Issues on a few listings within a DMOZ category.

Since I have applied to be a DMOZ editor I thought I would check out the category I had applied for:

http://www.dmoz.org/Regional/Europe/Spain/Travel_and_Tourism/Lodging/Vacation_Rentals/

I've found a few sites - some I think should not exist there and some I have concerns on.

1) Two entries for 'Intraspain' point to the same website
2) Owners Direct - links to http://www.ownersdirect.co.uk/Spain/spain.htm This website appears to deal with other countries and is listed in the 'Directory category' of vacation rentals.
3) http://www.thevillacompany.com/mainpage.htm - Directs to the homepage, also has USA, and other destinations on the website. Shouldnt this be submitted to the Directory section?

That's all I could find. If a website has a Spanish section but it deals with various destinations can it submit to the Spanish category?

Darren

Websites with content in English and another language (or several) can be listed in both the English language part of the directory (including Regional) and the appropriate non-English language category/categories under World.

Regional/Europe/Spain is for English language sites related to Spain.

World/Espanol is for sites in Spanish about any subject - you then have to find the correct subcategory.

Those would be some good things to research and fix if you become editor. If you haven't already applied, or your application is rejected and you need to reapply, you should include those observations in your application. The duplicate entries for Intraspain are clearly a problem. Just be aware that the other two sites may or may not be appropriate depending on the specific guidelines for that category. I'm not familiar enough with the specific category guidelines for that category to say whether they are or are not.

Good luck with your application.

Hi xixtas, unfortunately I was unsuccessful, it only took them 30 minutes to email me back with the rejection and a long long list of possible reasons, not very helpful unfortunately.

I would of thought with 10 years experience of the travel industry that my experience alone might have swung it. Nevermind, I shall retry at a later date.

John - you were referring to language. What I was trying to say, probably not very well is that one of the websites in the listing is in the Spanish lodging category, but the the website content when you click on the home page, does not provide just Spanish lodging, but accommodation worldwide. My question really was can they list in Spain because they have properties in Spain, especially when they have a listing in the Worldwide Lodging directory.

Hope this makes sense.

Darren

I don't know much about the editor application process. Try asking for help at the Becoming an Editor forum. I do know that the category in question already has two listed editors. I think you'd be more likely to be accepted if you applied in a category without a listed editor.

Re: Issues on a few listings within a DMOZ categor

>I would of thought with 10 years experience of the travel industry that my experience alone might have swung it.

Lots of people think this, and it's never true! We'd be just as happy to accept an editor who's "been surfing the net for sites about Lower Slobbovian tourist attractions, because I'm thinking of visiting relatives there next year." Really. What we want is someone who will enjoy looking at other people's websites.

But the most important part of an application is the sample of your work. That allows us to judge your grasp of the taxonomy and the English language, as well as your ability to recognize and describe what's distinct and significant about the websites.

Re: Issues on a few listings within a DMOZ categor

Well surely 10 years of working for a reputable online tourism company searching the internet for holiday accommodation, thus searching on holiday accommodation websites is sufficient.

In total they were 10+ possible reasons for me to be rejected how are people to know what they have done wrong in the application?

I received a rejection around 10-20 mins after completing the form. I'm used to rejection but come on, you have to be more helpful to unsuccessful editors

I will try again, but I do think someone needs to look at the feedback you send to rejected applicants. I can understand you only wanting the best, you wouldnt want editors who are applying to assist their own websites future on ODP.

Darren

Re: Issues on a few listings within a DMOZ categor

Look carefully at the list, then at the copy of your application that you saved to a text editor before sending.

Can you honestly say that there is nothing there that applies to your application? At least one of them will be relevant.

Sometimes, reviewing editors will also append some application specific comments to the end of the form email too.

Re: Issues on a few listings within a DMOZ categor

Based on the fact that you're applying for a travel-related category, things you ought to consider in particular include:

1) Fundamentals - have you read and appreciated what the guidelines say about writing titles and descriptions, particularly no hype, no unnecessary words in the title, no repetition of words in title and description, good spelling?

2) Fundamentals again - have you honestly declared all your affiliations with sites - ones you own, ones your brother owns, ones you've provided services for etc?

3) Related particularly to the travel area - sites that offer primarily affiliate content, i.e. from another source e.g. a hotel booking site, are not listable under dmoz guidelines. Check the sites that you have suggested.

Re: Issues on a few listings within a DMOZ categor

Working in the industry doesn't DISQUALIFY you either. You're focusing on one single tidbit of information--all we're looking for there is some reason why you might be interested in reviewing websites on that topic. That's all. "I work in the industry..." That's OK. "I want to work in the industry when I get out of high school." That works for us. "I am a consumer of the industry's products..." That's OK too. "I'm thinking about buying next year, so I want to do some online research." That's great. "There's a lot of that kind of industry around my home town, and when I get homesick I like to look at the pictures." That's good enough for us.

That one tidbit is the easiest part of the application. And since you work in the industry, you don't even have to mention it, just show your affiliations and we'll figure it out.

So: leave that -- trust me, it won't be a problem -- and focus on the sample URLs and descriptions. THEM'S what get people rejected. (That and concealing affiliations...which you don't seem to have been doing, right?)

Re: Issues on a few listings within a DMOZ categor

Ok at the moment I'm looking for hamster cages for my nephew so does that give me a good chance of been an editor of the hamster category. I think this logic is outragious.

So if I have run forums on my industry, worked in the industry surfed and researched websites within this category for my work this isnt the kind of experience that you want??

