Status of http://www.las-vegas-homefinder.com

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VegasWayne

Member
Joined
Oct 16, 2004
Messages
88
Ok..then what is the problem? I know of no problem with my website. My website as I know it meets everyone of your guidelines.

I have read the links you posted and see no problem with my website. Unless you are using the excuse that it doesnt validate. I know no matter what I say it isnt going to matter..the sad part about it is most of you talk about including good websites. Well maybe I should send to you the comments from the consumers that have sent me responses about my website..oh but thats right they are not ODP editors JUST consumers so it doesnt matter.


I do have a question...what is going to happen to ODP when Microsoft takes over as the number 1 search engine in 2005 and dmoz is no longer important for a listing, when google falls by the weigh side.

This is the only human edited directory that my website has not been included into. It is ok though lol I submitted the website in Nov of 2003 and no response..I resubmitted this year and since I hadnt seen it in the directory thought I would come ask. We only have about 4 to 5 months for Microsoft to launch the new SE and then googles days become numbered.

So my listing in dmoz isnt important..please feel free to remove it from the list..lol I will never know why anyone should ever even try. I wouldnt be surprised if my competitor was running the cat...ODP has always been bias and always will be.

Please dont say you arent because I can show you several real estate sites within ODP that dont meet those guidelines you just so kindly pointed out to me.
 
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VegasWayne

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Oct 16, 2004
Messages
88
gimmster said:
Please do.
:tree:
Click to expand...

This group of websites are listed http://dmoz.org/Regional/North_Amer...s_and_Economy/Real_Estate/Residential/Agents/

www.greatlasvegashomes.com and www.lasvegasrealtor.info and http://www.greathendersonhomes.com/ all have the same or very similar content but was included into the ODP

http://dmoz.org/guidelines/include.html#include Is the site's content/information identical to other sites? - A site should not mirror content available on other sites.

Illegal Sites

Sites with unlawful content should not be listed in the directory, particularly those intent and substantially focused on making available and distributing illegal materials. Examples of content that is illegal in most jurisdictions include child pornography; material that infringes on intellectual property rights; material that advocates, solicits or abets illegal activity (such as fraud or violence) in specific instances; and material that is libelous. Factual and how-to information is generally NOT abetting illegal conduct unless its intent is to facilitate the immediate commission of a crime in a specific situation.

www.lasvegasrealtor.info is a violation of trademark infrigement of the national assocaition of realtors.

Is there any information about the agent on the site?
This could mean the agent's specialities, professional history, biography, and affiliations that may be of interest to individuals with similar backgrounds and interests looking for real estate services in a specific locale.
Does the agent offer information specific to the services offered?
e.g. This would include areas of specialty such as commercial properties, HUD homes, waterfront property, vacant land, or horse farms. It could also include client specialties such as military families or seniors.
Does the site offer individual information on current and/or past listings?
If the agent is identified as a "buyer's" agent, it is not reasonable to expect to find listings. Instead, things to look for would be the agent's record of past successes or testimonials from previous customers.
Does the site provide information on the community, its schools, or other topics? Check to make sure this information is not found on other sites in the category. (i.e. not template information that is identical on two or more sites in the category)

Every advanced access website doesnt meet this requirment.

This website which is listed in the directory above http://www.las-vegas-homes-and-real-estate.com/ and this one http://www.millionsaver.com/ are both listed in http://dmoz.org/Regional/North_Amer...s_and_Economy/Real_Estate/Residential/Agents/

Both have a lot of identical content and belong to the same company and agents but both are listed in the directory.

These are only a few I could spend hours pointing out several real estate websites that dont meet those guidelines.

There was another www.lvrealty.net and www.realestatebyjacqulyn.com but it looks like those have been removed..but both had 100% identical content.

All I am asking for is to be fair. How you can say my website doesnt deserve to be in ODP is beone me..but you are the editor I am not so my opinion or the consumers that visit my website doesnt count.
 
