Seriously, why does it take so long?

vich

Member
Joined
Dec 31, 2003
Messages
44
I submitted a site for inclusion in the directory in early December 2003. Here we are 9 1/2 months later and I'm still not listed.

It's a valid site with a couple of hundred pages of non-spam, non-affiliate linking content... Google PR5, Alexa ranking top 100,000.

I followed the rules here and checked once a month, until it was changed to every 6 months. I'm not including my site info here because it's only been 3 months since my last inquiry, which was 6 months after submission.

This is not a troll, just a serious question.

Thanks,

Vic
 

dogbows

Member
Joined
Apr 8, 2004
Messages
2,446
This is a serious answer. The directory is human edited by volunteers who edit when and where they decide to edit within their permissions areas. No site is guaranteed a listing or to be reviewed in any given time frame. Some sites have been known to be listed within minutes, some within months, some within years, and some never. Some areas of the directory receive a lot more spam than others. You could be the one and only site in a pool of 600 submissions that is not spam. Makes it kinda hard for the editor to find you.
 

hutcheson

Curlie Meta
Joined
Mar 23, 2002
Messages
19,136
This is not just one question, it is about 200 million different questions.

Why did editor hutcheson not review your site between 9:00 and 9:15 PM, GMT, on August 14, 2003?

-- and the same question for all the other quarter hours and all the other editors since the site was created. (The date the site was submitted is irrelevant.)

But the answer is always the same. The volunteers were doing something else -- making a living, helping family or community, reviewing some other website, building content for some other site. What other answer can there ever be? What other answer is needed?
 

miromulus

Member
Joined
Sep 4, 2004
Messages
570
luggagebase said:
Really. Editors have a life outside the ODP? Get out! :p


I fully agree with you luggagebase :) . Oh sh...., and I just send the application form. Bye, bye life :D
 

vich

Member
Joined
Dec 31, 2003
Messages
44
Dogbows, thanks, I appreciate the reply.

Hutcheson, thanks for the condescending reply. I just assumed it was first in, first out.

Best regards,

Vic
 

hutcheson

Curlie Meta
Joined
Mar 23, 2002
Messages
19,136
Oh, THAT assumption again. I should have thought of that. Herewith an attempted perspective shift.

"First in, first out" doesn't have, and can't have, any meaning to us. Think of it this way: we become interested in a site as soon as it's completed -- NOT at all when it's submitted. After all, a site may be submitted before it's completed, or afterwards, or never! (And sites that are NEVER submitted are as precious to us as sites that have been submitted a thousand times ... this week.) So submittal date logically has nothing to do with anything.

All that matters, all that can matter, to us is that the site is up and functioning. Of course, we can't do anything about it until we find out about it. And that date is almost (but not quite) as irrelevant as submittal date -- at least we can't find out about the site before it exists!

So we don't worry about ANY dates. A site is up RAT NOW (and eligible for listing), or it's not (and it's not).

Now, all that is true and obvious to any experienced editor. It is also obvious to any editor (experienced or not) that there are many good reasons to review sites out of the submittal-date-based order. (That is, it is significantly WORSE to use that order than it would be to use some completely random order.)

In addition, note that there isn't a single queue; each category has its own queue. Each queue has its own set of editors, with their own personal priorities between queues. And an editor in one category may be able to do nothing more than move a site to another category queue, to start waiting again (on a different set of editors). FIFO couldn't have meaning in such a context even if we wanted it to.

And finally, note that our freedom to handle sites in any order is an extremely powerful weapon against the spammers who provide most of our site submittals. If for no other reason, by now we would probably have been forced to introduce some form of indeterminacy to foil systematic probing attacks by wannabe-very-high-volume-automated-spammers.

Which comes around to the other answer. Your submittal is waiting because most of editors' time is wasted by spam submittals. Were it not for those, with our current rate of volunteerism, we'd have far more than adequate manpower to handle all legitimate submittals.
 

vich

Member
Joined
Dec 31, 2003
Messages
44
Hutch,

Thanks for the clarification. :)

Someone should come up with one of those "type in the characters in this image" fields or a a confirm before posting button for submissions. Either of both of these would probably cut down on spam.

Thanks,

Vic
 

bobrat

Member
Joined
Apr 15, 2003
Messages
11,061
Most of the spam I see is from manual submissions from people who don't read the submission guidelines. I doubt that "type in the characters in this image" would make any difference.
 

hutcheson

Curlie Meta
Joined
Mar 23, 2002
Messages
19,136
Our current procedures -- SPECIFICALLY INCLUDING the "indeterminable and interminable wait" adequately handle that problem. Without the I&IW, things could be much worse.
 

searchrank

Member
Joined
Mar 20, 2003
Messages
44
It really depends on the editor who is over the category you submit to. I have seen some of the sites I submit listed within a month which is absolutely awesome. i have other sites that have been in que for over two years now.

