Questions regarding dmoz.org's structure and search

Hi

I wrote this in an e-mail to staff@dmoz.org but I guess they're either too busy, or it was the wrong e-mail address, or...whatever. Maybe someone here can help me.


I was wondering why some ODP categories/directories are organised the way they are.
Firstly, there are different names for categories of the same subject area. E.g. the categories of

- Computers: Software: Shareware: Windows: Internet: Email: Spam Prevention
- Computers: Software: Internet: Servers: Mail: Sendmail: Spam Filtering
- Computers: Software: Internet: Clients: Mail: Unix: Procmail: Filtering Spam
- Computers: Software: Internet: Clients: Mail: Windows: Tools: Anti Spam

all deal with Spam filtering, but the category names are all different (e.g. Spam Filtering vs. Filtering Spam).


Secondly, it appears to me that some Windows content was given preference over Macintosh content. "Computers: Software: Desktop Customization: Utilities" lists Windows desktop customisation utilities, whereas Macintosh desktop customisation utilities are one directory 'deeper' in "Computers: Software: Desktop Customization: Utilities: Macintosh". Why is that? Wouldn't it be more appropriate to either have a Windows and a Macintosh (and a Linux) directory, or to put all these utilities into the same directory?


Thirdly, why is the World Wide Web sometimes referred to as "Web" (e.g. "Computers: Graphics: Web") and sometimes as "WWW" (e.g. "Computers: Internet: WWW")?
By the way, a search on "WWW" even returns categories/directories, which apparently are not related to the WWW, such as "Arts: People: M: Margolis, Cindy".


Some directories about "web cams" have a blank between "web" and "cam", other don't.


In http://dmoz.org/Computers/Internet/On_the_Web/Weblogs/Science_and_Culture/Religion/ there are two links to two weblogs. The catholic weblog is in directory
Society:Religion_and_Spirituality:Christianityenominations:Catholicism:Apologetics:Weblogs
whereas, the Lutheran is in
Society:Religion_and_Spirituality:Christianityenominations:Lutheraneople:Blogs


Last but not least, I was wondering why the search function of dmoz.org doesn't seem to work as before. What I mean is that when I was searching for the title of a web site listed in the ODP I was returned with the entry plus the category/directory where this entry is located. However, now I will get the error message "No Open Directory Project results found".

Let me illustrate this with an example: Searching for "Disabling Relaying" doesn't return the relevant entry from the page http://dmoz.org/Computers/Software/Internet/Servers/Mail/Sendmail/Spam_Filtering/. Instead I am returned the error message "No Open Directory Project results found" (a click on "Google Directory" returns the entry and the category it is in, but I'd like to use ODP for such a search).

If I remember right, this search feature seemed to work until beginning of April... Is this a temporary problem or has this search feature been permanently disabled here?


I understand that many people are contributing to the ODP, which makes a consistent structure difficult, but would it be possible that meta guys can explain and coordinate the aforementioned issues?


Thanks for your help, I appreciate it!
jorg.

I'll answer your last question first: Search is currently broken. There are a number of threads here on the subject. We know about it and it is actively being worked on.

As for the others, this is a human-edited directory. While we strive for consistency, with thousands of editors it is quite likely that there will be some differences in terms and taxonomy. What makes sense to one person is nonsensical to another. (Not to mention differences in English and American spelling. Don't even get me started on trying to stay consistent with other languages.) The Regional tree has a very structured set of terms used, as do some other trees, like Business. Others aren't so structured.

In some cases, you're seeing the "old" way of organizing things but, because it's not "broken," there's been no effort to "fix" it.

But, thank you for bringing them to our attention. I'll bring them up on our internal fora to allow discussion on how, or if, we should make changes.

Since my last post (a while ago...) I have had a more in-depth look into the ODP and found some more issues that, given time and feasibility, might be fixed in future.

Hence, I hope I may point out some more things I noticed on some pages. There might be more of those mentioned below on other pages...maybe all can be found through site-wide searches? The following points are well-meant suggestions and stimuli for discussions in editor forums, to which I don't have access.

In order not to bother you guys with too many posts, I collected these points over two months now whenever I could spare some time. So it could actually have happend that particular editors have already fixed the issues since.

Ok, heeeere we go:

- Some pages dealing with FAQs or tutorials are either just named so, while it appears to me that a majority has been commonly named "FAQs, Help, and Tutorials" (again, maybe a search can reveal those 'incompletely' named pages). Dito for "News" and "News and Media".


- On /Business/Education_and_Training/ there is a side-way link to "Investing", which points to /Business/Investing/. However, there is a directory within "Investing" with the name of "Education and Training", which seems more appropriate to me to point to. I couldn't find a category editor in /Business/Education_and_Training/. So I let someone know here...


- /Business/Electronic and Electrical/Consumer Products <> /Business/Consumer Goods and Services/Electronics ????


- A few directories of "Education" (or "Education and Training"), "Employment" and "Marketing and Advertising" are missing in /Business/Education and Training/, /Business/Employment/ and /Business/Marketing and Advertising/. E.g. /Business/Energy and Environment/Education (or the side-way link there) is not listed in /Business/Education and Training/.


- Shouldn't /Business/Financial_Services/US_Government_Financial_Sites/ be in the Regional category?


- I'm definitely not an expert in Storage and Handling Equipment, but is it right that in /Business/Transportation_and_Logistics/ there are two links ("Materials Handling" and "Storage and Handling Equipment") to /Business/Industrial_Goods_and_Services/Industrial_Supply/Materials_Handling/ ?


