No Status Check Will Lead To Further Editor Abuses

Now that the ODP no longer does Status Checks, website submitters no longer have a way of having their grievances addressed. This makes it possible for everything from simple mistakes to actions by unscrupulous editors to go unchecked. This is potentially a very serious issue that I hope someone could address rather than sweeping under the rug by editing/deleting my post. As far as I know, I'm not breaking any rules -- rules apparently designed to protect errant editors.

Without going into the details of my case, I submitted an abuse complaint about the editor of my category (a competitor) removing my site and editing the rest to enhance the searchability of his. That was literally several months ago! Yet, it's still "under investigation." Even today, the category was edited while my submission request was either rejected or ignored.

PLEASE, WHERE DO I GO NOW?!


Though you may not see it, the ODP really does have a credibility problem. From what I see, your categories don't contain the best and most informative sites, but edits that benefit the searchability of editors' own sites. And there's no way for us to inform you!

Can some please address my legitimate concerns?

Since status checks never had any connection to abuse reports, your post really does not make sense.

Status checks were never intended for "website submitters no longer have a way of having their grievances addressed" and it's exactly because they turned into general rants about other things besides status that they were discontinued.

Status checks were done by any editor who was able to answer them in this forum.

Abuse reports are (and always were) handled by senior editors and are nothing to do with this forum (and never were). No-one in this forum has ever been able to answer any questions about the status of an abuse report.

[BTW the site you asked about in your original post is listed in ODP]

bobrat said:

Since status checks never had any connection to abuse reports, your post really does not make sense.

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I wasn't expected to be insulted or to have my legitimate concerns belittled. Part of the 'new' ODP?

I'll just restate my question...

PLEASE, WHERE DO I GO NOW?!

Since Abuse Reports (at least mine) are being ignored and Status Checks are no longer done, where do I go to have my grievance addressed or at least looked into. The editor of the category my site 'should be' in is running amok and I have no way to have my concerns addressed. So, since this forum no longer does Status Checks, where do I go now for assistance?

As for my site it is NOT listed in the appropriate category, while the editor in question is spamming his site in 8 categories... at last count!


Again, I've not said anything in this post worth deleting. I'm just asking where I should go now for help from the ODP. It's a simple question...

Let me point out that you started this thread with an inaccurate statement

No Status Check Will Lead To Further Editor Abuses

I am merely telling you that you are incorrectly associating two separate items that have no relation to each other.

This is not a forum to discuss abuse complaints; if you have made one through the proper channels it will be taken care of. You will not get an answer as to the final disposition of the complaint, and as to whether it is accepted or not. Abuse is taken seriously and dealt with, however I should point out that many site owners confuse the failure to list their site as abuse, and it is not.

Without going into the details of my case, I submitted an abuse complaint...

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Actually, you submitted more than one. If one of them has been under investigation for months but your site hasn't been added to the category as a result, that should tell you that no abuse was found in relation to your site in particular.

To whomever just edited in my website into the category in question... Thank You!

From the replies here, I can readily tell it was neither bobrat nor motsa and certainly NOT the editor of the category. Whomever it was, thank you for taking my concerns seriously enough for rapid response. Much of my confidence in the ODP has been restored. The wait was certainly long enough.


On the central topic, from my own experience, I know that there is a correlation between NOT being able to have my status checked and gross editor abuse. A systemic flaw remains as long as moderators here refuse to see the obvious connection. Until it's fixed, and rogue editors are placed in check, there will continue to be abuses. Even now, I'm aware that my editor can and may eventually find an excuse to edit out my site once again.

When that happens, where can I go for help without having to wait months for a response that's never coming and/or groveling before moderators here who obviously could care less?

Anyway and again, thanks to whomever saw the clear abuse of my situation.

Either you are talking about a complete different site or category. I looked at the site you asked for in your previous thread http://resource-zone.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=34312 . That site was already listed several months ago and hasn't been changed since then.

The editor of the category my site 'should be' in

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This ofcourse is "could be"
The category your site is listed in has no named editor so I totaly don't understand your accusations. Over 200 editors can edit in that category and there is no way for you to know who is actualy doing any 'work' there.