You would rather someone come along who is looking for an apartment in Florida to submit to be an editor.

I'm sorry but that is just crazy. When I do reapply I will of course put complete bulls*it about looking to buy an holiday home and that I love looking at the pretty holiday houses on the internet.. hopefully that will get me somewhere

Thanks for your advice, it's appreciated!

Re: Issues on a few listings within a DMOZ categor

OK, I'm sitting here with resource-zone open in one window, and Arts/Music/Styles/Classical in a couple of other windows. Someone must think I'm a good editor: after I built "Classical Composers" up from 40 to 400 sites, they asked me to apply to edit all of Arts/Music. They never asked me if I could compose a classical concerto...and a good thing, too, because I couldn't have. I just listen to the stuff.

So here I am reviewing websites about world-famous conductors and orchestras (as well as some I never heard of, which doesn't exactly make them obscure) and I still couldn't play the kazoo in a kindergarten concert.

Is that a problem? You could generate a "Lake Woebegone Community Orchestra" spoof site, and I might not catch it -- but would a member of the Boston Philharmonic be able to do any better?

I can recognize an orchestra; I can figure out where their concert hall is; I can tell whether they have online ticket sales or sound samples; I can write all that down in plain, fairly grammatical English. That's good enough.

We really don't care what you did yesterday, or ten years ago. We just want to know what you can do for us tomorrow. And ... my thousands of edits in Arts/Music says that's not such an unrealistic way of looking at it.

Re: Issues on a few listings within a DMOZ categor

I'm reposting my comments to you from another thread:

Experience in the industry/topic is a wonderful asset, but when it comes to starting at the ODP everyone starts at the bottom in categories that aren't deemed "for more experienced edtiors." If Stephen Hawking were to apply to edit Science/Physics, he'd be denied and asked to apply to a lower level category.

Think of it as preemptive damage control. The Metas don't want to accept someone to a category where they could cause a lot of damage, without having a good idea of the editor's skills and motivations first. And the only way to find this out is for them to become an editor in a different area first. I hope you consider applying to join in a different category. Areas that are spammy really benefit when a knowledgable and skilled editor takes it over. Maybe you will end up following poker's footsteps. (Recreation/Gambling)

******************

A significant portion of the ODP can be edited by anyone who has the ability to research links and read a website. I've found that real world experience really helps in two areas:

- Organizing technical topics or detailed industries in a logical fashion for the industry, covering all subtopics.

- Handling spammy types of topics, where an insider will know all the affiliate programs and other tricks.

The problem is that before an editor can actually be helpful doing either of the above, they have to have mastered basic editing skills. That's all.

BTW - one of the things I enjoy about editing is delving into areas where I don't have any background. I either learn really interesting things and have lots of fun while helping clean up an area , or I discover that I really dislike the topic and back carefully away, resolving to let others handle that area . Either result is educational at a minimum. I'm sure other editors feel similarly.

Re: Issues on a few listings within a DMOZ categor

Look don't get me wrong I am not stating 'Ive been in this business for 10 yrs so therefore I should automatically become an editor'

I just didnt agree with your comment about "someone looking for a holiday apartment" would be a better editor than someone with experience within the travel industry.

I have read forums and I KNOW that people are chosen for there background and knowledge. I agree grammar, spelling are important but surely you would want someone who could look at a site and look at all aspects including content and if the website truely offered a service or product within the category it had been submitted to.

Anyway I don't think we are going to agree on this topic of conversation but thank you for the discussion

Darren

Re: Issues on a few listings within a DMOZ categor

>> I just didn't agree with your comment about "someone looking for a holiday apartment" would be a better editor than someone with experience within the travel industry. <<

No-one said that that person would be a better editor, however any prospective editor has to start at the bottom, learn how the editing tools work, show they understand the listing and editing guidelines, have a grasp of the directory ontology, and "do the right thing" when editing. For some people, a couple of weeks editing one category, and doing a good job at it, results in the editor being granted more priveledges. Note the wording: granted more priveledges. Much of what is done at the ODP is often arrived at by concensus and there is a lot of peer review in many processes too. So, someone with lots of experience might do a better job, and might get into other higher categories sooner, but then again they might not. This works in the same way that of a couple of people joining some company at the bottom level, that 20 years later one might still be sweeping the floor while the other is the CEO; but straight out of high school as an unknown person, however gifted they actually are, neither would get a shot at the CEOs job straight away. To the ODP, every new editor is an "unknown" person. Each progresses at the speed that they are happy with, based on what they have done while they have been at the ODP.

Re: Issues on a few listings within a DMOZ categor

>I just didn't agree with your comment about "someone looking for a holiday apartment" would be a better editor than someone with experience within the travel industry.

You misunderstand altogether. You persist in thinking that we should look at nothing in an application but personal claims about a high level of knowledge. Our response is twofold:

(1) We don't, and we won't, demand and a "high" level of knowledge -- just adequate knowledge to sort sites, and some interest.
(2) We do, and we will, look at other things besides subject knowledge: ability to treat sites fairly, ability to describe sites in normal formal English according to our guidelines.

Note that there are at least four hurdles an application has to jump: fairness, coherency, knowledge, public spirit. You're trying to run around three of them, then clear the last one by two feet....and wondering why no one cheers.

Note that the persistent insistance on seeing this as a "competition" with "better" and "worse" is also very alien to the ODP approach. We don't do "better" and "worse": we do "good enough to try out." If we had three qualified candidates, we'd hire them all!