My attitude is that DMOZ is a free volunteer directory. I submit a site and then I move on. If it gets listed, great but if not, I have no reason to complain.
 

shadow575

kEditall/kCatmv
Curlie Meta
Joined
Jul 26, 2004
Messages
2,485
searchrank said:
It really depends on the editor who is over the category you submit to. I have seen some of the sites I submit listed within a month which is absolutely awesome. i have other sites that have been in que for over two years now.

Actually it depends on the category. As mentioned many times in these forums large spammy categories take longer to wade through than smaller categories and many editors would have permissions in the category in question anyway. So you would have no way of knowing which editor actually edited sites at a given time to validate (although its the thought that counts-thank you) a named category editor as being better than another.

My attitude is that DMOZ is a free volunteer directory. I submit a site and then I move on. If it gets listed, great but if not, I have no reason to complain.

Thats it! You have got it. You can keep checking back (within the guidelines-specified time frames) for a status update, but there really isn't anything else you can do. Becoming frustrated, complaining or worse yet resubmitting over and over (which is what happens quite often) causing an even large spam pool to wade through doesn't change this.

Just my :2cents:
 

jjwill

Member
Joined
Aug 11, 2004
Messages
422
bobrat said:
Most of the spam I see is from manual submissions from people who don't read the submission guidelines. I doubt that "type in the characters in this image" would make any difference.

How about a pop-up (I know how much everyone loves pop-ups) or RED BOLD STATEMENT that reads
"Are you sure you read all the guidelines before suggesting this site, really?" :D
or
"Please verify that you have read the guidelines thoroughly before submitting this site. Failure to do so most likely will result in the exclusion of the site suggested."

when they hit the submit button they have to check the box on a separate page.

Also, have the site verify they even went to the http://dmoz.org/add.html page before they are allowed to submit.

Even making “Failure to understand and follow these policies generally will result in the rejection of a submission.” In line 1 of the submittal page BOLD RED would help some.

OK, now you can shoot down my ideas that have probably been explored 2-3 hundred times before. :)
 

spectregunner

Member
Joined
Jan 23, 2003
Messages
8,768
My attitude is that DMOZ is a free volunteer directory. I submit a site and then I move on. If it gets listed, great but if not, I have no reason to complain.

Bingo!

If we had a prize drawer, I pick out one of the best ones for you, because this precisely articulates the best possible attitude.

Thank you!
 

jjwill

Member
Joined
Aug 11, 2004
Messages
422
shadow575 said:
Becoming frustrated, complaining or worse yet resubmitting over and over (which is what happens quite often) causing an even large spam pool to wade through doesn't change this.

Ya, like an idiot, I opted for door #3 myself. I wish there was some way of getting the submitters attention about this problem. Even in these forums I constantly see webmasters admitting to "resubmitting" thinking " It's been a month and I haven't been listed yet, ODP must have not gotten it. I guess I should resubmit the site again, again, again..." :(

Even simple small changes make sense even if it reduces spam only by 1. :2cents:

jwilaby said:
Ah-ha, I see.

Please excuse all the questions but I am still learning.

If my submission has been received and is awaiting review, what is the purpose of resubmitting? I see so many people on this forum who have resubmitted thier site every month or two. What does this accomplish?
 

yogenmaniyar

Member
Joined
Sep 25, 2004
Messages
26
Delay in listing

I reckon DMOZ is free and managed by volunteers (which is their main problem)

Just a small suggestion. Dmoz should start charging 10 $ for every business listing and start paying their editors and work proffesionaly.

This would expedite the whole process and stave off other directories charging 300-400$ for quick fix listing in a week.
 

jtaylorj

kEditall/kCatmv
Curlie Meta
Joined
Apr 15, 2004
Messages
22
Payments would go against our social contract. And I guarantee that most (if not all) volunteer editors will leave the ODP if such a plan were ever executed. There are plenty of pay-for-inclusion directories with a different "business" model--I'm sure they will happily list every site submitted if the price is right.
 

hutcheson

Curlie Meta
Joined
Mar 23, 2002
Messages
19,136
Yogen, there are many many sites that will take your money to give you a listing. Because there are so many, we feel no need to compete in that crowded business. If that is what you want, we will not be offended if you go to them. "Your business model is no concern of ours." (In the words of a long-standing ODP editor's proverb.)

There are other sites, other approaches, other missions. (I participate in some of them myself.) But at the ODP, I focus on what is unique about its mission and approach -- which, for that matter, is what galvanized the community that made the ODP the most comprehensive web directory.

If you want another mission, you'd need another community -- you couldn't just subvert THIS website and expect the community to follow along like sheep.

And, so long as that is true, you might as well start another website, around which you can build your community.
 
This site has been archived and is no longer accepting new content.
Top