I understand the confusion. I really didn't want to be specific, because it publicly identifies the editor and my site. But the category my site has always been in and 'should be' in -- that is until the then new editor edited it out months ago -- was the following...

http://dmoz.org/Arts/Performing_Arts/Acting/Actors_and_Actresses/Z/Ziyi,_Zhang/


Seeing that he had edited out my site while adding his to it and 8 others, including the one you linked, I then submited my site to the one you linked (accepted) and two others (which weren't accepted). Presumably, he did add my site to the category you linked, but it belongs in the one I just linked. For example, my site wasn't added to the following link, though it was submitted months ago!

http://dmoz.org/Arts/Movies/Titles/H/Hero_-_2002/


But of course, his site is there!


I really don't want to abuse the ODP with multiple submissions. I was content with just one in the first link of this post, until my site was first removed -- for no good reason but to increase the searchability of his. I just find it incredibly unfair that the editor, a competitor, is and can so easily get away with it unchecked!


Again, I really wasn't intent on getting into details here, but I was asked...

As far as I can see, your site http://csc.ziyi.org/filmography/fly...gers/index.html. was never submitted to Arts: Performing Arts: Acting: Actors and Actresses: Z: Ziyi, Zhang, it was never deleted from there, and therefore any accusations relating to the site's position (or lack of) in that category are purely imaginary, as are any comments regarding it's deletion.

It would be incorrect to list it in that category anyway, since your site has been listed in Arts: Movies: Titles: H: House of Flying Daggers (since March of this year) and that category is listed under Movies which is a sub cat of Arts: Performing Arts: Acting: Actors and Actresses: Z: Ziyi, Zhang

Arts: Performing Arts: Acting: Actors and Actresses: Z: Ziyi, Zhan is only for sites specific to the actress.

If you are talking about another site, then please clarify.

Argh now i see that you yourself have created all this confusion.

You had several sites http://www.ziyi.org/ and http://csc.ziyi.org/ and http://csc.zhangziyi.info- which were submitted ( at this time one redirects to another) . The submission of all of these sites is a direct violation of ODP guidelines. In additon it seems that these site when submitted were not complete and/or were under construction.

In addition http://ziyi.org was not working in June if this year and was unreviewed.

Also, at some point a request was made to change from one URL to another, and that was delayed until a redirect was in place.

Note that many different editors have touched your site over the last year, so accusations of editor corruption are grossly out of order.

zhangziyicsc, I submit to you that in several years of moderating this forum, and in several years of reviewing abuse reports, I never saw any correlation between editor abuse and status checks. I saw a LOT of correlation between spamming submitters and accusations of editor abuse in forums -- over 90% of such accusations are from notorious spammers. I saw a LOT of correlation between giving status reports and false accusations of editor abuse.

Which is obviously a very strong incentive to stop doing status checks, not that there weren't many other good reasons.

That's the fact. One confessed submittal policy violator's one site which probably insn't abuse, fits the pattern _I_ have seen fairly well.

And, look, this is so really really stupid that I hate to have to mention it: but REMOVING ONE SITE FROM THE ODP DOESN'T INCREASE THE SEARCHABILITY OF ANY OTHER SITE -- ANYWHERE!

So, given a suitable apology, I'd accept that you're just really ignorant about search engines, rather than being malicious.... Given a blustering repeat of the accusation, I'll moderate it as malice.

bobrat, since you're confused and further confusing yourself and this issue, and wish to find reason to fight with me rather than understand and seek resolution, I'm not directly addressing the details in your post. There is no confusion and I don't want you to create one.

Fact is, my site (csc.ziyi.org), was long listed in this category before being removed by this editor. The ziyi.org (www.ziyi.org) was a separate domain and website that was owned and run by my host. Only recently, did he turn over his site to me. I then redirected it to mine. It was the surest way of regaining some of the traffic lost since my own site was removed. Now that my site (csc.ziyi.org) has just been edited to replace (ziyi.org) in this category, the point is mute. I only have ONE website in this category.


hutcheson, I'm not hear to enter a debate with anyone. Doing so just makes it 'appear' it's my intension to argue a point I would most certainly lose -- not because I'm necessarily wrong but because you (as editors/moderators) are of course 'right'. So, no point going there.

