not listed in 3 years : 1001Forums and forum directories category

[1001Forums]

Hi,


I am the webmaster of a forum directory called 1001Forums :

http:[i]//[/i]www.1001forums.com


In this directory, there are, today, 6398 forums classifieds in 3091 categories.


I submitted this website to the appropriate category several times in 3 years, and my website has never been added. It seems that nobody is updating the category where I submitted :

http://dmoz.org/Computers/Internet/Cyberspace/Online_Communities/Directories/


Please, can someone tell me if anyone is in charge of this category and how to contact him ?


The French version (1001forums.fr) has been listed in dmoz a long time ago :

http://dmoz.org/World/Français/Informatique/Internet/Forums_de_discussions/


I just don't understand how a good directory like 1001Forums can not be listed in 3 years.

 

[1001Forums]

Link exchange (joke)

Maybe you are waiting that I list ODP forum in 1001forums.com and then you will list 1001forums.com in Dmoz

I'm going to repair this error, and ODP forum will be listed in 1001forums.com with the highest priority

 

[windharp]

No, we don't wait for any backlinks or something. If an editor asked for backlinks, even to official ODP sites, please report using our public abuse report system so that we can take apropriate actions.

We don't hand out status reports anymore. The reasons for that decision are in our FAQ linked from the top navigation bar. I strongly suggest not to contact specific editors about site listings. Imagine that every single webmaster who sugggested his site would do so...

Basically there is nothing you can do about it, so just lean back and use your time for other forms of promotion. There isn't even a need to wait for a listing, because you can't influence it anyway.

 

[1001Forums]

Transparency ?

I think there is a lack of transparency at ODP. Anything we can ask, 2 possibilities :
1) no answer
2) or the answer "Basically there is nothing you can do about it"

If you never reviewed my website in 3 years, there is really a problem with ODP...

When a good website is submitted in the appropriate category several times in 3 years, and never listed, I think there is a problem. At least you should recognize that.

A few years ago dmoz.org was an updated directory, I think it is not really the case anymore.... It is becoming like yahoo directory : the sites that don't pay to be listed are never listed, even 10 years later.

 

[Eric-the-Bun]

I think there is plenty of transparency in that you are told what the situation is - we are very clear about it being best to 'submit and forget' because we are aware of potentially very long time scales. The main problem is that DMOZ aims to build up a directory of quality resources whilst many people regard it as a listing service for webmasters or a 'means to their particular end'.

The ODP works through a collection of editors each working in areas that they find satisfaction in when they have the time to do so. Reviewing and listing sites is one of these areas.

The first category I edited in had suggested sites that had been waiting for review for up to 4 years (though higher level editors had passed through to handle errors, updates etc.) Eventually someone (me) came along with enough interest in the subject to work in that category. By the time I'm finished, that category will be a good resource but it will be some months more of work. After that, there are at least 60 categories I can edit in that could do with some attention, and after that......

When will there be an editor who is willing to spend time in the category that you are interested in? I don't know, no one does.

'Submit and Forget'

regards

 

[hutcheson]

How long a site has waiting for review, isn't a problem or an issue or even a relevance of any kind. It's history, past and unchangeable. And, for that matter, if it mattered, which it doesn't, we have no reliable way of ascertaining how long it was waiting anyway.

How many good listable sites aren't listed yet, is at least a relevant fact. We suspected there were a million or three of them, most of which haven't been suggested yet. And we know there are millions of sites that HAVE been suggested, most of which will never be listed, and some of which have been, and some of which will be.

And now, you've told us that there is a site, one site, which may or not be listable for all I know, but which has been suggested. It's not at all clear to me what you thought you were adding to the sum of human knowledge by telling us that.

 

[brmehlman]

1001Forums: Please re-read the posting rules you agreed to when you signed up for this forum.

Added to give context to a subsequent reply: In a post that was just above this one until it was deleted for egregious violation of our TOS

There are many more people willing to edit dmoz, and for many categories, there is only one editor responsible, so many categories are not updated for years.

