Multiple Listing Inquiry - chef2chef

Hello Editors,

I sure would appreciate a status report and an explanation as to why these things keep happening to us.

Fred Roosli
http://Chef2Chef.Net

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1. These listings appeared in the Dmoz directory as a result of the March 2002 submission put were removed on or around April of 2002. I resubmitted them September 13, 2002.

http://dmoz.org/Home/Cooking/World_Cuisines/European/Italian/
Chef2Chef: Italian Recipes
Collection of Italian recipes at the Chef2Chef Culinary Portal.
http://chef2chef.com/italian/

http://dmoz.org/Home/Cooking/World_Cuisines/Latin_American/Mexican/
Chef2Chef: Mexican Recipes
Large number of Mexican or Mexico-influenced recipes, with search function.
http://cheftochef.net/mexican/

http://dmoz.org/Home/Cooking/World_Cuisines/Asian/Chinese/
Chef2Chef: Chinese Recipes
Large number of Chinese recipes, with search function.
http://chef2chef.net/chinese/

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2. These listings appeard prior to our March 2002 submission but were removed in April of 2002.

http://dmoz.org/Home/Cooking/Baking_and_Confections/Cookies/
Cookies
A collection of over 300 cookie recipes which can be searched or browsed.
http://cheftochef.net/cgi-bin/menu.pl?s=cookie

http://dmoz.org/Home/Cooking/Beef/
Main Course: Florentine-Style Steak
Chef2Chef Recipe Collection
http://chef-of-the-month.com/recipes-2/lidia-bastianich/florentine-style-steak.htm

http://dmoz.org/Home/Cooking/Desserts/
Grilled Pineapple with Rum, Lime-Ginger Syrup, and Ice Cream
Chef2Chef Recipe Collection
http://chef-of-the-month.com/recipes-2/adams/pineapple_rum_giner_ice_cream.htm

http://dmoz.org/Home/Cooking/Fruits_and_Vegetables/
Side Dish: Roasted Root Vegetables
Chef2Chef Recipe Collection
http://chef-of-the-month.com/recipes-2/lidia-bastianich/roasted-root-vegetables.htm

http://dmoz.org/Home/Cooking/Fruits_and_Vegetables/Onions/
Caramelized Vidalia Onions
Includes brown sugar, garlic, shallots, sherry vinegar, beef or chicken
stock, shiitake mushrooms, and seasonings. From chef Jeffrey Buben.
http://chef2chef.com/recipes/recipe/caramelized-vidalia-onions.shtml

http://dmoz.org/Home/Cooking/Fruits_and_Vegetables/Potatoes/Salads/
Hot German Potato Salad
Chef Paul Prudhomme's recipe for a basic version of a traditional dish.
Contains hard-boiled eggs and bacon.
http://chef2chef.com/recipes/recipe/hot-german-potato-salad.shtml

http://dmoz.org/Home/Cooking/Gourmet/
Chef Jody Denton
Jody Denton is the creative inspiration behind the restaurants and gourmet
products of Restaurant LuLu Inc. Sample some of his famous recipes.
http://chef2chef.net/recipes/jdenton/

http://dmoz.org/Home/Cooking/Pasta/
First Course: Strozzapreti or "Priest Chokers"
Chef2Chef Recipe Collection
http://chef-of-the-month.com/recipes-2/lidia-bastianich/strozzapreti_priest_chokers.htm

http://dmoz.org/Home/Cooking/Pizza/
Banana and Ricotta Pizza with Ham
Made with milk pizza dough, ricotta cheese, bananas, and thinly sliced ham.
http://chef2chef.com/recipes-italian/010578.shtml

http://dmoz.org/Home/Cooking/Recipe_Collections/
Chef Anne Gingrass
Featuring 70 recipes from the Hawthorne Lane Restaurant in San Francisco.
http://chef2chef.com/recipes/agingrass/

http://dmoz.org/Home/Cooking/Recipe_Collections/
Chef Jody Denton
A selection of recipes.
http://chef2chef.net/recipes/jdenton/jdenton.htm

http://dmoz.org/Home/Cooking/Soups_and_Stews/Fruit_and_Vegetable/Tomato/
Anne's Summer Tomato Soup with Roasted Garlic Cream. A full recipe making four servings.
http://chef2chef.com/recipes/agingrass/data/appetizer-hot-tomato-garlic-cream-soup.shtml

http://dmoz.org/Home/Cooking/Techniques/
Chef2Chef Tips
Cooking, food preparation, and food storing tips.
http://chef2chef.net/tools/tips/launch.htm

http://dmoz.org/Recreation/Food/Dining_Guides/North_America/United_States/
Chef2Chef
Top 100 restaurants nominated by executive chefs, with viewers allowed to vote and add nominees.
http://chef2chef.net/rank/rest.shtml


