Same site - three listings?

Same site - three listings - different pages?

Hello there!

I hope I am not asking the same old tired question, but here goes:

I have a site which is currently listed in its proper category of the DMOZ for my travel related business.

Over the past several years (since the site was originally listed), I have expanded the site to include a 47 page (and growing) photo directory and a 16 page map selection for the country where my business is located.

The photo directory is a collection of photo pages with between 4 to 21 photos of specific areas in the country as well as photos and information regarding major events. Most pages average about 10 or 11 photos.

The map section contains hand drawn maps of each (major) island within the country as well as a few detail maps of specific areas which are popular tourist destinations.

These photo pages and map pages have taken years to produce and a great deal of effort on my part. Nothing else like it exists on the internet.

My business is about yacht charter holidays. The photo directory and the map directory are both content rich, info pages about the country itself.

I have two questions:

1) Is it possible to submit the two main (sub directory) pages to an appropriate category, independant of and in addition to my travel related "business" listing?

2) Should I do this, and would my original business listing be affected in any way?

Your advice is greatly appreciated!

The general rule is submit the root URL once to one category unless an editor says you can do otherwise. Without further information, like the URLs and the proposed categories, it would be impossible for anyone to say whether we would consider treating the photo and map sections as listable independently. It is possible I suppose but unlikely unless the site is truly exceptional.

Many thanks for your response oneeye.

The site is http://www.bareboatsbvi.com which is properly listed here:
http://www.dmoz.com/Recreation/Trav...aribbean/British_Virgin_Islands/Fleet_Agents/

The pages I was thinking of submitting are:

http://www.bareboatsbvi.com/map_bvi.html
for this catagory:
http://www.dmoz.com/Regional/Caribbean/British_Virgin_Islands/Maps_and_Views/

and

http://www.bareboatsbvi.com/british_virgin_islands.html
for this category
http://www.dmoz.com/Regional/Caribbean/British_Virgin_Islands/Travel_and_Tourism/Travel_Guides/

Thanks for taking the time to respond.

Kind regards,
Liane

I would rather you submitted the root of the site to http://www.dmoz.com/Regional/Caribbean/British_Virgin_Islands/Recreation_and_Sports/Boating/ and in your description mention the maps and photos. It is then up to the local editor whether to deeplink the maps and photos separately. That way you stay within the guidelines. Seems odd - where I edit most I always list the charters in the Regional category but the BVI seem to do things slightly different. Try it and see, can't do any harm.

p.s. when you submit cut and paste the url for this thread into the description field at the end - the editor can then look here if they want.

Hmmm ... I had never seen that category before. Its interesting that both Conch Charters and Royal Oversees Yachting are listed in both the category my site is in and the one you suggested.

I think I will just leave things alone. I like the category I am in and the description which already exists for my site. I don't want to mess with success! By mentioning the maps and the BVI travel directory stuff, it could very well detract from the "business" side of the site and that is the last thing I want.

But many thanks oneeye, you provided the answers I needed and that's great!

Personally, I don't understand why some people say its difficult to deal with the DMOZ project. This was my first inquiry (great forum by the way) and I got a straight forward answer which addressed my questions in one day!

When I first submitted my site, getting any help or advice was impossible. This forum is a wonderful idea!

You are permitted (if it fits) a listing in the Regional branch and one in a topical branch like Recreation. Submitting to the Regional one should not have an effect on the existing listing. That is why you see two sites already listed in both.

The editor has 3 choices - to accept the second Regional listing, to deny it because it is listed in Recreation, to do either and select individual portions of the site for separate listing.

I don't understand why some people say its difficult to deal with the DMOZ project

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We sometimes bite back when bitten, either here or in actions the submitter has taken that we can see, they know about, but everyone else is oblivious to. But ask a straight question and we hope to give a straight answer.

Well now I have a dilemma! If I were to submit my site to the second category you suggested ... mentioning the maps and bvi directory pages, would I be running the risk of having my site moved out of the category its already in and have the description changed ... or do I just leave things as is?

The only thing which has permitted me the time and funds to do the directory and the map pages is the income from the business side of my site. I have done all the info pages as a service to my customers so they can check out where they will go and what they will do while in the BVI.

To be really honest, I am scared to mess with things. I really, really like my listing as is. If resubmitting to another cat and suggesting a new description would in any way change that ... I'd rather leave well enough alone.

If I were to submit to that new category, is it possible the editor might change, delete or move my original listing?

Oneeye, if this were your site, what would you do? Do you think the map and photo directory sections merit there own listings? If not, then resubmitting to another category would be pointless.

If I were to submit to that new category, is it possible the editor might change, delete or move my original listing?

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Absolutely.

Now let's rephrase your original question:

If I were to do absolutely nothing, is it possible the editor might change, delete or move my original listing?

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Absolutely.


Sites get added and removed every day. This is why we emphasize that are not a listing service for webmaster. Just as we seek to add great quality websites to the directory, we also remove sites that don't meet our present standards.

In other threads we have repeatedly told posters: Don't strive to have a site that is better than the worst -- that is a lose-lose proposition. Instead, strive to have a site that is better than the best.

Remember, too, that we list sites: not pages/products.

Right then ... I'll leave well enough alone! Thanks for your responses.

BTW, I am not trying to blow my own horn, but I do think my site offers much more quality and up to date information about the British Virgin Islands than any other site on the internet.

I admit that my photos and maps are far from professional, but they aren't bad either.