The rest of the post was a comment on the alleged slothfulness of a particular editor, and shall remain invisible.

 

[hutcheson]

>"for many categories, there is only one editor responsible...

Whomever is telling you that is so confused, it's hard to know where to start.

(1) Being an editor is a responsibility. But being a category editor is a privilege, not a responsibility. There's a big difference.

(2) Editors are responsible for their ACTIONS, not their PRIVILEGES. They are responsible for what they do, not what they don't do. Thus, no editor is responsible for a category -- any editor can drop dead at any time, and the community still has the same responsibilities as before.

(3) Even PRIVILEGES to an ODP category never have and never will be given to only one editor, so it's kind of pointless (all right, it's totally pointless) to talk to us about the dangers.

(4) Even in internal ODP discussions, it's dangerous to use the expression "my category", since (all together now) "NO EDITOR OWNS A CATEGORY!" (thanks, and please be seated) mensan, though a deservedly respected editor, doesn't and hasn't and won't ever own any categories.

(5) No editor can block any other editor from working in any area, not for a moment, let alone years. (Only meta-editors, and only with consensus, can remove editor permissions.)

(6) Truly, there are many people who want to edit badly enough to apply. And dozens, who seem to grasp the basic concepts of taxonomy and grammar and ethics, are accepted daily. I doubt if an applicant has EVER been rejected for a category because it had too many editors who were all inactive.

(7) The ODP is pretty well keeping pace with the sites suggested versus reviewed -- it hasn't changed significantly in the last two or three years, so yet another grandiose proclamation turns out to be irrelevant in this context.

(8) And ... a category with more sites suggested than reviewed -- might well indicate that a lot of webmasters were focussing on topics that were already more-than-adequately covered! It might indicate nothing more than the desperation of ignorant spammers. It might indicate the extraordinary influence of a superlatively successful directory.

(9) Since there are already tens of millions of websites waiting for checking, the hundred-million-site-waiting point really wouldn't signal any change. Most of the sites waiting -- probably well over 90% -- aren't listable anyway. We'd keep looking for good ways to find the tiny fraction of sites that matter.

(10) Millions of suggestions have already passed into the "wait forever" queue, and thousands more join them daily. There is no need to wait until some future date before beginning to wait forever for a site review. Anyone can start immediately.

(11) The ODP's mission isn't to review all sites, nor yet to list anything within the lifetime of its author. (Gilgamesh didn't get an ODP category until more than four millenia after his death. And how many mere webmasters alive today can claim to be more important than him?) So long as surfers are offered a comparatively reliable collection of information on a comparatively broad collection of topics, the ODP will be in a unique position among online resources.

 

[glmatthews]

Some final thoughts

I, too, have a couple of sites that have been "waiting for review" for several years now and am forced to accept that it's probably never going to happen. The truth is that I wouldn't even bother with ODP if it weren't for the fact that being listed here improves Google search rankings (or at least it used to).

I'm just a developer who's trying to make a buck and do all I can for my clients who also happen to be folks trying to earn a living (in case you're wondering, I don't do porn or scam sites and I hate spam and spammers) and I don't have much knowledge of such lofty beings as Gilgamesh. Even though all of my clients are businesses, I load their sites with as much useful and relevant information as I can find and I can name at least one that provides much more info than most of those sites listed in the category my site should be in. Consequently, many of those sites that are listed have a commercial advantage over a more informative one that's "waiting." Unfortunately, I'm sure I'm not the only developer with the same frustrations.

I guess hutcheson pretty well sums the ODP attitude with his reference to "sites that matter." Matter to whom -- the editor or the web user? This arrogance is exactly why I have NEVER used ODP to find info on any particular topic. I prefer to decide which sites "matter" to me, thank you very much! For that matter, I don't know anyone who uses ODP and wonder how many site submissions ODP would get if it weren't for Google.