But I will address this for clarafication...

"REMOVING ONE SITE FROM THE ODP DOESN'T INCREASE THE SEARCHABILITY OF ANY OTHER SITE -- ANYWHERE!"

When my site was first removed from this category months ago, this was one of the points addressed in my first Abuse Report, which 'should' be visible to you, presumably. Since this has been resolved (to my dissatisfaction), I'm no longer contending it. It's done. But the point was, that the editor redirected links to sites in the category with lower searchability, increasing the searchability of his own. At the same time, he removed others. ziyi.org is a good example -- the removal of csc.ziyi.org (high searchability) for ziyi.org (low searchability). The same is true for example of replacing www.zhang-ziyi.co.uk (which used to rank very high in 'Zhang Ziyi' searches) for http://uk.geocities.com/lisiulung_zhangziyi/index.htm (which doesn't rank at all!). The Abuse Report contains much more details and other examples.

Making such changes did wonders to decrease traffic to these domains, while relatively increasing his own site in 'Zhang Ziyi' searches. But again, that's done, and this is just to explain. Rather than dealing with all that, I'm was primarily concerned with getting my site (csc.ziyi.org) back into the category where it belongs. Thanks to someone here who took my concerns serious enough, it now is listed. Thank you to them.


Again, I don't want to argue. If you feel the ODP is 'perfect' as is, then fine. But it is my opinion that your editors are more free to run amok without Status Checks than with. This is from my own personal experience, and you would not be able to convince me otherwise. So there really is no point in arguing it.

And I've yet to see anyone answer the question: If my site is once again removed and Abuse Reports are not resolved after literally months of investigation, where do I go to have my concerns addressed now?

Now that my site (csc.ziyi.org) has just been edited to replace (ziyi.org) in this category, the point is mute.

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The only reason it has done so is because of the redirect from ziyi.org to csc.ziyi.org. Nothing was done as a result of this thread; that was already done before you posted your thread (hence bobrat's confusion). It wasn't because you complained or because there was abuse related to your site.

the removal of csc.ziyi.org (high searchability) for ziyi.org (low searchability).

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ziyi.org linked to csc.ziyi.org as a subsite. Both wouldn't be listed. The main URL offered more content at multiple subsites and so it was deemed the appropriate one to list. No abuse. Nothing contravening ODP guidelines. Nothing to do with searchability.

The same is true for example of replacing www.zhang-ziyi.co.uk (which used to rank very high in 'Zhang Ziyi' searches) for http://uk.geocities.com/lisiulung_zhangziyi/index.htm (which doesn't rank at all!).

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zhang-ziyi.co.uk redirects to http://uk.geocities.com/lisiulung_zhangziyi/index.htm -- we list the underlying URL, not the vanity domain so that was an absolutely correct URL change. Again, nothing to do with searchability.

If you're going to gripe about abuse, it helps to get your facts straight from an ODP point of view.

Again, motsa, I'm not here to argue. If you want readers to believe that my site wasn't immediately added as a result of my addressing the issue here, then fine. But I was watching very closely and saw the immediate change. Which I'm graciously thankful for.

I'm just pleased someone fixed the edit from ziyi.org to csc.ziyi.org. I know the editor of the category had no intension on doing it himself since he had edited the category AFTER my submission request without making the change. But of course, there's no abuse.

www.zhang-ziyi.co.uk is a framed site. It doesn't 'redirect' to http://uk.geocities.com/lisiulung_zhangziyi/index.htm. If there's no abuse in changing the links (which does benefit his site), then fine. As I said before, I'm no longer contending that since the Abuse Report was concluded. It was just to explain a point with an example.


As for the submission of my site to the House of Flying Daggers category, I had no choice since my site was removed from Zhang Ziyi. BUT it is worth noting that my site was only added to House of Flying Daggers after my Status Request was made. And I'm sure the editor in question didn't do it.


