No status or time frame and not accepting new editors

I have been trying to get my companies site listed in the directory. Given the nature of our company it might be some what difficult since editors might miss classify the category they feel we best belong in. That said its been months since my first submission. I have no clue what the status is ever since I hit the submit button. The instructions do not clarify if you will be notified at all if the site/URL is or is not added. There is no means to follow up or check the status of a submission after the fact. I have no clue how they can expect people not to repost a URL. Or just assume they will wait forever and see if it shows up, fearing a second post. With no feedback or information to know if its under review, been processed, denied, etc. The process seems to be a joke.

Furthermore I do not accept that editors are short on time. I applied to be an editor and was denied that privilege within an hour of filling out the form. Saying the category is already well maintained. OK well if thats the case then why am I waiting even longer for my URL to be reviewed. Now at this point I have submitted my site twice, with the first attempt being ~3-6 months ago. I am not sure exactly when I suggested my url, since there is no email confirmation, or any way to check status, follow up, etc. Yes its my fault for not recording the date and time of my first submission. But should that really matter, there should be some reasonable time frame to process suggestions, or accept more editors if to many submissions and not enough editors/time, problem solved.

The same day I applied to be an editor, I submitted my URL for the second time, but in a different much more specific category with very few entries. The same category I tried to be an editor for, but was denied because it already has an editor, is well maintained, small, etc. Thus this all seems rather shady. No way to help out and become an editor. No way to have any idea what is going on with the URL you suggested. Lots of potential for problems if you submit more than once. But clearly from looking at other posts, Googling on the net, etc. Many people have no luck with a single respectful, well thought out URL suggestion in an appropriate category. I see local competitors listed. Is my business is not good enough to be listed? I am in many other places listed with the same businesses and others not listed in the DMOZ. Having been in the industry now for 10+ years without my site listed in DMOZ. It really seems to be the DMOZ is a big joke. Some what glad I am not wasting my time, or clients money trying to suggest their URLs to the DMOZ, given what I a having to go through just to get my site listed. Thankfully some are already listed, and how that happened, I have no clue and the clients do not either. Someone else suggested their sites to the DMOZ it seems, or an editor added them as part of their application, no clue.

It seems to take a miracle to get anything listed in the directory. I do not accept the excuse of editors lacking time. I have contributed to a number of FOSS projects, communities, expos, and even been elected to the board of a NPO, non paying. All while I have my own business I own to run, and I never made any money off any of my volunteer contribution efforts. Thus I would be happy to help out the DMOZ as an editor, and not for pay/extortion. Which I find further discerning that from Googling on others problems with DMOZ, many found a solution in paying an editor. What a joke, and that completely contradicts free and community maintained.

Welcome to flame away at my perceived rant, but I have a legitimate gripe.

BTW I forgot to mention that with my application to be an editor. I was also suggestion some other local companies that are my competitors, but are not listed in the DMOZ. Which I do not see how that does anyone any good. Rejecting additional help, and valid entries. Does that make the DMOZ more or less valuable as a resource?

I have no clue how they can expect people not to repost a URL.

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The submission guidelines (that you agreed you'd read) tell you not to.

Furthermore I do not accept that editors are short on time. I applied to be an editor and was denied that privilege within an hour of filling out the form.I applied to be an editor and was denied that privilege within an hour of filling out the form. Saying the category is already well maintained.

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That sounds as though you received the message below (my bolding)

Thank you for your interest in becoming an Open Directory Project editor! Although we would like you to join us as a volunteer editor, you have chosen a category that is already well represented, or is broader than we typically assign to a new editor. We would encourage you to re-apply for a category that has fewer editors or is smaller in scope, in order to increase your chances of being accepted.

Feel free to reapply by submitting an application in another area. If you wish to re-apply, you must fill out another application. Please do not reply to this email.

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In other words, the category you chose was probably too large or otherwise unsuitable for a beginner. Did you then try for a smaller one as suggested?

You might have misunderstood our objectives and how we operate here. ODP is a volunteer organisation building a directory as a hobby. Editors edit where they wish, when they wish and as much as they wish within the constraints of their permissions. We have no schedules or systems to force people to do work that they don't volunteer to do. ODP is not primarily a free listing service for website owners and it does not attempt to process their listing suggestions within the time scales desired by them.