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VegasWayne

Member
Joined
Oct 16, 2004
Messages
88
Not to try and add fuel to the fire but pertaining to the use of the term Realtor and real estate websites listed in ODP.

Has any of your editors that have listed those websites in ODP verified that those sites that use the term Realtor actually hold the certification of Realtor.

If not then dont you see a problem with Trademark infrigement of those websites being listed in the directory?

The term Realtor is trademark and owned by the National Association of Realtors ( NAR ) and the use of that term without the designation of being a Realtor is a violation of state and federal trademark laws.

This also pertains to your own guidelines- material that infringes on intellectual property rights; material that advocates, solicits or abets illegal activity

I found over 30 times the term Realtor was used in just the description in one Cat. Has it been verified that any of these websites that have the term Realtor in them are designated as Realtors.

If you are uncertain of the use of this term contact Mary Newell at trademark@realtors.org
 
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gimmster

This group of websites are listed ..... all have the same or very similar content but was included into the ODP
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Only one of the sites was ever included. 'Do not include' refers to the duplicate entries, not what is judged to be the original site.
is a violation of trademark infrigement of the national assocaition of realtors.
Click to expand...
We are not the internet police, it is not our responsibility to police trademark abuse, other than when we are specifically advised of the problem via the AOL legal department. This is something that is the responsibility of the NAR to enforce, either via the DMCA or Legal channels.
Every advanced access website doesnt meet this requirment.
Click to expand...
One of the reasons the current RE guidelines were recently rewritten. The basic idea is to ignore all the templated and affiliate content. Usually whats left is not much. However, not every AA site relies on just the template but do include real information supplied by the agent/agency - As far as I know the agent can uppdate their sites, but a lot do/did not. Having a name and address is no longer sufficient content to justify listing yet another site for our users to look at, and find the exact same content as other listed sites.

:tree:
 
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VegasWayne

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Oct 16, 2004
Messages
88
We are not the internet police, it is not our responsibility to police trademark abuse, other than when we are specifically advised of the problem via the AOL legal department. This is something that is the responsibility of the NAR to enforce, either via the DMCA or Legal channels.

Does your legal department not see an issue with the use of the term in the description in ODP or the fact that no editor is verifiying the fact that these people who have this term used on their website is in fact a Realtor? Plus I am not an attorney but what I know of trademark law, I wouldnt believe ODP could use the term anywhere on the directory if they were not licensed to do so by NAR.

This is according to your guidelines not mine.

I understand that but as I said earlier you pointed out guidelines to me that you say I dont meet but yet there are several websites listed in ODP that dont meet your guidelines but somehow get listed.

As I stated I have no idea of anything my website doesnt meet for your guidelines as I understand them. If you would care to point them out to me I would be more then happy to make the changes to meet those. However I am not an editor or a mindreader.

I know that maybe your next comment will be we dont have time to tell ever website that submits what they are doing wrong...well how many good websites are you losing if people dont really understand what you would like to see or the rules keep changing with ever submission and response to a submission.

If you are going to stick by your rules then do so 100% dont just stick by them when it fits the moment.
 
V

VegasWayne

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Oct 16, 2004
Messages
88
miromulus said:
Please use the abuse forum

http://resource-zone.com/forum/index.php?showforum=12
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Thank you for the suggestion but I really do not have the time to weed through all the links in the real estate sections of ODP to do an editors job for them. If I wanted to do that I would apply to become an editor.

I know that some of my statements seem harsh but I have watched this directory for over 2 years now and seen how this directory has become nothing but a political tool for some of those that volunteer here.

With power should come humility..I havent seen much of that here. To be quite honest I have seen just the opposite.

This is a serious question and please take it as such. Why do most of the editors believe that some of the people that submit here are trying to be so nice to you all? Could it have anything to do with the power that the editors hold over these poor souls.

I for one dont care what kind of power the editors have. No disrespect but most of you put on your pants the same way I do everyday. All I ask is treat all submissions the same way and be fair.

