Oddities with my current listing(s)

Here are the two listings for my site as they exist today in the DMOZ

Dragon Page Reviews - Reviews from SFF radio show host Joe Murphy.
-- http://dragonpage.com/reviews.html Arts: Literature: Genres: Science Fiction: Reviews (1)

The Dragon Page Radio Talk Show - Listen to an interview with Tracy Hickman.
-- http://www.dragonpage.com/archives/000007.html Arts: Literature: Genres: Fantasy: Authors: H: Hickman, Tracy (1)

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For the first one, it's great to have our review section listed. It probably needs to stay, though I don't want to decrease my chances of having other sections of the site, which are more relevant to general sci-fi/fantasy, exluded from DMOZ.

The second link probably should go. I have copy of Tracy's bio on the page in question, but I also have just about 200 other author bio pages. You don't want all of them in the DMOZ I'm sure.

What I really want to see a more general listing about my site. We're a sci-fi/fantasy talk show, and there are four categories within the DMOZ which show up under a search for "science fiction"

Arts: Literature: Genres: Science Fiction (317 matches)

Arts: Genres: Science Fiction and Fantasy (209)

Arts: Visual Arts: Thematic: Science Fiction and Fantasy (73)

Arts: Illustration: Fantasy and Science Fiction (33)

Arts: Writers Resources: Fiction: Science Fiction and Fantasy (42)

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I wrote to the editor of the sci-fi sections asking my links to be moved and updated to the general Arts: Genres: Science Fiction and Fantasy section. That was about a month ago. Any suggestions or an update?

As the editor of a cat under Arts: Genres: Science Fiction and Fantasy, I've noticed that (IMHO) many of the cats under Arts: Literature: Genres: Science Fiction should be under it.

As for your main site, may I suggest Arts: Genres: Science Fiction and Fantasy: Multimedia? It may not be a perfect choice, but there is a radio show already there....

These views are my own, and do not represent those of ODP as a whole, or of Time Warner.

Forgive me for being obtuse...

As the editor of a cat under Arts: Genres: Science Fiction and Fantasy, I've noticed that...

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So, as you have editor power, will you be moving (or whatever the appropriate term would be) the listing as ou suggested to the "multimedia" section, or should I re-submit my site under that category? I'm leery of over-submitting and have no desire to try and flood the DMOZ with my site; even if it it probably does belong in several different areas.

Re: Forgive me for being obtuse...

I don't have editor power in any of the cats in question.

What I would do, were I you is:

For the review site, suggest (using the Update URL link) that it be moved from Arts: Literature: Genres: Science Fiction: Reviews to Arts: Genres: Science Fiction and Fantasy: Reviews, with an explanation that it seems a better fit.

Submit your main site to Arts: Genres: Science Fiction and Fantasy: Multimedia. If you've already submitted it elsewhere (1 other place in the directory), put a note to that effect in [] at the end of the description.

Neither the review page or the Tracy Hickman page would likely be accepted if submitted. The guidelines state that we (the ODP) lists sites, not pages, and that deeplinks are only listed if the editor feels they contain unique information.

This is my personal opinion, and does not represent the views of the ODP. I cannot guarantee that either your submission or the change request will be accepted.

Sometimes it's hard to explain our deep linking policies to anyone who hasn't had a lot of experience at ODP. While deep links like the Tracy Hickman interview are exceptions to the general guideline, the category for Tracy Hickman has very little content in it. From that point of view, your interview is adding a lot to that category, where other deep links on your site may not.

This is why we don't want deeplinks submitted, but you see deep links in the directory. I have marked your site as a good source for deep linking in author cats that need content, and will probably be adding a few of these to some cats I've wanted better content in. I'd prefer if you did not submit any more though.

As for the main site, I agree it should be listed somewhere--if I had found it on my own I certainly would have, so I've spent some time reviewing it, and placed it in the Multi-Media cat--for now.

This doesn't seem like the place it should go though, as that cat is a general arts cat and your site focuses on Literature. With no links to that cat from Literature, sites like yours could be hidden from the people that most need to see it, so I'll be thinking of a better way to do this over the next couple of days.