Some volunteer will process your listing suggestion in time but we can't predict who or when that might be. Elapsed times can range from a few days to a few years. There is no need to re-suggest your website and doing so could be counter-productive because a later suggestion overwrites any earlier one.

I have a legitimate gripe.

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..which is probably based upon a misunderstanding of our objectives as outlined above

The category has 2 entries, and I think 2 sub categories with a total of 16 entries between them. I really could not go much smaller.

As for objectives, again I fully understand all volunteer community based projects, organizations, etc. I also understand take a crap or get off the pot. Just the same if they haven't the time, and/or to busy, or its a hobby, then they should welcome others with open hands and less limitations. Much less those that are in the industry as a profession and would allocate time and take it seriously, and not treat it as a hobby. Unless the DMOZ is a hobby site, vs real valued add global web resource.

Furthermore how can the organization have time to process/reject new editors within hours, yet not process submissions in months, weeks, days, and in some cases years. Using common sense, one would think more time would be paid to considering a new editor than a new submission. But many things in life go against common sense.

Again as for the rules, I fully understand them and they are stupid. Provide a status, or means of follow up, and people won't repost. If you take away the motivation and need, then you won't even have to bother with rules. Again just using common sense...

I understand the rules, and my gripe remains! I did not make this post on a whim. I have spent/lost considerable time at something that will yield very little if anything, if even matter, with no success or even progress thus far. I am not alone in this, and start to question what good the editors really feel they are doing the community.

Its important to remember that not all "Volunteer Organizations" are the same. DMOZ is a project comprised of a completely volunteer community of editors. There is still a fundamental breakdown in understanding as to what the goal of this volunteer project is. For one thing, for most of us editing IS a hobby that we enjoy. It is not, nor has it ever been a job. We don't assign tasks although we can grant permissions to more experienced editors to perform different tasks. Given this nature, it is impossible to predict when, where, who, or for how long anyone works at a given moment. Therefore its impossible to provide a timeline for reviewing public suggestions. Also, since the public suggestions are but 1 resource editors use for building the directory there is again no way to predict when an editor will choose to utilize it in a given category for the tasks they are working on.

Most public submitters understand that they are suggesting sites that editors might find useful. As such, they follow the simple saying submit and forget. There is very little time wasted and so long as they see the "Thank you for your suggestion" confirmation their 'task' has been successful. So I am not sure what considerable time has been spent/lost, unless as jimnoble stated above you have misunderstood the objectives and operations of DMOZ. Its ok, it happens more often than we would like but given the miss-information that is out there its not at all uncommon for someone to have the wrong idea. You were given solid advice and answers above, they are well worth revisiting.

As for the editor application questions, not knowing the category in question I cannot speculate on why an application would be denied nor do we address specific applications here. I will say that there are situations where the category while small in total listings, is not suitable for a trainee. If the context of the category is to help navigation to other more narrow areas, its entirely possible that only a limited few sites would actually be included in the category while the scope was much broader. Its a bit confusing even to type, but an example that jumps to mind for me would be Regional/ categories for Metro Areas or Regions. Very few sites would be broad enough in content to be listed directly in these areas (in most cases) but more likely they would fall under one of the smaller more narrow categories (like a locality) that is linked here. Example from my home state: Indiana/Metro Areas

Hope that helps.

Its important to remember that not all "Volunteer Organizations" are the same. DMOZ is a project comprised of a completely volunteer community of editors. There is still a fundamental breakdown in understanding as to what the goal of this volunteer project is. For one thing, for most of us editing IS a hobby that we enjoy. It is not, nor has it ever been a job.

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I fully understand that not all "Volunteer Organizations" are the same, again having been involved with many. Where contributions come in the form of writing code. Something that requires considerably more time all around than maintaining a directory of links. Considering most all of that code also gets documented, usually by the same volunteers writing the code in the first place. The Volunteer FOSS world is tremendously larger and considerably more productive than DMOZ. Not sure what DMOZ's problem is, but seems to be organizational, clearly.

Are you talking internal or external perception?

I never suggested it should be, but what is the harm in allowing editors who would treat it as more than a hobby, and consider it part of their day to day job. Not considering being an editor as a job, but again if they are in the industry already doing similar things. Its not much to add it to the daily tasks, few minutes here and there.