- Also in /Business/Transportation_and_Logistics/ there is a link named "Glossaries", while links to similar resources in other /Business/-directories are named "Dictionaries". Just wonder whether this is correct.


- The "Flexography Products" link in /Computers/Hardware/Peripherals/Printers/Supplies/Thermal/ is faulty. I guess it should be Business/Publishing and Printing/Printing/Processes/Flexography.


- Why is there a separate section "North America" in /Business/Telecommunications/Equipment/Suppliers/, rather than in a sub-directory "Regional/North America"?


- I noticed that on some pages there is a 'forward-slashed directory spelling' in addition to the otherwise usual 'colon directory spelling', e.g. in /Business/Telecommunications/Equipment/Suppliers/Central_Office/.


- Why does e.g. /Business/Education_and_Training/Driving/ list so many US driving schools? Shouldn't they go into an appropriate category within "Regional/North_America"? I noticed similar regional entries in a number of other categories.


- Similar to before: /Business/Arts_and_Entertainment/Photography/Photographers/Aerial/Regional/ contains on entry of someone ("Chamois Moon") located in San Francisco. There is also a North_America/United_States/ directory within, and I was wondering why it's not in there.
There are a few "Regional" directories under the /Business/Arts_and_Entertainment/Photography/ section. Wouldn't it make sense to use sideway links to the /Regional section? And: Sometimes countries/regions are sorted into a separate "Regional/" (or "By Region/") directory; sometimes however they are not (see /Business/Arts_and_Entertainment/Photography/Photographers/Fashion/ or /Business/Arts_and_Entertainment/Photography/Stock/)


- It appears to me that 401(k) in /Business/Human_Resources/Compensation_and_Benefits/401k_and_Retirement/ is a US retirement scheme. Shouldn't this be listed in the appropriate directory in "/Regional/North_America/United_States/Business_and_Economy/" or similar?


- /Business/Investing/Exchanges/ has two entries, "Equities@" and "Stocks and Bonds@" pointing to the same source: /Business/Investing/Stocks_and_Bonds/Exchanges/.


- How come Associations/ (/Business/Agriculture_and_Forestry/Growers/Floral/Associations/) doesn't appear on /Business/Agriculture_and_Forestry/Growers/Floral/?


A question in general out of curiosity:
Why has "Weather" been separated in the Regional-category, when "Weather" is part of the top category of News? What I mean is, why isn't the regional "Weather" category part of the regional "News and Media" category?


Thanks for considering these things, which will hopefully contribute to making the ODP even better.

Cheers
jorg.

Ever thought of applying to be an editor? We have all kinds of discussions like this internally in order to try to make things standard and consistent after they have become broken. If you like this kind of thinking, you might find it an enjoyable hobby and mental challenge.

And by the way, there is an internal discussion going on about the Spam filtering as a result of your first post- since I've ssen that one. The other points you raised I'm sure were also brought up. However, sometimes these changes take some time to sort out, since it's messed up now, it should be changed correctly so it won't have to be dealt with again.

- I noticed that on some pages there is a 'forward-slashed directory spelling' in addition to the otherwise usual 'colon directory spelling', e.g. in /Business/Telecommunications/Equipment/Suppliers/Central_Office/.

Click to expand...

Could you clarify this one - I'm not seeing what the problem is?

==========================

As far as the Weather I was wondering the same thing myself yesterday. I don't know the history, and why it was done that way, but my guess would be that if you look at the ODP structure at the top level, there is no valid reason to have Weather by itself, it could be a division of News, since News provides the weather information and it also could be a subdivision of Science, since Weather ia a branch of Science.

However, once you create a Region then you have a physical entity and that Region has weather as it's property, and it becomes reasonable to have that a main subcat. As a result it gets moved up to that level out of News, but News within Region still gets a News@ category which is a pointer to it.

Yeah, maybe I should try again to apply as an editor. I remember doing so back in 2001 or so but never got a reply to why I was rejected... I would say that I have an eye for detail. That's why I noticed all these things.

Regarding the particular problem you mentioned in your second post: That one has been fixed now, I suppose. However when I found it, it looked roughly like this:
-- snipp --
Top: Business: Telecommunications: Equipment: Suppliers: Central Office
Top/Business/Telecommunications/Equipment/Suppliers/Central_Office/
-----------------------------------------------------
* Aculab - Provider of open...
* AirLan Telecom Services, LLC - Provider of...
...
-- /snipp --

Some directories might still have this colon-notation and the slash-notation, though I can't pinpoint it now anymore.

Ever since the beginning there was always an automated reply to the new editor app for confirmation. Since you did not get one something probably went wrong. That is not a new thing. Even now that happens sometimes due to spam filters and such. You should try again. Make sure you apply that attention to detail on our editor guidelines and submitted site descriptions as you do to category problems you reported here before you apply and I doubt you will have a problem.

However, I am not a meta (the level of editor that accepts newapps) so my opinion should just be taken as general information and guessitude (my new word). Good Luck if you decide to apply again. The metas are real picky though, we like them like that.

jorg said:

Regarding the particular problem you mentioned in your second post: That one has been fixed now, I suppose. However when I found it, it looked roughly like this:
-- snipp --
Top: Business: Telecommunications: Equipment: Suppliers: Central Office
Top/Business/Telecommunications/Equipment/Suppliers/Central_Office/
-----------------------------------------------------

Click to expand...

bobrat didn't answer, but that one is a known problem. There was a short period of time during which the path appeared as text on category pages, and those pages which were last edited during the time that occured appear that way to the public.

And ontological (that's what we call it, although it's closer to taxonomy) discussions go on all the time on the internal forum.