Yeah, I know, from your perspective, posts like mine may seem like paranoia. But 8 categories?! Yet my submissions go ignored?! It's been nearly a year and I'm still waiting for my Hero submission!

http://dmoz.org/Arts/Movies/Titles/H/Hero_-_2002/


Yes, there exists a systemic problem.

zhangziyicsc said:

Again, motsa, I'm not here to argue.

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This is not how it appears....

If you want readers to believe that my site wasn't immediately added as a result of my addressing the issue here, then fine. But I was watching very closely and saw the immediate change. Which I'm graciously thankful for.

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We have the benefit of logs with timestamps on them which we can refer to. Public pages can lag behind the editor pages and the edits by some time, even hours. This has been widely documented elsewhere.

I'm just pleased someone fixed the edit from ziyi.org to csc.ziyi.org. I know the editor of the category had no intension on doing it himself since he had edited the category AFTER my submission request without making the change.

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How, exactly, do you KNOW this? There are several hundred editors who could make edits in the category - there is no way of you knowing which one made an edit or what that edit was. Your "knowledge" can only be conjecture...

Even if it was the editor that you seem so concerned about, nothing in the ODP guidelines forces an editor to do one task ahead of another. That is never abuse, in and of itself.

www.zhang-ziyi.co.uk is a framed site. It doesn't 'redirect' to http://uk.geocities.com/lisiulung_zhangziyi/index.htm. If there's no abuse in changing the links (which does benefit his site), then fine. As I said before, I'm no longer contending that since the Abuse Report was concluded. It was just to explain a point with an example.

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And you have been given an answer - framed sites are not listed - we will list the URL of the actual content. That has nothing to do with inidividual editor preference, bias or corruption.

As for the submission of my site to the House of Flying Daggers category, I had no choice since my site was removed from Zhang Ziyi. BUT it is worth noting that my site was only added to House of Flying Daggers after my Status Request was made. And I'm sure the editor in question didn't do it.

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How are you so sure who reviewed the site? Or is this conjecture again?

Yeah, I know, from your perspective, posts like mine may seem like paranoia.

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No, it seems like you are dissatisfied with the perceived service which you feel you deserve from the ODP, and you are entering into conjecture to try to explain this as some malicious editor action. Several editors here are trying to show you that the underlying facts do not support your conjecture. If editors have been short with you here it is because you have worded your hypotheses in a rather accusatory way, which tends to elicit a defensive or aggressive response.

But 8 categories?! Yet my submissions go ignored?! It's been nearly a year and I'm still waiting for my Hero submission!

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If you think about this statement, you will see that this is a major non-sequitor - the fact that a site is listed multiple times in the directory can have nothing to do with how quickly or slowly a particular site takes to get reviewed.

Yes, there exists a systemic problem.

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On that we are in agreement. Where we differ is where the problem lies....

Systemic problem? Consisting of a delay in reviewing one site, and a handful of corrections to prior bad edits?

I wish all our problems were that systemic.

Systemic problem

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The only one I see is the number of editors who have spent time on your various URL's sorting out the differences, figuring out what belongs where, reviewing and unreviewing them and switching from one URL to the other. The amount of time spent on this single site is mind boggling. That does not even include the time spent on the abuse reports that you appear to have filed.

You may have the opinion that editor abuse is involved, my own opinion is that abuse is involved also, but it's not from an editor.

>I really don't want to abuse the ODP with multiple submissions. I was content with just one in the first link of this post, until my site was first removed -- for no good reason but to increase the searchability of his.

Zhang, the way not to abuse the ODP is not to blame your abuse ON the ODP but just to stop abusing the ODP.

That means, no more repetitive abuse reports from you -- ever. Unfounded or not, we'll have to do our own abuse investigations without your help. I think we'll all feel less frustrated and hostile that way. That means no more site submittals from you -- ever. We'll just have to find good sites without your help, and again we'll all feel less frustrated and hostile that way.

And, at this point, I think it means no more communications in the forum. The forum policies do not require you to veil accusations in vague and allusive language, but to refrain from accusations altogether. And this constraint seems to be unacceptable to you.

For my part, I'll lock the thread, to reduce the obvious temptation to editors.