About the reviews deeplink, I don't think I want to remove it yet until I've solicited the opinion of an editor that does reviews, or at least look at it a little closer (It's past bed time here, so I'll have to finish this later).

It's always refreshing to see a good site with unique interviews. I'd love to hear the show on a local station someday (I'm in Eastern Washington); until then I'll have to try to catch it online, I guess.

So here's what I'm thinking...

Here’s my current thought process. I’m in no way trying to rush anyone and I appreciate the attention so far. After reading other posts and trying to comprehend the mind of an ODP editor and the challenges faced by said, I’m offering up the following option for consideration.

I get the fact that the ODP isn’t keen on listing multiple pages for a single site. Life insurance and car insurance… it’s all insurance. Science Fiction interviews or science fiction bios… it’s all science fiction. Sections of the site have to be significantly different to warrant multiple listings. So with that in mind…

I think three sections of my site are distinctly different enough to warrant individual listings:

http://dragonpage.com/reviews.html --> Arts: Genres: Science Fiction and Fantasy: Reviews
This page/section is currently listed as Literature reviews, which is too limiting. We have reviews for books and movies on the page today, for example. These reviews stand on their own and are neither reinforced nor hindered by the other sections of the website.

http:/dragonpage.com/forum --> Arts: Genres: Science Fiction and Fantasy: Chats and Forums
This active forum goes well beyond any topics or sections of the rest of our site. Yes, I realize that almost every site has a forum section, and listing them all would get quite tedious. However, since the information contained in this section is compartmentalized away from the rest of the site, and again neither reinorcing nor detracting from the other sections, it too should warrant its own listing.

http://dragonpage.com --> Top: Arts: Genres: Science Fiction and Fantasy
The information on this page is all about the radio show, past shows, guests and the hosts. Not a forum, not a review… just information about the show itself. Listing it under “Mulimedia’ as it is today seems incorrect, as it’s a radio show with a website, so I guess you could consider it “bimedia”!

I await feedback from all. Also, some direction on how to proceed would be helfpul. I’m prepared to fill out a URL change for the first and last, as well as submit a new URL for the middle. But again, I’ll wait until feedback is delivered before acting.

Best,

Evo

I just want to say that I more-or-less agree with your analysis, noting that (under those circumstances) it would be editor discretion whether your two subsites would be listed at all.

But I don't edit in those areas, or any area where your site should be listed, so my comment should be taken for what it's worth.

[edit]Let me rephrase. YOU SHOULD NOT submit the subsites. The editors might choose to list them. If the subsites were to be listed, that's where the editors might choose to list them.[/edit]

Hi Evo,

What you are suggesting would be considered inappropriate. Listing a root URL in a parent category and listing sub-sections of the root in sub-sections of the parent is discouraged.

From the guidelines:
"If a site offers many different things, it should be listed in a more general category as opposed to listing it many specialized subcategories. [...] For example, if you have a site on US History covering the American Revolution, the Civil War, and the Presidents, you should not list it in each one of those subcategories, but rather list it in a general category such as Society/History/By_Region/North_America/United_States/"

So, if your site fits in Arts/Genres/Sci-Fi&F then that's where it would be listed and deeplinking in sub-cats of the parent should not be done.

I just wanted to clarify the relations of the SF&F subcats.

Arts: Literature: Genres: Science Fiction (317 matches)
Arts: Visual Arts: Thematic: Science Fiction and Fantasy (73)
Arts: Illustration: Fantasy and Science Fiction (33)
Arts: Writers Resources: Fiction: Science Fiction and Fantasy (42)

and many others, are all virtual subcategories of Arts: Genres: Science Fiction and Fantasy (209). In other words, Arts: Genres: Science Fiction and Fantasy (209) is the parent category, but for a secondary organization methodology. The primary method of organization in the Arts branch is by type of art (literature, visual arts, illustration) and the secondary is by Genre (SF&F, romance, horror). Sites that fit within one primary type of art are listed under that category, and then in a specific genre if it applies. Sites that cover multiple types of art, but focus on one genre get listed under the genre.

