it", an hour later my server crashed hard (was down for over 24 hours, not a normal thing). Freaking out, I resubmitted it just in case you did review it "doubtful you did". I also felt I had too many caps in the description. Please, when you see the double posting, please don't consider it spam.

I hope you can understand the double url suggestion & the viscous circle I was talking about above when you read this. I also hope that you get some nooky the night before you review my website

Any editing decision is subject to review, at any time.

Some things won't change, though. Content is still king; Visual Appeal may look at the castle--from a long way away.

From the point of view of someone who, as a user, has generated (shall we say) more content than most people: I can say that it's absolutely NOT an ODP listing that gets user content generated. It's the other way around -- and it's a one-way street: it's user content that gets an ODP listing.

What gets US (users) involved in generating more content is a core of existing content generated by the website creator. Whether it's e-texts, or directory entries, or encyclopedia articles, or classified ads, what matters is the core: the "I don't care who else chimes in, I WILL build this!" attitude, exemplified by regular additions to the core content. We users respond to that. That's the way the ODP got started; CCEL; the Hymnary; Project Gutenberg (US, Serbia, Canada, etc.); Gesangbuch; Groklaw: and all the other sites I've contributed to. And at times my work has been what triggered others' contributions.

This is certainly a cycle--virtuous, not vicious: more users attracted, more content generated, site more attractive to more users. But the core has to be there to start. Without the core, the users should (and will!) go elsewhere -- not because there's an ODP listing, but because there's content. An ODP listing cannot keep users around where there's not already any content. The void, no matter how visually appealing it's made, doesn't attract charitable donations.

Thinking an ODP listing guarantees user content, is wrong--and not just any old sort of wrong, it's wrong "for values of wrong on the remote fringes of 'catastrophic failure'."

I think I understand what you are saying.

But closing it down, is out of the question. I have been solely working & improving on this for the last 10 years, long before things like craiglist was even heard of.

Maybe an ODP listing won't generate the user content I think it will, but it surely wouldn't hurt.

Currently I have around 3500 user generated business listings & classifieds, what is considered enough content if that many pages of content isn't enough. I meen there could be much more, but I automatically expire these listings (should I not expire, just so I have enough content?). Many new ones are posted daily, and many expire daily. It is constantly changing.

Over the course of 10 years, I have added new free services like:

(1) up to 8 photos per business listing or classified.
(2) user feedback/rating system
(3) interactive maps to allow filtering down to county level
(4) User stores with their own subdomain website and shopping cart

Many sites in this directory have advertising capitol for things like adwords & yahoo paid listings. I do not, I am an unemployed IT worker offering a completely free service hoping to get a break one day so he too can have advertising capitol.

Also, I am not sure if you answered the question fully, or I just didn't understand the answer. Does it make sense to suggest a website again that was denied years ago? Or is it flagged once first reviewed, and if it shows up again as a suggestion, is it just discarded?

Currently I have around 3500 user generated business listings & classifieds

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If your website pertains to a city or maybe state, that could be enough. If it has a national or world wide scope, it's trivial. 3500 classified ads in 10 years is less than one per day - trivial in any scope. We aren't trying to offer a service to website owners; we're offering one to surfers. To be of any use to surfers, a website needs to offer useful content and lots of it.

Bottom line is by all means suggest it one more time - but don't hold your breath that we'll think it's useful to surfers.

jimnoble said:

3500 classified ads in 10 years is less than one per day - trivial in any scope.

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Huh? I said I have been working on this (the idea) for 10 years. It originally started as a local county website, and has morphed. It has changed names a couple of times. The latest data and website started in 2006. And as far as the 3500, that's due to them expiring. Plus I keep a clean directory. Foreigner Ads & Spam are deleted promptly.

Since 2006, I have over 30,000+ members who have posted over 50,000 listings and over 4 million unique visitors. Again, like I stated before, they expire and are deleted automatically. current count is 3500, again, that goes up or down daily.

From the sounds of it, its not about keeping a clean directory, its all about listings (content). So, I should never let anything expire or work to keep it clean just so the content is there.

I am not sure whats with all the hostility. I have been very pleasant and civil with my postings. The 1st person who responded, told me I should just shut down my website (then 30 minutes later, edited that part out). Then the last one who responds, Doesn't even read what I wrote and somehow comes up with the idea that I have had only 3500 listings total in 10 years, and tells me not to hold my breath. I understand that you guys probably deal with some jerks in this forums, but it doesn't mean you have to treat everyone like they were jerks.

Also, there is a few in this directory that have around what I have for current count for user generated content, and yes, they are broad category & nationwide. My guess is either they are editors, or know an editor.

From the sounds of it, its not about keeping a clean directory, its all about listings (content). So, I should never let anything expire or work to keep it clean just so the content is there.

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No, expired listings are not going to make your site any more listable than it is without the expired listings and in fact would just muddy the waters enough that an editor might miss the current, relevant content. The amount of listings you have on your site may well meet our requirements for content -- we're not going to know that, though, until an editor actually reviews the site. You've done all you can do by suggesting it.

Doesn't even read what I wrote and somehow comes up with the idea that I have had only 3500 listings total in 10 years

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In all fairness, your post isn't clear that the 3500 listings you talk about are recent, current, active listings (it can be read to mean total number of listings you've ever had) so it's an understandable mistake for someone to have made.

motsa said:

No, expired listings are not going to make your site any more listable than it is without the expired listings and in fact would just muddy the waters enough that an editor might miss the current, relevant content. The amount of listings you have on your site may well meet our requirements for content -- we're not going to know that, though, until an editor actually reviews the site. You've done all you can do by suggesting it.

In all fairness, your post isn't clear that the 3500 listings you talk about are recent, current, active listings (it can be read to mean total number of listings you've ever had) so it's an understandable mistake for someone to have made.

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Thank you motsa, I appreciate your civility.

The main reason of this post was not really to talk about my website, but to find out what your guys process was for suggesting a website again that is known to have been denied years ago. I was curious to know if it was actually looked at again, or if once its first reviewed, its flagged so you all don't waste time reviewing it twice. I can understand the the flagging so you guys don't waste your time. But in the time frame of years going by, a website can be totally redesigned, have a huge jump in traffic & content, or even the domain name bought by new owners. Is there a general guidline for this?

We review sites based on what's actually on the site, not how it was the last time we looked at it. This is especially true for sites where we know that amount of unique content typically grows with the age of the site, e.g. blogs, forums, classifieds.