We don't assign tasks although we can grant permissions to more experienced editors to perform different tasks.

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There is nothing wrong with assigning task to volunteers. Think about any disaster, lots of volunteers show if there was no assignment or organization it wuld be shear chaos and pandemonium.

Given this nature, it is impossible to predict when, where, who, or for how long anyone works at a given moment. Therefore its impossible to provide a timeline for reviewing public suggestions. Also, since the public suggestions are but 1 resource editors use for building the directory there is again no way to predict when an editor will choose to utilize it in a given category for the tasks they are working on.

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Fine, then a simple status would do to allow someone to know if a suggestion has been reviewed, rejected, etc.

Most public submitters understand that they are suggesting sites that editors might find useful. As such, they follow the simple saying submit and forget. There is very little time wasted and so long as they see the "Thank you for your suggestion" confirmation their 'task' has been successful. So I am not sure what considerable time has been spent/lost

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Even that process is interesting, editor might find useful. So if a particular editor feels its not useful it does not make it into the directory. No peer review, or any input from the community. Whos to say that editor knows whats best for the community. Does the directory exist for the community or its editors?

Reading documentation, learning about DMOZ submission process, identifying a category, coming up with a proper suggestion, that can only be submitted once in a lifetime it seems. Well that process is surely not a quick submit and forget. With all the rules about multiple submissions it really causes one to not just submit something on a whim to the DMOZ editors. Therefore when someone does spend considerable time just to submit and forget. Its rather hard to forget when there is a goal to be accomplished.

When you are trying to get a site listed, how do you just forget about that? Are you using common sense at all?

There is no misunderstanding on my behalf, and again I am not the only one having issues with DMOZ submissions. Clearly the DMOZ needs to revaluate how the organization is structure and operated. If the DMOZ actually cares about doing the community any good. Keep in mind most any search engine will return upwards of 27k links to my site, and not a one is on DMOZ. Does that make the DMOZ more or less valuable of a resource? DMOZ is pretty moot to me, having been in the industry for 10+ years. I only became aware of it recently via a site called robtex.com and one of their DNS tools.

As for the editor application questions, not knowing the category in question I cannot speculate on why an application would be denied nor do we address specific applications here. I will say that there are situations where the category while small in total listings, is not suitable for a trainee.

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Its one thing to speculate on why an application would be rejected. However no amount of speculation explains how a new editor is rejected faster than a new suggestion. Something is very wrong with that, and leads to further assumptions. I can't get listed, and I can't become an editor, is a competitor an editor of that category? Might explain why other competitors beyond me are not listed. Does that make the DMOZ more or less valuable of a resource?

Trainee, this is just organizing and accepting links. You all are not writing code, and producing things others will depend on and use in a variety of applications. What a joke. Much less the current organization of somethings looks like a crack smoker organized it. The phone book, Google Local/places, and countless other things are organized considerably better. Which leads to further problems with submissions as one can easily identify several categories that they would fall under. In fact I have seen a few sites be listed in several different categories, for what I feel are legit and valid reasons. They serve multiple markets, but according to core DMOZ rules that is against the rules. But those links exist in several categories likely maintained by different editors.

A lack of coordination is clearly apparent.

If the context of the category is to help navigation to other more narrow areas, its entirely possible that only a limited few sites would actually be included in the category while the scope was much broader.

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It links you all over and its poorly organized at best. It really does not help to break things up into really tiny pieces. Search engines and other resources learned this long ago. If there are less than say 10-20 listings, there is no need or reason to break that apart. Yet I see it all over the place, causing fracturing of a category, and makes organization much less finding things really difficult. As what you are looking for can be found in several areas.

Its a bit confusing even to type, but an example that jumps to mind for me would be Regional/ categories for Metro Areas or Regions. Very few sites would be broad enough in content to be listed directly in these areas (in most cases) but more likely they would fall under one of the smaller more narrow categories (like a locality) that is linked here.

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I was dealing in a locality which is why I was so bothered by the speed of my rejection as an editor. With nothing happening on my suggestion. Considering how small the category is, how specific, etc. If anything I might have suggested under the wrong subcategory, but per what I read editors can move it to the proper category if the feel one is better suited. Though the more I learn about the DMOZ, its lack of organization, even for a all volunteer organization, the hobby nature and mindset of the editors, the process of editing, etc.