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3. These listings were submitted in March of 2002 and did not get listed at all. I resubmitted them on September 13, 2002.

http://dmoz.org/Home/Cooking/Baking_and_Confections/
Chef2Chef : Chocolate - offers thousands of recipes from chefs and
restaurants using chocolate.
http://recipe-chocolate.com/

http://dmoz.org/Home/Cooking/Fish_and_Seafood/
Chef2Chef: Fish & Seafood - offers a large index of recipes.
http://recipe-fish-seafood.com/

http://dmoz.org/Home/Cooking/Appetizers/
Chef2Chef: Appetizer Recipes - offers a searchable database of recipes from
chefs and restaurants. http://www.recipe-appetizer.com/

http://dmoz.org/Home/Cooking/Poultry/Chicken/
Chef2Chef: Chicken Recipes - features a wide variety of recipes with
chicken. http://recipe-chicken.com/

http://dmoz.org/Home/Cooking/Beef/
Chef2Chef: Beef Recipes - features a wide variety of recipes with beef.
http://recipe-beef.com/

http://dmoz.org/Home/Cooking/Baking_and_Confections/Cookies/
Chef2Chef: Cookie Recipes - features a wide variety of recipes for cookies.
http://recipe-cookie.com/

http://dmoz.org/Home/Cooking/Soups_and_Stews/
Chef2Chef: Soups and Stews - offers a wide variety of soup and stew
recipes.
http://chef-of-the-month.com/soups/

http://dmoz.org/Home/Cooking/Salads/
Chef2Chef: Salad - large selection of recipes for rice, potatoes, chicken,
jello, fruit, macaroni, shrimp, egg, taco, and more.
http://recipe-salad.com/


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Your site is currently listed in Business/Hospitality/Food_Service btw.

Around the 10th of Feb your site was removed from the directory for licence violation related reasons, but we accept that you did notify us (by mailing quite a few editors regarding the matter - without telling them you had asked another editor to look into the issue) in March that proper attribution was now in place.

I feel that it had been agreeded not to' deeplink' your site (or any of your 'mirror sites') as they do not offer sufficient content to warrant listing.

Hello Richard,

The not to ‘deeplink’ is a decision that was never communicated to me until today. We sure could have saved us all a lot of work and duplication in a very brief message. Here’s one site owner that will not fight you but will simply fade away. Better things to do in life <img src="/images/icons/grin.gif" alt="" />

As to the content issue, our pages are not ‘mirrored’ but merely distributed over a 10 domains by topic. Each of the 10 domains contains approximately 30,000 documents. One million chefs around the world that visit us each month would fiercely disagree with the ‘insufficient content’ assessment.

Right or wrong, thank you for your candid response. It will save us time.

Best Regards,
Fred Roosli
Chef2Chef

Well, when I said it had been "agreeded", I meant more than "a number of ODP editors agreeded" rather than "you and the ODP".

I'm not too familiar with the site (apart from reading the decisions made by other editors), but that's the lay of the land.

Here is what DMOZ determined in February 2002:


" I feel that it had been agreeded not to' deeplink' your site (or any of your 'mirror sites') as they do not offer sufficient content to warrant listing. "


Here is what PC Magazine wrote in March of 2002:


Chef2Chef truly deserves to be called a culinary portal. In addition to a huge online marketplace that sells food, gifts, clothing, kitchen supplies, books, and magazines, it offers an over-the-top collection of food-related news articles and reviews, cooking tips, health and allergy information, business and employment listings, classified ads, forums, and a whopping 280,000 recipes. Most impressive is a Top 100 section that lets you vote for your favorite chefs, wines, beers, restaurants, and Web sites. If it's not here, it doesn't belong in your kitchen.


ZD Net Editor's Choice Award, full Article
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,4149,469763,00.asp


I would love to hear from the editor's of the /home/cooking/ section as to why, within 30 days, editors from two upstanding organizations see things so differently.


Fred Roosli
Chef2Chef, LLC

Who said the ODP _editors_ disagreed with ZD Net? We listed your site as a whole, we just didn't think that certain sections (ie individual recipes) warranted being listed on their own.

