It seems to me that nobody has his site listed...

Winterborn · May 18, 2006

While I was reading the messageboard, I saw not a single post with "Hoooray! My site was listed!" Only complaints. The same is about topics how to become an editor - everybody is posting only about rejection.
I have a thought that submitted people or those who finally get their sites listed are so glad, that they forget about the messageboard..
Can anyone tell me, what the percentage of submitted sites is?

windharp · May 18, 2006

I have a thought that submitted people or those who finally get their sites listed are so glad, that they forget about the messageboard..

IMHO there are two main factors here:

1) As you already assume, people who are happy are much more unlikely to post here. Well, that's pretty much understandable. If you receive a pleasant meal in a restaurant, do you call for the manager to tell him how satisfied you are?

2) Many people who have a really good site (loads of unique content) don't really care about an ODP listing. Either there is one, or there isn't - nice to have, but not neccessary for your personal satisfaction. On the other hand, a lot of the people who try to "make money fast" by building a small site and trying to trick people into clicking some affiliate links come here...

Can anyone tell me, what the percentage of submitted sites is?

Uh.... Percentage of what exactly? But in the end the answer doesn't really matter anyway. The only statistics we have available are those in our ODP Reports. They don't cover topics like this though, because we consider them highly irrelevant from the directories point of view. They do show that a lot of new entries are listed each month, though.

bobrat · May 18, 2006

I would think that a very large number of people do not even know their sites are even listed in ODP. There are some categories I edit where over 95% of the sites were added directly, they were never submitted.
Of those who submit sites, and are not that worried about being listed, or who are patient, they just bide their time, and eventually they notice they get listed. No complaints, and no praises. Before I was an editor, I submitted several sites and eventually noticed they were listed. I did not even know this forum existed, so I would never have come here to thank anyone.
There are a few posts here where people have come back to say thank you. It's nice.
Since the reality is that those who get reviewed and listed in a timely fashion are highly unlikely to post here, then this forum presents a very biased view of DMOZ. It would seem that most people who submit sites do not get listed and are unhappy, and that is not statistically correct.

robatash · May 31, 2006

windharp

Let me see if I understand you "Punish the whole for the actions of a few" or are you saying that everyone that posts here interested in the ODP listing is spaming (tricking) your directory. Also I know if I receive a good meal I always compliment. I know personally an ODP listing for me is not that important but a nice to have. Unique content? I have seen a lot of listings in the ODP that are nothing but pop-up all over the place. Not knocking you people for the most part I feel its a big job well done but a little compassion would be nice.

Thanks

motsa · May 31, 2006

Let me see if I understand you "Punish the whole for the actions of a few" or are you saying that everyone that posts here interested in the ODP listing is spaming (tricking) your directory.

windharp didn't write either of those things. I'd suggest you reread his post.

I have seen a lot of listings in the ODP that are nothing but pop-up all over the place.

Just to be clear, the presence of pop ups doesn't make a site unlistable. If you're seeing a site that has no listable content and a lot of pop ups, chances are the content of the site has changed considerably since it was first added and no one has noticed.

hutcheson · May 31, 2006

robotash, in every forum I visit I have seen posts to the effect of "hurray, my site was listed!" They are not daily occurrences -- only about one in a HUNDRED THOUSAND listings triggers a forum post like that.

And a good thing too, a VERY good thing. How would you like it if your favorite search engine forum contained a thousand "hurray" messages every DAY? Talk about "effective distributed denial of service spam"!

Think about it.

Then think some more.

Windharp mentions a very important point. It is not obvious to webmasters -- although with a bare modicum of thought, it SHOULD be. But it seared into editor consciousness by experience.

There is a strong, and ALMOST perfect, correlation between "webmaster desire to get into the ODP" and "worthlessness of website." And anybody who takes the trouble to actually LOOK at the sites MOST INSISTENTLY asked about, will discover this for himself. (Our old site status forum is locked but still readable. Check it out, and share our experience of reality for yourself!)

ALMOST perfect, I say: in any forum containing questions about site status, it's like lawyers, "the spamming webmasters are ruining the reputation of the other 1 percent."