Not surprised why the DMOZ has never been a resource to me. Which Googling my name provides even more results than my domain name. Not that I am anyone special, just saying that to reinforce my point that as a resource I have never turned to the DMOZ ever before, and I have been many places and used many of resources. Having learned about the DMOZ recently, tried to get my site in there, looking at the other sites in the DMOZ. It all seems like a huge waste of everything, time, resources, bandwidth etc. Probably in time things like Wikipedia and others will likely replace the DMOZ anyway. Given how much can't be found in the DMOZ, not sure how you consider it a good resource. I understand its not a search engine and the selective thing, but there is also complete exclusion, and you really don't do the community any good being overly selective. Surely not when its a single individual responsible for the selection, with no oversight, peer review, submitter contest, etc.

Anyway its what ever to me at this point, I have other better things to do and deal with. You all can have fun with your hobby. Given the economic state of the world, we sure need more hobbyist and less people taking things seriously and doing whats best for the community as a whole.

obsidianstudios said:

I fully understand that not all "Volunteer Organizations" are the same, again having been involved with many.

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From your response it is clear that you do not understand the difference.

Fine, then a simple status would do to allow someone to know if a suggestion has been reviewed, rejected, etc.

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What would you do if you knew the status of the website you suggested.
There are only 3 possible status
1) it is listed - there is nothing you can do
2) it is waiting review - there is nothing you can do
3) it is rejected - there is nothing you can do
In all 3 cases there is nothing you can do in relation to the website and DMOZ. A website is either listable or not. There is nothing that can change that outcome.

When you are trying to get a site listed, how do you just forget about that?

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Ahh, there is the problem.
You can not "try to get a site listed". DMOZ does not have such a function.
The only thing you can do is suggest a werbsite.
It means: "Hi, I found a website which I think could be usefull to be included in DMOZ".
An editor will decide if such a suggestion is valid.
DMOZ is not in the business of listing websites, it is building categories about subjects.
But only categories for which a current editor has an interest will be maintained. The other categories will have to wait until an editor (current or future) will get interested.

DMOZ has such a big impact in the market with regards to websites, search engines, people's business. I am struggling to understand your mentality of saying this is just a "hobby". People are making/losing money with your hobby, this is far beyond your hobby, this is people’s business. You indeed have responsibility and must have authorisation on people who deal with the site requests effectively. What will happen if a volunteer in a specific category died and nobody has volunteered to take over that category what would happen then!? Will you be happy for someone else’s competitors to earn more than others or getting their brand awareness? Or would you simply say that ‘go and buy links to get more traffic to your website’
Again, DMOZ has such a big impact and cannot say that this is just a "hobby". Stop keep repeating yourself with your T&Cs either get them changed or be more flexible with the rejecting/adding the sites...

DMOZ has such a big impact in the market with regards to websites, search engines, people's business.

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That might have been true years ago but I don't think it is now. For example, Matt Cutts of Google has specifically stated that an ODP link is just a link.

I am struggling to understand your mentality of saying this is just a "hobby".

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Do you not have hobbies? Do you let people you've never heard of tell you to spend more time on it. We edit for pleasure and for our downstream data users and surfers. We don't provide any kind of service to website owners.

An ODP listing, whilst nice to have, doesn't cause money to fall from the sky: That's just outdated folklore at best and it's entirely unreasonable to try and lay guilt on the editors here. Quite frankly, if the success of your website depends upon the actions of anonymous and uncontrollable volunteers, I suggest that you shut it down now.

Harsh? Ask your financial adviser!

However no amount of speculation explains how a new editor is rejected faster than a new suggestion.

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No need to speculate, the reason will be blindingly obvious when you look at the priority question from the right direction.

Pretend you're a volunteer who really cares about the amount of work that gets done on a project. Which will get more work done, more quickly?

(1) Doing yet another unit or two of work yourself, OR
(2) Getting another volunteer involved, someone who'll be doing a unit or three of work WHILE you're doing your NEXT unit?

You don't know ahead of time whether reviewing a particular volunteer application will result in an accept or reject -- just as you don't know whether reviewing a particular site will result in an addition to the directory.

People are making/losing money with your hobby

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One of the first major economic results of the ODP was to completely destroy a business model. The major company in that niche had annual income of tens of millions of dollars; after the ODP, it had to start PAYING its former customers millions of dollars annually.

