Shopping Carts

Hi,

I'm sure this may have been covered before but I could not find it.

We have a site which sells fire extinguishers. It has an online shopping cart.

We have been told that because the site has a shopping cart, it cannot be accepted into the "Business" categories but must be submitted to "Shopping/Home&Garden" or some such.

The main customers to the site are businesses. Average order values are around $375 - not your average home user! We have also received orders from BlueChip companies of around$15K.

Surely the fact that the site has a shopping cart should not exclude it from the "Business" categories. Do businesses not buy online?

Any guidance apprecated.

Have you read the category descriptions for Shopping and for Business? You could just be fighting how we classify sites with your own idea of how things should be.

"Note: If the purpose of the site is to serve as a Shopping destination for consumers (or consumers and businesses), the site should be listed in the Shopping branch," is found in the Business category description. Are you saying you are exclusively for businesses?

Thanks for the quick reply.

Point taken. We do not sell exclusively to businesses although this is our main aim.

However which category would a business be most likely to search in if they were looking to buy fire extinguishers?

Business: Industrial Goods and Services: Industrial Supply: Safety Equipment Supplies: Fire Protection

Regional: Europe: United Kingdom: Business and Economy: Industries: Industrial Supply: Safety Equipment

Business: Business Services: Security: Products and Equipment: Fire Fighting Equipment

Or
Shopping: Home and Garden: Emergency Supplies

The above catagories are returned for a search on "fire extinguishers"

I could not find another suitable category under shopping where I feel the site would be most suited.

Your site will probably wind up in Shopping/Home_and_Garden/Emergency_Supplies/Fire/.

That's what I feared.

How many businesses looking to buy our products are likely to look in "Home and Garden" section.

Ironically, I suppose if I remove the shopping cart section, the site would then probably be accepted into a Business category as it carries lots of useful information for businesses.

Thanks anyway for your guidance.

You could always try to be convincing that the extinguishers are NOT for the average homeowner. I have seen some in college which I wouldn't install in my home...

Thanks, but please could you clarify. Do you mean try to be convincing to the category editor or just make it clear to visitors?

The site contains around 30 different extinguishers. Out of these probably 1 extinguisher is suitable for home use.

The first page of the site lists - Marine Fire Extinguishers, Specialist Powder Extinguishers, Wet Chemical Extinguishers, Wheeled Extinguishers, Fire Extinguisher Points and Stands, Fire Extinguisher Containers and Cabinets - none of which would be used in a home.

Would the person who bought the fire extinguishers you saw in your college be likely to look in a "Shopping - Home & Garden" Section of the directory?

I appreciate I may be "just be fighting how we classify sites with your own idea of how things should be." but surely just because a predominatly B2B site gives the ability to order online it should not be forced to appear in a patently wrong category - "Home & Garden"

We'd probably be able to speak more intelligently to your questions if you provided us with the url of the site.

Sorry - The URL in question is: -
MFS Fire Extinguishers

I was trying to keep it "general" in this section of the forum as I have already been told in the "Site Submission Status" that the site belongs in the "Home & Garden" section.

I am trying to make the point that this site is a B2B and I feel it does not really belong in a "Home & Garden" category.

The text on the page http://www.mfs-fire-extinguishers.co.uk/fire-extinguisher-numbers.htm , and other text on the site does seem to indicate that the target markets are businesses, so it's reasonable to be in a business category.

However, note http://marinefiresafety.co.uk which seems to have the same initials as your company and is in ODP, and www.marsden-fire-safety.co.uk which is another URL for your company, and is already in ODP.

The target markets are businesses. This is why we submitted to a business category and do not feel that because the site has online ordering facilities that it, and perhaps other in the same situation, should be placed in Shopping/Home & Gardens.

I can provide copies of order from major UK companies including Dunlop, BNFL plc, Williams F1 and many others.

"Marine Fire Safety" is absolutely nothing to do with our business.

Our business is a genuine business registered with the British Names register as MFS Fire Extinguishers. This can be verified by perfoming a search of the National Business Register at:- http://www.anewbusiness.co.uk/business_names/index.htm

The proprietor of Marsden Fire Safety is a partner in MFS Fire Extinguishers, They offer Fire Safety Consultancy and training, we offer Fire Extinguishers and related products. They are 2 seperate lawful businesses.

Does this preclude the site?

Now that I can check the register of UK companies, I've taken a look.

There is no company registered under the name 'MFS Fire Extinguishers'. The same goes for 'Marsden Fire Safety'. Both of these names are trading names. They are not two seperate lawful businesses, they are two trading aspects of a single entity. Whether that entity is the person that owns both sites, or is a legal company, I am not able to determine.

Thanks for taking the time to check this out but I'm afraid you are wrong.

In the UK there are several legal structures that can be used to run a business, like limited companies, sole traders and partnerships.

More info can be found on a UK government site here

Both companies are partnerships, not limited companies and as such will not be registered with Companies House as only limited companies are listed there.

Your statement "They are not two seperate lawful businesses, they are two trading aspects of a single entity." is wrong.

They are two seperate legal businesses!

Many UK businesses are partnerships rather than limited companies. Large accountants & solicitors are very often partnerships and as such will not be found in a search of Companies House. This does mean that they are not legal businesses.

A partnership is a legal business. Both businesses are partnerships. Both businesses have different partners. They happen to share one partner. They have different VAT numbers, different registered offices etc.

Now that this point is hopefully cleared, could we please address the main issue.

Does a business that sells fire extinguishers, mainly to other businesses, really belong in the Shopping/ Home & Gardens category?

Not all ODP editors live in the USA. Some of them are based in Britain, and at least one of them runs a business as a sole trader alongside another business as a limited company. That editor is fully conversant with UK business structures. He is also fully capable of doing some investigating to find out the exact structure behind the two 'businesses' involved here.

My statement that "they are not two seperate lawful businesses" was incorrect, I meant 'companies'. Technically they are indeed two seperate businesses, but legally one person is responsible for both of them, and that one person 'owns' both businesses. Since the Marsden Fire Safety site is already listed, we will not be listing the MFS Fire Extinguishers site.

I apologise for the excessive information in the previous post but I feel it is important to show that these 2 businesses are seperate legal entities.

Marsden Fire Safety is a sole trader owned, registered and operated by Mr. Robert Parkin.

MFS Fire Extinguishers is a partnership owned, registered and run by 3 partners, one of whom is Mr.Parkin. I can provide the registration certificate "In accordabce with Section 4 of the Business Names Act 1985" showing this if required.

So I am sorry but your statement "legally one person is responsible for both of them, and that one person 'owns' both businesses" is incorrect.

Marsden Fire Safety offers fire safety consultancy and training services, MFS Fire Extnguishers offers fire extinguishers and related products.

I would hope that as they are 2 separate businesses, and 2 separate sites, one offering services and one selling a product that they would both be acceptable and useful to ODP visitors by virtue of their own merits.

I also appreciate that as editors you have the final say but any help would be much appreciated.

This is getting out of control. The site _might_ get listed where and how you want, and might not. You've pretty successfully made the case that it should be in a Business category (which was the point of this thread). What you say and what we see could be two different things w.r.t. evaluating the website(s) in question. That's just how it is.