That's not editor prejudice, that's editor experience. Prejudice would be like assuming we knew WHICH 99% of the importunate webmasters were spammers. And we know that we can't know that. Most of us that are active in forums have (at some time or another) helped spamming submitters of legitimate sites to clean up their reputation so the sites could be considered on their merits. The reason we don't do it more often -- is, there isn't an OPPORTUNITY more often. That's reality. People who can offer unique goods and services are too busy providing unique goods and services to spam the ODP. It's the people who have nothing to offer who demand most.

But ... isn't that true, even offline, in your own universe?

robatash · May 31, 2006

Thank you for the feedback first let me apologize for a poor choice of words. As I was reading windharps message "people who try to make money fast by building a small site and trying to trick people into clicking some affiliate links come here...meaning the ODP. I have come here I have other sites listed in your directory and I know others have come here with honorable websites weather they are a minority or majority seems like a lot of pre judging goes on, another quote "People with really good sites don’t really care about an ODP listing (not true). This to me and many webmasters I have talked with is the air of arrogance being portrayed by many of the editors weather regular editors meta etc. not all but some. I know many editors sustain a lot of abuse and I will bet most all take great pride in developing the great size and scope of the ODP.
You know at one time a listing with the ODP was very important to gain strong listings in google, yahoo, and many other search engines, but now the strength of the ODP listings have been watered down just by the attitudes and by the search engines becoming more advanced throughout the years and do you not think most people realize this today. I know submissions to categories are backed up with the many directories lacking volunteers assigned to them. The editors lashing out at webmasters good and bad I feel is causing many to lower there favorable feelings toward the open directory. What ever happened to the saying "cant we all just get along". If the guy is spamming your directory just tell him so, (reason) the air of secrecy is disheartening. Cant we try and help point direction to the right path without all the arrogance, secrecy, its covered in the FAQ's etc, a reasonable explanation from the ODP. I do understand the ODP is a volunteer initiative many with real jobs, kids, responsibilities and when there is no pay much to often good help is hard to find with submissions backed up for months to years. I have been through many listings and the ODP has so much good information, and saying this it is still very important to the internet community. I for one do not want to see the importance of the largest human edited directory decreasing as fast as the backlog of sites increases. And who am I just one of many good webmasters that does not want to see anything happen to what I feel is the greatest directory and please a change in the lack of patience editors and users are showing each other.
Thanks Bill

motsa · May 31, 2006

You're misquoting (or misreading) his posts. He wasn't making blanket statements, he wasn't prejudging; he was just explaining what he's seen from his own experience.

He wrote "a lot of the people who try to "make money fast" by building a small site and trying to trick people into clicking some affiliate links come here..." -- not "all", but "a lot".

He wrote "Many people who have a really good site (loads of unique content) don't really care about an ODP listing. " -- not "all", but "many".

If the guy is spamming your directory just tell him so, (reason) the air of secrecy is disheartening.

We experimented here with giving people site suggestion status checks. It didn't work out very well, all things considered, so we stopped. Most of the people who are really spamming us are not people we want to enter into any kind of a dialogue with. And, unfortunately, for the rest, we just no longer open ourselves to it.

robatash · May 31, 2006

motsa

I never said windharp said "Punish the whole for the actions of a few" I quoted that.

This is my opinion. The way I feel and now your telling me
quote" We experimented here with giving people site suggestion status checks. It didn't work out very well, all things considered, so we stopped. Most of the people who are really spamming us are not people we want to enter into any kind of a dialogue with. And, unfortunately, for the rest, we just no longer open ourselves to it."

I feel I am in the catagory of the rest (unfortunately for the rest) am I not being penalized for the actions of others. Thats positive.

motsa · May 31, 2006

I never said windharp said "Punish the whole for the actions of a few" I quoted that.

I never said that you said that.

In fact, I never referred to that part of your earlier post at all. I only referred to the actual portions of windharp's post that you really quoted (note: putting someone else's words between double quotes = quoting).

I feel I am in the catagory of the rest (unfortunately for the rest) am I not being penalized for the actions of others. Thats positive.