Tens of millions of dollars lost? So that company would say. Millions of dollars saved? So each of its customers would say. Which perspective should I prefer?

The answer is, there is no reason it does matter to me, and there is no reason it should matter to me.

Again to start I participate and contribute to all volunteer organizations regularly. Ones that provide useful products business depend on. My level of involvement has gone so far to be elected to an board of trustees for an International Non-Profit Foundation. While most contributors do it as part of work for the various organizations I am involved with. There are quite a number of hobbyist just the same. Which all manage to be much more efficient at things like writing code, producing products, documenting them, maintaining a community, etc. All of which requires considerable more time than it takes to maintain and organize a directory of links....

Please I am no daft fool, and using common sense, much less my personal experiences in volunteer organizations. I have helped rewrite the bylaws, and helped shape and transform how some are operated and run. Clearly the DMOZ could benefit from such.

Ahh, there is the problem.
You can not "try to get a site listed". DMOZ does not have such a function.
The only thing you can do is suggest a werbsite.
It means: "Hi, I found a website which I think could be usefull to be included in DMOZ".
An editor will decide if such a suggestion is valid.

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Ok, and what makes my competition more relevant for inclusion than me? Or others competitors that are not listed. But are found in just about any other directory with the same categories. It seems editors can be overly selective, and choose only those they are friendly with, paid by, etc. Who knows, but that does not seem fair, balanced, or of any benefit to the end users of the ODP.

Again when I see my competitors, yet I cannot get listed, and my application is immediately rejected. That raises some serious red flags. More so considering my application included other local companies, competitors of mine and those already listed. But none were accepted or listed. It makes no sense, and seems something else is going into the editor decision making as to what is valid or not.

Given that this is a hobby organization. I doubt there is any review of editors actions or the links they are rejecting. Much less if that editor has a personal financial interest in the category they are maintaining. Which would be a conflict of interest, surely if they are not treating/accepting all fairly. Which really seems to be the case. Though without any clue on submission status, no idea if its been rejected or pending review.

What would you do if you knew the status of the website you suggested.
There are only 3 possible status
1) it is listed - there is nothing you can do
2) it is waiting review - there is nothing you can do
3) it is rejected - there is nothing you can do
In all 3 cases there is nothing you can do in relation to the website and DMOZ. A website is either listable or not. There is nothing that can change that outcome.

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If its 2, at least you know no action has been taken.
If its 3, then you can suggest the link again maybe in a different category

If a link is submitted in the wrong category, chances are it will be rejected rather than accepted and moved to the correct category. There is no guarantee otherwise, and again this is a hobby to the maintainers....

There are simply way to many overlapping categories, much less categories in general. Not to mention editors crossing boundaries for categories they are not editors for. There is no documentation of the review process if one editor hands it off to another or what.

That might have been true years ago but I don't think it is now. For example, Matt Cutts of Google has specifically stated that an ODP link is just a link.

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That is correct and in that its nothing special. However many sources to tend to look at the ODP and can effect a sites rank depending on the source. For the most part is completely moot and my interest was solely on the rank aspect. Not that it has any bearing or relevance in the real world. It was just one of the minor things to make sure all ducks were in a row. All the basic business/web site fundamentals in place. Listed in the most common directory being one of them, but again not bearing much weight, value, or of importance.

Pretend you're a volunteer who really cares about the amount of work that gets done on a project. Which will get more work done, more quickly?

(1) Doing yet another unit or two of work yourself, OR
(2) Getting another volunteer involved, someone who'll be doing a unit or three of work WHILE you're doing your NEXT unit?

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Again I don't have to pretend I have been said volunteer and still am in many senses. I also know for a fact, two can do more than one. Thus more hands are always better than less hands most times. Surely when there is lack of progress and delays.

Just the same, being its a directory of links. Much more time should be taken in considering new help than new links. If anything new help should be welcomed, and if one category is taken care of. Maybe redirected to one that is under staffed. Otherwise how is one who is seeking to help out supposed to have any clue what is under staffed, over staffed, etc. What is a good category and fit for a new editor, etc.

You don't know ahead of time whether reviewing a particular volunteer application will result in an accept or reject -- just as you don't know whether reviewing a particular site will result in an addition to the directory.