So, without further ado, I'm giving up. In the future, rather than "submit and forget," I think I'll just "forget to submit."

 

[motsa]

The most common reason for a listable site not having been listed yet is simply that no one has gotten around to reviewing it yet. Given the sheer number of sites and potential categories versus the number of editors, it happens.

 

[hutcheson]

The ODP assumption is that the best way to find sites that matter to the SURFER, is to get surfers to volunteer to look for and list sites that matter ENOUGH to them. How much is enough? Enough to inspire the editing work.

So, yes, editors are the largest and best sampling of DIRECTORY surfers the ODP can get. And yes, a sophisticated surfer can by some hard work, usually do better than the ODP category, which is why most ODP categories are still accepting editors. And yes, some surfers have their own ways of finding sites (e.g. not using directories!), which the ODP doesn't fit.

It sounds like you don't fit the profile of surfer the ODP was designed for. And that's OK. There are other surfing tools, and you're welcome to use them.

I think the real arrogance is in abusing a website just because it doesn't serve your interest. If you'll learn to give other people the same right to choose things that matter, as you give yourself, the existance of the ODP won't be so offensive to you.

 

[1001Forums]

Apply and forget to be an editor

And yes, a sophisticated surfer can by some hard work, usually do better than the ODP category, which is why most ODP categories are still accepting editors

You are not accepting editors. No one knows how to become an editor at ODP. I suppose it is necessary to be "recommended" by someone else inside your sectarian system.

"Apply and forget to be an editor. Anyway you'll never become one."

Since there are already tens of millions of websites waiting for checking, the hundred-million-site-waiting point really wouldn't signal any change

Yes, as I already said, that just change the time we have to wait. 10 years now to be added, and 100 years soon... If you have 10 millions websites waiting, with your 70 000 editors, that is 142 websites per editor. On your 70 000, I bet 90% are inactive. That is 1500 websites per active editor. And I also bet your "active" editors are editing at most 10 websites per month. So it is 150 months (more than 10 years) before you check all the websites waiting.

If you want to keep your directory updated, you need at least to have 5 or 10 more editors that you have now. But still you continue to ignore all the editors applications, except for your "friends".

 

[spectregunner]

You are not accepting editors. No one knows how to become an editor at ODP. I suppose it is necessary to be "recommended" by someone else inside your sectarian system.

But still you continue to ignore all the editors applications, except for your "friends".

Your rhetoric, beyond bordering on the obnoxious, is woefully out of touch with reality.

Had you taken a few moments to read, instead of blathering on, you might have found this:

Editors

ODP is maintained by a global community of volunteer editors, who commit their free time to improving and developing the directory. There is no time requirement: doesn´t matter if a volunteer edits some minutes per month or several hours a day, the contribution is welcome and appreciated. After four months of inactivity, editor accounts expire, but volunteers can request reinstatement if they have time to edit again.

* Currently active editor accounts: 7,597
* Number of editor accounts approved since the foundation of ODP: 71,686
* New editors: 289
* Reinstated editors: 303
* Accounts inactivated for a variety of reasons (inactivity, resignation, removal): 664

That was taken from http://research.dmoz.org/publish/chris2001/odp_reports/report_200602.htm which is linked from this R-Z thread: http://resource-zone.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=42201

Next time, before shooting off your mouth, try and do a bit of reading first.

 

[lmocr]

The ODP accepts new editors every day - please see the ODP Reports for information on that.

The 70,000 editors is a cumulative figure, a more accurate count of active editors is also found in the ODP Reports. Hovering somewhere around 8,000 (give or take).

 

[hutcheson]

I hate to discourage someone "doing the math", so I'll throw some more accurate numbers out. 90% inactive is actually pretty close, as was mentioned (of course, that's a highly public figure. The actual average editor activity is closer to an action a DAY, not a month: but of course there are many many things to do other than just process site listing suggestions. Still, I'd guess about half, more or less (that is, somewhere between one third and two thirds) of those actions are related to suggested sites.