If you're talking about punishment as the fact that you are no longer able to get a site suggestion status check, yes, I suppose that would be accurate. Except that it wasn't just a "few" who spoiled it for the rest.

robatash · May 31, 2006

could care less about a site suggestion check my sites are already in the directory I am talking about the arrogant attitudes of some of the editors. They give the good editors a bad name. I have seen your posts all over and must say hope I never need to ask anything of you.

Thanks Bill

Expertu · May 31, 2006

robatash said:
I have seen your posts all over and must say hope I never need to ask anything of you.

We are all unique and certainly have different personalities. What one sais might seem ruse or such, but maybe, just maybe, that's his way of expressing himself.

Try to be flexible and understand the main thing that the person wants to send out, and not the way in which it's sent.

PS: I don't know you or the above person. I'm just stating some advices. And sorry if what i said is not appropiate in your case.

hutcheson · May 31, 2006

>If the guy is spamming your directory just tell him so....

Right. How many unsolicited commercial e-mails have you gotten in the last month? How many of them did you answer explaining to the sender that you felt they were spamming you?

How many telemarketing calls did you get last month? How many did you return to the company president, suggesting that the calls were not welcome?

How many advertisements did you get in the mail last month? How many of those advertisers did you send polite "thanks, but no thanks" cards to?

Might I humbly suggest that your notion of how to behave on the internet in this millenium is just a trifle unrealistic?

Expertu · May 31, 2006

hutcheson said:
>If the guy is spamming your directory just tell him so...

I know at least one person, with which i talk frequently, which edits DMOZ (a higher category) and gets like 500 to 600 e-mails per day, with requests from 3rd parties, mostly (95%) website owners, like swearing him, calling him incompetent, demanding their website reviewed even.

I mean, even if these DMOZ editors are like GODS/Superhumans to some SEOers/Webmasters, they have a home, kids, a job, free time, waxing time, spring break, summer break etc.

hutcheson · May 31, 2006

>I for one do not want to see the importance of the largest human edited directory decreasing as fast as the backlog of sites increases.

The backlog is irrelevant. The importance of any resource is the frontlog.

Think about it. Is the Royal Elbonian Library less important today just because some vanity press in Lower Slobbovia just published a volume of Slobbovian poetry?

The problem experienced editors are running into -- and discussing -- is that the ODP is TOO comprehensive. Not for users, perhaps you can't be too comprehensive for them. But for editors. The odds are very good that, when we find a good site, it's already listed.

Ignoring the REAL backlog (which is all sites not yet reviewed), look at the "artificial" backlog created by site suggestions. There are five million listings already. There are maybe a third that many site suggestions, and the majority of THEM aren't going to result in a listing. Just looking those numbers, chances are 80% or so that any site so far alleged to be listable, is listed.

And although that's a biassed sample [don't extrapolate to non-English sites], some of the biggest biasses cancel out. Our experience with other sampling techniques gives a similar answer -- the ODP gives very good coverage.

From the point of view of the user, that is. And that's all that matters.

hutcheson · May 31, 2006

>even if these DMOZ editors are like GODS/Superhumans to some SEOers/Webmasters

Think of this, if you like, as the Forum of Lystra, with Paul and Barnabas rushing through the crowd, shouting, "Why are you doing this? We are mortals just like you!" And if we hardly dissuade the crowds ... it is not through lack of effort.

Expertu · May 31, 2006

I can't understand a thing from your post

pvgool · Jun 1, 2006

The Bible. Acts 14:15

15 "Men, why are you doing this? We too are only men, human like you. We are bringing you good news, telling you to turn from these worthless things to the living God, who made heaven and earth and sea and everything in them.

18 Even with these words, they had difficulty keeping the crowd from sacrificing to them.

Expertu · Jun 1, 2006

All makes sense now

motsa · Jun 1, 2006

I have seen your posts all over and must say hope I never need to ask anything of you.

Now, now. I've been nothing but polite to you in this thread. Was that really necessary?

It seems to me that nobody has his site listed...

Winterborn

Member

windharp

Meta/kMeta

bobrat

Member

robatash

Member

motsa

hutcheson

robatash

Member

motsa

robatash

Member

motsa

robatash

Member

Expertu

Member

hutcheson

Expertu

Member

hutcheson

hutcheson

Expertu

Member

pvgool

kEditall/kCatmv

Expertu

Member

motsa