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Yes, but reviewing an application can be of greater value than adding one more link. That said again, more time and consideration should go into accepting new volunteers. Reviewing an application should take more time than reviewing a suggested link. If for no other reason than the fact that as part of submitting an application, you also suggest links for that category. Which each link must be reviewed, not just the application.

So again I ask, how can an application be process faster than a submission for a link. Given the fact that the application contains links for review...

obsidianstudios said:

Again to start I participate and contribute to all volunteer organizations regularly. Ones that provide useful products business depend on

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Well that is the big difference with DMOZ. DMOZ is not a product or produce products that business are dependend on. Some people/business think they depend on us but they are mislead, either by some SEO-comapny or by their own thoughts.
And even if there is some dependency we don't care as it is not the intention of DMOZ to have such an influence.

Please I am no daft fool, and using common sense, much less my personal experiences in volunteer organizations. I have helped rewrite the bylaws, and helped shape and transform how some are operated and run. Clearly the DMOZ could benefit from such.

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It maybe would benefit those that want DMOZ to be what it is not and also what it does not want to be.

It seems editors can be overly selective, and choose only those they are friendly with, paid by, etc.

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No they can't. Those are acts of abuse and will result in removal of the editor.

Again when I see my competitors, yet I cannot get listed, and my application is immediately rejected. That raises some serious red flags. More so considering my application included other local companies, competitors of mine and those already listed. But none were accepted or listed. It makes no sense, and seems something else is going into the editor decision making as to what is valid or not.

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There is a big difference between "it cannot get listed" (you can read yourself the guidelines that explain which sites cannot be listed) and "is not listed yet" (it is just waiting review with millions of other websites, for us all not reviewed sites are waiting review even those not suggested).

Given that this is a hobby organization. I doubt there is any review of editors actions or the links they are rejecting. Much less if that editor has a personal financial interest in the category they are maintaining. Which would be a conflict of interest, surely if they are not treating/accepting all fairly. Which really seems to be the case. Though without any clue on submission status, no idea if its been rejected or pending review.

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Actions of editors are constantly checked by other editors.

If its 2, at least you know no action has been taken.
If its 3, then you can suggest the link again maybe in a different category

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No you should not. If a site is suggested tp the wrong category it will be moved to the right one. Rejected means rejected for the whole directory.

Just the same, being its a directory of links. Much more time should be taken in considering new help than new links. If anything new help should be welcomed, and if one category is taken care of. Maybe redirected to one that is under staffed. Otherwise how is one who is seeking to help out supposed to have any clue what is under staffed, over staffed, etc. What is a good category and fit for a new editor, etc.

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More time is spend on reviewing 1 applications than on 1 suggested website. It is just a matter of interest and numbers.
As DMOZ is not based on staffing categories there is not something as "staffed" or "under staffed". We can use help overywhere in DMOZ.

So again I ask, how can an application be process faster than a submission for a link. Given the fact that the application contains links for review...

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It is not reviewed faster.
Only the time between an application being made and it being reviewed is smaller that the time between a website being suggested and it being reviewed.
Review does not start at the moment a website is suggested. It can be years later. Could also be sooner.

@obsidianstudios:

- We have over a million categories that need maintenance.
- We have over 4 million listings that need maintenance.
- There are (probably) hundreds of millions of websites out there that we haven't yet evaluated.

We have only a few thousand volunteer editors who allocate part of their spare time doing all this work.

It's obvious that some website promoters are going to be disappointed. We don't feel guilty about that because we aren't trying to provide a service to them anyway. On the other hand, in most topical categories and in many Regional categories, the surfer will often be spoiled for choice - which is what we hope to achieve.

Also, please note that a website being suggested to us doesn't give it any processing priority over one that hasen't. Many owners of excellent websites have never heard of us and it would be nonsense to deny them listings on those grounds. On the other hand, a large part of the suggestion pool is MFA rubbish or worse.

Please stop trying to get us to change our objectives and operating methodology because it's not going to happen.