I'm sure we'd all agree with PC Mag, it's a very good site.

However PC Mag did not say "this site is so wonderful that it deserves to have every single page inside it listed seperately in one of the great internet directories". It *is* a good site, we *have* listed it. But we won't be listing deep-links in every single food related category.

A section like this http://chef2chef.com/italian/ probably contains more content than most any other site on any other topic. If that is insufficient content for deep link, then what is sufficient?

Individual recipies, maybe not, but what looks like hundreds, maybe thousands of Italian recipies not sufficient for one link in something like:

http://dmoz.org/Home/Cooking/World_Cuisines/European/Italian/

that's a pretty high bar.

fredr - with content like that, you may want to head over to Zeal assuming they have available non-commercial categories.

Thank you for the kudos Appreciated. Take a minute to research this. There are a handful of recipe related sites that ARE deeplinked into nearly every food related category with 200 to nearly 3000 deep links.

Given that they are all excellent sites and upstanding net citizens, what will then determine who gets deeplinked and who does not?

Fred Roosli
Chef2Chef, LLC

Hi Orbiter

Interesting. I have never submitted a thing to zeal and yet I found 41 listings for our domains. That's plenty. No need for more.

Thanks for the tip.

Fred Roosli
Chef2Chef.Net

It's been a month and I was hoping to get an answer on this:

"Given that they are all excellent sites and upstanding net citizens, what will then determine who gets deeplinked and who does not?"

Fred Roosli
Chef2Chef.Net

Hello Moderators,

It's been about two and half years since I asked you about deeplinking the chef2chef.net site. We now have grown to about 420,000 of culinary and foodservice content.

What we do no longer have is the single entry in /Business/Hospitality/Food_Service/ that must have been removed from your index about a month ago.

May we ask what caused us to be so much in your disfavor or could it be a simple technical glitch?

Best Regards,
Fred Roosli
Chef2Chef.Net

It may be a simple technical glitch. The editor apparently thought that the site was in violation of the ODP license.

The reason is simple: Sites using Open Directory data must provide an attribution statement. See the number 2 of the Open Directory License. Sites using our data without such an attribution statement will not be listed.

I think it should be no problem for you to put the attribution statement on your directory pages. After doing so you may resubmit.

Thanks for the quick reply.

We do run our own brand foodservice directory and not ODP's! In fact, my wife is spending her 3rd year as a full time editor of our Chef2Chef Foodservice Directory.

Fred

You are using Open Directory data. It's not a problem that it's your "own brand", but it's a problem that you fail to provide an attribution statement. Note that this will not only result in delisting from the Open Directory; Netscape may also decide to take legal action against you.

Interesting. The directory structure is where the similarity to ODP ends. We do not update from ODP data. Listings are submitted to us via a our web interface at http://chef2chef.net/inc/main/foodservice-dir-add.htm

Are you sure you want attribution for a directory, listings and descriptions that you did not build and did not go through your editing process?

Fred

http://foodservice.chef2chef.net/directory/Recreation/Drink/Soft_Drinks/index.html
http://dmoz.org/Recreation/Food/Drink/Soft_Drinks/

Are you sure you want to take credit for our work?

They are not identical, but some descriptions are word for word, including the poor grammar

I'd guess this was a copy from around early 2001, based on the sub category and sites. Please note that you are free to add your own listings, even delete our listings from your copy, but as long as there is one of our descriptions the attribution needs to stay intact. (see how Google deal with this by using "The content of the Google directory is based on the Open Directory and is enhanced using Google's own technology." while retaining the attribution http://directory.google.com/Top/Regional/

:tree:

As you say they, are not identical However, we did start off with some ODP listings in March of 2002. Since that date, we have added/modfied/deleted about 15,000 listings.

If you are looking for attribution for listings entered prior to March of 2002, we would be glad to add it with that qualification.

Fred

There is a difference in the Google example, Google does not actively maintain a directory and we do and have done so for 4 years. I just looked at your standard attribution. It will thwart our efforts to build our own directory by creating confusion as to where a new site should be submitted.

Hence, I will make every effort to isolate and remove the listings prior to March of 2001 that we contracted from a database developer. As you pointed out correctly, those listings are now 4 years old. That may take some time and effort but it will be done.

I understand that Chef2Chef is not going to appear in the ODP directory and I accept your verdict. I will let you know when it's done.

Fred