Realtors and templates?

Greetings, I am a semi-retired realtor. I no longer sell homes but rather train aspiring realtors, I have 30+ years of experience. I recently applied to be an editor for my city because I know the industry inside and out.

The question I have regards duplicate content. In the real estate industry there are a handful of dominant web design companies. These companies provide template sites for realtors. The realtors that purchase these templates simply get to select layout design and have their personal information placed throughout the site. The problem is probably 60% of websites for realtors are like this. Does the duplicate content policy, therefore, mean that all these websites are invalid and should not be added?

I anticipate having my editorial status approved, once the system stabilizes. So, I'd like to get this matter clarified before I start cleaning up the cateogry I applied for.

Thank you

It's a matter which is open for a lot of debate in the editing community, believe me.

Here's the approach I try to take, though - if in my mind I block out content which is widely available on other sites, and something I could find in the Yellow Pages, what am I left with? That is the content which I am going to judge. If that content is very well buried, so a user can't find it easily, or if there isn't very much, then I would probably deny the site a listing.

As I said, that's my approach - others might be able to contribute theirs.

If your application is approved, you will have access to our internal forums where you will find numerous discussions on this topic

If your application is approved, you will have access to our internal forums where you will find numerous discussions on this topic

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"numerous" may be an understatement.

Alucard,

That is an interesting approach. I could see that approach probably removing at least 50% of the realtor listings in dmoz. I was involved with a regional ethics committee. One of the biggest problems we would receive complaints on was realtors plagerizing other realtor's content. If someone were to have a strong understanding of the content in a particular metro, after removing the template sites, you would probably remove another 25% of the sites because they just plagerized content from other realtors.

Applying your formula would see a significant reduction in listings. Let me ask you this, if I were toapply your formula I would have to remove many of the listings in the system. The question is, how do I identify who originally made the content versus all the thieves? How would I know which site to delete? I can't think of a fair way to do it other that just selecting someone at random. However, how wronged would the originator of the content feel if they were removed or denied a listing in DMOZ for duplicate content because a plagerizer submitted to DMOZ first...

Frank,

And with those paragraphs you have captured a lot of the points made in the editor discussion fora.

IMHO using a template is something totaly different as content.
Using a template means you will have a standard look-and-feel for all sites using that template (sometimes these sites will have different colors and images as those can be specified within the template).
It comes all down to what you will put as information on the sites.
If these site have the same content (text, listings of houses etc) they shouldn't be listed. But if they all have only a listing of the house of their own company there is nothing against them using all the same look-and-feel. Although for an editor it could look as if all these sites are the same. But an experienced editor will/should know the difference.

Pygool,

I am not certain if we are supposed to shy away from specifying names or URLs here so I will try to be abstract in my following explanation.

The problem is Company A develops websites for realtors. They have perhaps 30 layout templates from which a realtor can select. These layouts can be further customized by realtors specifying banners, footers, etc. The problem comes in when you discuss content. While the layout of Site 1 versus Site 2 may be different, because they were both made by Company A, they have 95% of the same content. The same information on local schools, job opps, housing stats, relo info, etc. Generally speaking the only distinguishing characteristics is their contact information on the bottom of every age and maybe an "About Us" page. The big problem is Company A is responsible for perhaps 25% of the realtor websites out there.

I guess I would look at it this way. DMOZ is made for the consumer. The consumer comes to DMOZ. They look at a category of "residential real estate agents of city X". The directory contains 30 listings. Lets say the first 5 listings happen to be made by Company A. If the consumer went to these pages individually and looked through them they would have nothing to gain. The consumer would read everything from the first site. The consumer would have very minimal new information on the following 4 sites. The only new information they may have is a brief bio about the different realtors. Therefore, the consumer experience is poor and that would reflect negatively on DMOZ.

Hmm... for some reason the Edit button isn't working.

Anyways, the short version of the point I was trying to make above is that a template does not have to be restricted to graphical and layout elements. A template can be content based. You can have 100 websites which have teh same content but look like different websites, for example, affiliate sites. This is very predominant in real estate.

OK, the way you described it these sites are not listable.
reason: no unique content
Will one of these site be listed. maybe yes maybe no. I can't say without seeing them.

IIRC something which has variations of name, address, phone number don't constitute unique content. Gotta have more than that.

Mortgages is another area with hopes of templated listings without content. Real estate agents and mortgage brokers are easy to find, but unique content seems surprisingly difficult. I imagine that the quest for a quick buck in this overheated US real estate market causes a mental short-circuit which leads folks to want to "put up" websites faster than they can "create" them.

>>Therefore, the consumer experience is poor and that would reflect negatively on DMOZ<<

It reflects badly on the individual realtors taking shortcuts. We try to notice that a group of sites are the same except for contact details, but we aren't omnisitecheckers. Note that we try very hard to list all real estate AGENCIES out there. That's are where I'd start anyhow, not with individual people saying they can sell you some real estate.

I should mention:

Our guidelines have had to change in response to the kind of template-spamming we've seen, so you may well see many non-compliant listings that were added before the recent assault.

Frank - I gather you're the same Frank Dickens that's Arizona's Rep on the 2003 NAR Board of Directors.

In a few minutes you've encapsulated the bulk of God-knows-how-long a discussion that's been in progress... and it IS a subject that must be addressed one way or the other. Your experience with the questions you've had to deal with would be valuable IMO. Good luck with that application.

[ODP would get the added benefit of replacing me as one of the resident real estate know-it-alls... a move that would no doubt generate nationwide applause. Quick, somebody go check out this guy's app! ]

It reflects badly on the individual realtors taking shortcuts. We try to notice that a group of sites are the same except for contact details, but we aren't omnisitecheckers. Note that we try very hard to list all real estate AGENCIES out there. That's are where I'd start anyhow, not with individual people saying they can sell you some real estate.

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kctipton,

Yes it does reflect poorly on the realtor but it reflects worse upon the web company. They do not inform realtors of the templating system and even if they do, well, most realtors are not technically advanced so they do not understand the possible consequences of their actions.

Realtors are not web designers. They simply want to purchase a website and with most template companies offering realtor website for $1,000 and ready to go in 7-10 days, realtors hop on it. For realtors time is everything, so web companies provide a cost-effect and efficient manner to get online. Unfortunately though, half of the sites out there are duplicated as a result.

Rob,

I can definitely understand the dilemma and keeping in mind that most non-realtors genuinely do not understand how the industry works, it is easy to see this discussion going on for years.

I very much would love to be an editor. I feel my experience can add a lot of value to DMOZ. Unfortunately, I am currently in the phase of trying to send a reply confirmation my application request - but I keep getting bounces. I will persist, however, as this is something I really would enjoy doing during some of my spare time.

Frank,

Try sending it to apply@dmoz.org - should work now. If not, please tell us...

Thanks Tusip, I just replied to the email address you specified.

FYI: Unfortunately, due to the ongoing upgrades, there is still a moratorium on accepting editor applications.

My reply to editors@dmoz.org finally went through. I would assume it is now in queue and I hope to come on board soon.

Thank you everyone for your insight and assistance.

It is probably in the queue but Meta editors have no access to the queue to review those applications until some other work is first carried out on the servers.

Hang on in there.