I will fix a few oddities (like the naming of the illustration subcat) but in general the category structure is consistent with how we organize things that can have two type of classification.

So with that logic...

The primary method of organization in the Arts branch is by type of art (literature, visual arts, illustration)...

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So in this case, our type of art would be "Radio". Following that logic, I discover a destination that is built as Arts:Radio:Formats:Talk Radio (203). But that doesn't really fit, as while our show is most definitely talk radio, our site is not about talk radio.

So I keep reading.

... and the secondary is by Genre (SF&F, romance, horror). Sites that fit within one primary type of art are listed under that category, and then in a specific genre if it applies. Sites that cover multiple types of art, but focus on one genre get listed under the genre.

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Yes, we cover multiple types of the Arts:Generas:Science Fiction and Fantasy:

• Games
• Writing
• Chats and Forums
• Fandom
• Humor
• News
• Reviews
• ... and just about every virtual category (listed with an @ symbol) you find under that heading.

Having said all of that, is it the general concensus my site will get a single listing in Arts:Generas:Science Fiction and Fantasy? If so (or not) what do I need to do from my end? It sounds like Lissa has the power to make changes in here. Will she also handle adding me? Not playing dumb, just wanna make sure I follow the rules here. You've all been quite patient with me. Thanks for that!

Best,

Evo

tmanscipan said:

So in this case, our type of art would be "Radio". Following that logic, I discover a destination that is built as Arts:Radio:Formats:Talk Radio (203). But that doesn't really fit, as while our show is most definitely talk radio, our site is not about talk radio.

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The Talk Radio category is for websites for actual talk radio shows. Look in http://www.dmoz.org/Arts/Radio/Formats/Talk_Radio/Programs/ and you will se the specific programs. Your site certainly could fit here.

Your site is also a good fit under SF&F. Right now it is listed under http://dmoz.org/Arts/Genres/Science_Fiction_and_Fantasy/Multimedia/ along with another talk radio show. If you were only going to be listed in one category, I think the SF&F one is better, since that's where your target audience will be looking.

However, there is a way for you to be in both places. Find a couple of more websites for Science Fiction or Fantasy talk radio shows and submit them. With 4 or 5 sites, we have enough to justify making a subcategory for them and linking them in both places.

BTW - although your site covers a broad amount of topics, it is unique for being a talk radio show. Normally we would list a site with your breadth at the main level of SF&F, but if there is something unique to separate it out, we prefer to do that, otherwise we end up with a really broad listwhere everything is a hodge podge. The Multimedia subcat is an attempt to do that, although there may be a better way to handle those sites.

lissa said:

However, there is a way for you to be in both places. Find a couple of more websites for Science Fiction or Fantasy talk radio shows and submit them. With 4 or 5 sites, we have enough to justify making a subcategory for them and linking them in both places.

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I saw a list of SF radio shows on his site. As I don't have a high-speed Internet connection and a speaker in the same computer, I can't verify which of them may qualify, but, if he doesn't submit them, I'll certainly consider doing it myself.

Lissa said...

Find a couple of more websites for Science Fiction or Fantasy talk radio shows and submit them. With 4 or 5 sites, we have enough to justify making a subcategory for them and linking them in both places.

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And then Arubin said...

I saw a list of SF radio shows on his site. I can't verify which of them may qualify, but, if he doesn't submit them, I'll certainly consider doing it myself.

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All of the links on my "Other Shows" page qualify (I would imagine), and I'll be submitting them this evening. Thanks for the suggestion!

Tonight... right now... what's the difference! ;-)

So I couldn't wait until tonight. I went ahead and submitted the links from my "Other Shows" page to the Arts:Radio:Formats:Talk Radiorograms section with a suggestion to place these in a new subcategory.

I then went through the Programsaranormal section and suggested three links of sci-fi shows be moved over. Sci-fi radio is not paranormal radio, trust me.

Now the waiting begins...