But there are still some problems in the arithmetic. For one thing, I can tell you right now: the average wait (whether you calculate by arithmetic mean, geometric mean, or median) is already infinite. That is, more than half of the sites suggested will wait forever. That won't change. (And that's not a problem, that's a good thing for our users -- that is something the ODP can do better than anyone else these days--make the spammers wait!)

So the concept of "average" wait doesn't really correspond well to either mathematical models or ODP reality. (This is a mathematical subtlety that may be hard to grasp if you don't have some dim memory of the calculus. Don't worry about it: just think of it as "adding pineapples and cedar apples and dividing by board feed of lumber." It doesn't work.)

Remember, also, that the editor backlog isn't the submittal queue--which is just suggestions to the editor, not a to-do list. The backlog is the whole internet (which is of course much larger that the suggestion pool.)

So how does that affect the calculation? My searches have fairly consistently suggested that for the more obscure topics the ODP consistently has listed the majority of listable sites on the internet. And, when it comes down to that, that's really all that matters -- nobody else can make that claim. Can we keep doing that? I don't know. I don't think anyone does.

So that's two things the current ODP process does better than anyone else on planet earth. Is that good enough to make it worthwhile? Only the people who do it can say, and each one can speak only for himself. Is that good enough to make it useful for surfers? each surfer can decide for himself.

 

[1001Forums]

Time to review

For one thing, I can tell you right now: the average wait (whether you calculate by arithmetic mean, geometric mean, or median) is already infinite. That is, more than half of the sites suggested will wait forever.

I should have say "verified" and not "added". If the time to be added is infinite for some websites, because there are not good enough or refused for some reasons, it's not a problem, it's common to all directories.

The problem is when the time become infinite to verify the sites waiting ! That is your problem now !

Even to list the best websites on the web you are less and less updated because of that. And, if in a category, there are not the best websites, your category is just useless.

Currently active editor accounts: 7,597

I didn't read this but in one second I was right by betting only 10% are active

My calculation was right, you take 10 years just to check all the sites waiting (I said "check" and not "add", that means they can be refused after checking and never been added). This time to review the sites waiting will be longer and longer. As a result, even the best websites won't be recorded in your categories and your directory will just become useless. For this reason, as just said glmatthews, you are just becoming a place to increase google page ranking, for the lucky ones.

 

[brmehlman]

If you looked at the title page of a huge encyclopedia and saw that the articles were contributed by 71,904 authors, would you be expressing dismay upon learning that only 7,597 were still writing articles for the work? I mean, of course, if you weren't already looking hard for something to complain about.

 

[windharp]

It's quite common to give a sum of the people that have worked on a project. Wikipedia for example claims to have "1,115,419 registered user accounts".

The only difference is that we remove unused accounts with a timeout mechanism, which IMHO is a good thing to do.

 

[Cissy258]

Nana (grandmother) just trying to understand all of this!

From reading the post just now, I am beginning to think I just wasted a lot of time. I launched my website ItsAboutChime.com two days before we took custody of our grandchildren. Girl 9 and boy 7.
I just wanted to know if my website will eventually be posted? I submitted it back in November and still nothing. I re-submitted it today. Was that wrong, I did not see it so....re-submitted. All of these rules make my head hurt. I am 48 yrs old and winging all of this. Just trying to make some extra money for my grandkids. No expert here. Can you tell?
Geez, oh well
Thanks,
Cissy

 

[hutcheson]

One resubmittal usually does not make a spammer.

Wanting to make some extra money, without providing an extra service -- often does.

We know less about whether your website is listable than you do, and of course NOBODY knows WHEN it might be reviewed. (Expertise is no help at all on some questions.)

If you are trying to make money, then you'll need to do the usual things honest people do to make money: that is, perform useful services (including manufacturing useful goods as a service), and promoting/advertising those services. The ODP really doesn't do either of those things. So it shouldn't enter into any business plans.