When I list a site, I mention any extras on the site when finalising the description. Something like "Yacht charter services. Includes vessel information, rates, itineraries, maps, and photos of the islands."

If I were to review your site, depending on what is actually on the site, I would write something similar. If I noticed it was also in Recreation then I might update that description at the same time. But I might do that anyway without a new submission. In fact, I think it very likely the description will change sometime soon as it was written in a style that would, today, be contrary to our guidelines. The whole category actually needs a thorough updating to current standards.

would I be running the risk of having my site moved out of the category its already in

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Yes, that is always a possibility whether you put in a new submission in Regional or not. But it is highly unlikely - an editor would have to have very good reason to do that and I can't see one from my cursory glance - I assume it isn't a mirror or anything else we ban. But again it could happen any time. The most likely time is when a branch re-organises and decides that all listings will henceforth be only in Regional, or only in Recreation. As far as BVI is concerned that hasn't happened yet. If it does then all listings will be affected in any case.

I have done all the info pages as a service to my customers so they can check out where they will go and what they will do while in the BVI.

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That is the sort of business site we love. It is the extras that make the site unique and something we encourage not discourage! So I would say mention the extras always. The site as a whole is always listed where its main focus is, in this case the one that fits the business not the extras. So there is no chance the whole listing would be moved to the Maps category if that is what you are concerned about.

Whilst spectregunner is spot on that we list sites not pages, there are often times when a set of pages within a site is considered valuable enough to get an independent listing. You will see that we list many sets of pages from within Lonely Planet for example. Submitters can't submit them, but editors can choose to list them. The maps page was once listed independently as it happens.

my photos and maps are far from professional

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Don't do yourself down. No-one else has those photos and maps, they are unique, and to us that is what is important. And to web surfers too who may see things there they can't get on a billion other sites.

This is a big culture shock really - we normally spend time convincing people not to submit, not the other way around! Honestly, do it. The worst that can happen is that the second listing is denied and nothing changes - the existing listing can be updated (likely) or moved (unlikely) at any time in any case.

Happy sailing!

"In fact, I think it very likely the description will change sometime soon as it was written in a style that would, today, be contrary to our guidelines. The whole category actually needs a thorough updating to current standards."

That's a shame, :sad: because the description "as it is" is very accurate and assists surfers looking for what I sell to find my site. There are certain keywords which are critical to finding my site. For instance, the word "bareboat" is extremely important. Someone looking for a bareboat charter would never be interested in a crewed yacht!

"I assume it isn't a mirror or anything else we ban."

No. 99.99% of the site is completely original. (I have a few photos from others which are credited properly) but I wrote every word, I drew every map and yacht layout myself and I took 99.99% of the photos myself. It has taken me 6 years to build what I have so far. There are still another 30 or 40 photo directory pages to come, (and maybe another year to complete) ...but it all takes time and money to travel around the islands to get it done.

After the photo directory is done, I plan to add another whole new section (perhaps another 40 to 50 pages) which has also never been done before, but I am guessing that project will take at least two years to complete. Its a major undertaking.

"So there is no chance the whole listing would be moved to the Maps category if that is what you are concerned about."

That is exactly what I was worried about. Though I was thinking it may get moved to a "directory" category ... and that would be the kiss of death to my business.

"This is a big culture shock really - we normally spend time convincing people not to submit, not the other way around! Honestly, do it."

That's kind of you. OK I will do it ... with fingers crossed!

One last question:
When I submit to the category you suggested, should I mention my other listing or not?

Thanks again for all your helpful advice everyone!

should I mention my other listing or not?

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There's no need. The reviewing editor will see that information anyway.

You've had some good guidance - go with it .

Many thanks to all again, submission has been sent!

Kind regards,
Liane

There are certain keywords which are critical to finding my site. For instance, the word "bareboat" is extremely important.

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Editors don't like the term "keywords" - we specifically say descriptions must not be keyword stuffed. Of course your site itself should have a sprinkling for search engine use. But if I can explain it from our angle - in a category with bareboat in the category title we wouldn't repeat it on a site description - it is superfluous since all sites in the category should be bareboat and anyone drilling down in the directory will have picked it deliberately for that reason. Where a category contains bareboat and crewed sites then we may well include it to distinguish one type from another for the benefit of directory users. In this case bareboat is a legitimate descriptive term though the final decision, as ever, is for the reviewing editor whoever that might be.

The description currently says "magnificent British Virgin Islands." - magnificent is subjective editorialising and British Virgin Islands is repeating the category title unnecessarily. And it doesn't actually say what is on the site, only what it is about. So those bits will have to go sometime!

Thanks for the clarification oneeye. I appreciate that the ODP isn't interested in keyword stuffing, however, none of the categories available to my area (British Virgin Islands) specifically say "bareboat".

In fact, in all instances, the categories within the ODP have crewed yachts (independant owners), crewed yacht brokers, clearing houses, bareboat companies and bareboat brokers all mixed in together, so it is very difficult to distinguish what is what ... from a users point of view.

Having said that, I am lucky that the name of my company includes the specific word I used as a "for instance" in my explanation above.

You guys have been wonderful ... cheers!
Liane

Liane - if you can tell bareboat from crewed have a think about applying to be an editor - as far as I can see the BVI category could do with a local to look after it and doesn't look like it would take too much of a commitment - half an hour a month maybe. All you have to do is learn how to list a site and I gave an example earlier in this thread. Just a thought!