On the other hand, you are quite at liberty to start your own directory with whatever objectives, financial model and methods you wish. You can even, with proper attribution, use our database to seed it

I have to assert myself here. I think that "Obsidianstudios" has been dead on with what he has stated in this thread and a another one he has posted in. It is clear to me that you (DMOZ Admin) are all very narrow minded when you don't acknowledge what he is saying is plausible. When it comes to the research that I have done in Search Engine Optimization, DMOZ is something that is counted for the sake of page ranking. I have had several SEO Audits and DMOZ validation (if you will) matters. So in the grand scheme of things your "hobby" has in the past and at the temporary present does wield some weight. It sounds to me that "Obsidianstudios" makes a lot of sense...and to tell you the truth, more sense then the message you are trying to send. I to applied to be an editor to help the process along...and heard nothing. I have also suggested a site...and I won't hold my breath to see it on the DMOZ site. You seem to follow/respond to a lot the posts here defending yourself but you do not hear what the people are saying. It seems to me that you found a niche (you call it a hobby). I am surprised you have not found a way to capitalize on it in some way. If you had, it might be more organized and most importantly more efficient! However at this point I don't think you could convince "Obsidianstudios" that you would be more efficient based on your responses to him.

Stop and listen to what people are saying...even if it hurts.

Now that was cathartic...I feel much better!

esebagel said:

When it comes to the research that I have done in Search Engine Optimization, DMOZ is something that is counted for the sake of page ranking. I have had several SEO Audits and DMOZ validation (if you will) matters. So in the grand scheme of things your "hobby" has in the past and at the temporary present does wield some weight.

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We know that a listing in DMOZ will have some impact on search engines. But that impact is exactly the same as any other link to a website. We do not have that information from some people calling themself SEO expert but from a much more reliable source, Goolge.
As DMOZ is not ac tive in the market of SEO/SEM we do not care about the impact we have in that field. It might be big it might be small, for us it might as well be zero.

I to applied to be an editor to help the process along...and heard nothing.

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If you provide the requested information and post in the correct forum part we will tell you the status of your editor application.
All applications will get a response. But sometimes that response gets filtered as spam by teh receiving mail system.
Also please read http://www.resource-zone.com/forum/index.php?showannouncement=14&f=10

I am surprised you have not found a way to capitalize on it in some way. If you had, it might be more organized and most importantly more efficient!

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You might be more surpised. There are people in this world that do not care about making money out of everything they do. DMOZ is and always will stay a free resource.
If DMOZ would be capitalized in someway it would not improve it would die as all editors would quit immedialtely. No people to edit no DMOZ.

Stop and listen to what people are saying...even if it hurts.

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I could say the same to you and all other people with the same grudge.
DMOZ is and will never become.what you want it ot be. That might not something you like but it is the truth. Live with it.

Do you think I know everyone from google, yahoo, msn or any other directories/search engines that you are telling me to shut my business because I am relaying on some enormous people at dmoz!? I think you first of all you should learn or know how to defence your site then give advice people.
You have to live with the fact that you cannot just do/say whatever you like or don’t like, of course you are going to get blamed and you should feel guilty the way you are treating people.
How would you earn money or get brand awareness online?
1) follow google's quality guidelines
2) quality and relative back links
3) usage of title, meta, h1 etc...
and the dmoz (unfortunately) has a big in pack in the market how on earth can you act like this? I wish you never ever exist in the first place or hopefully you will get replaced by others who have some sense of what they are doing...

Naiad said:

You have to live with the fact that you cannot just do/say whatever you like or don’t like,

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You might be surprised but any editor may do whatever he/she likes (as long as it is within the simple guidelines DMOZ has written down)

of course you are going to get blamed and you should feel guilty the way you are treating people.

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Yes, we get blamed by people for not doing what they want us to do.
Do we care. Not at all.
If you blame us for the things we have promised to do we will care.

How would you earn money or get brand awareness online?
1) follow google's quality guidelines
2) quality and relative back links
3) usage of title, meta, h1 etc...

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All are minor points and none of these will make you earn money.
Hard work and spending money might help you reach such goals.

and the dmoz (unfortunately) has a big in pack in the market how on earth can you act like this?

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Because we know that DMOZ has no big infleunce. And we keep telling people. But they refuse to accept the truth as it is not what they want to hear.

I wish you never ever exist in the first place or hopefully you will get replaced by others who have some sense of what they are doing...

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Well just act as if DMOZ does not exist. It will all be the same.
And if you want directories that are just in existence to promote websites, there are enough of them and you always can start one yourself.
The best advise I can give you: If you want a job to be done, do it yourself.