I know that everyone here volunteers but just because you volunteer doesnt mean you shouldnt have the time to help those that ask for it. If you dont feel this is justified then quit.

I have real estate clients that I have to take out and spend hours at a time with and they may never buy or sell anything...so in reality I am a volunteer but I do my job to the best of my abilitiy and dont say well since you arent buying or selling anything I cant help you or if I did that with you I would have a thousand other people ask me to do the samething.

Maybe I dont really understand the presures you all have but I have read a lot of post on this forum and it seems people are asking why or what to do and there doesnt seem to be many that are willing to take the time and help.

We are not all internet experts as most of you editors are so what may seem simple to you isnt to most of us. I am sure that some of the things that I do on a daily bases within real estate seem very simple to me but would cause most of you to take a step back and maybe ask for help. This is really what most of us that are asking questions to you the editors and not getting any true responses feel like.

When we dont get a streight response or a response that doesnt make sense to us we get frustrated and lash out, it is only human nature.
 
G

gimmster

Editors are not involved in legal matters in any way, other than being reactive when advised by the legal department. We dont talk to them.
Realtor might be a trademark in the US, but not elsewhere in the world, and realtor is a valid word in it's own right. Capitalising it does not always make it a trademark.

The current guidelines are exactly that, current. Sites that are already listed may be removed on re-review if they do not meet the current guidelines, but we do not automatically review sites everytime the rules change. Sites listed in 1999 had a different set of guidelines to those in 2002, which in turn were not the same as the current ones.

The guidelines have had to evolve to deal with deceptive submissions, and lack of unique content. All new suggestions are reviewed against what ever guidelines are current, not against the poorest site currently listed. If listing a site adds useful and unique information to a category, which in turn provides new (previously unseen) information to the directory user (we don't care about search engine users), it will most likely be listed. I say most likely because it is possible to build a site in a way that the unique content is not easy to locate.

In the end unique content is the key.
:tree:
 
V

VegasWayne

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Joined
Oct 16, 2004
Messages
88
gimmster said:
Editors are not involved in legal matters in any way, other than being reactive when advised by the legal department. We dont talk to them
Realtor might be a trademark in the US, but not elewhere in the world, and realtor is a valid word in it's own right. Capitalising it does not always make it a trademark.

The current guidelines are exactly that, current. Sites that are already listed may be removed on re-review if they do not meet the current guidelines, but we do not automatically review sites everytime the rules change. Sites listed in 1999 had a different set of guidelines to those in 2002, which in turn were not the same as the current ones.

The guidelines have had to evolve to deal with deceptive submissions, and lack of unique content. All new suggestions are reviewed against what ever guidelines are current, not against the poorest site currently listed. If listing a site adds useful and unique information to a category, which in turn provides new (previously unseen) information to the directory user (we don't care about search engine users), it will most likely be listed. I say most likely because it is possible to build a site in a way that the unique content is not easy to locate.

In the end unique content is the key.
:tree:
Click to expand...

To offer info on a statement you made. The term Realtor is trademark internationally.

(we don't care about search engine users) Correct me if I am worng but I have seen several post from metas and editors stating that the directory is built for the user not the website owners. So if you dont care about the search engine user then isnt that a misstatement?

See this is one problem with real estate Cat. You can only describe something in so many ways. Take as an example with some of the websites listed in ODP for Las vegas real estate. Look at how almost all the websites describe Lake Las Vegas. Most of the websites describe this development similar not duplicate but similar. This is because this development has only so many amenities to discuss and price ranges to relay to the consumer.

I know for a fact that my website is no where near duplicate of any other website. I worte all the content myself and didnt use anyone else's description of any of these developments.

I dont use a template website so my design is unique and so is my navigation system compared to others listed in ODP for Las Vegas real estate section.

I guess what this really boils down to is you said it didnt meet guidelines and I am wondering what part does the website not meet. As I stated earlier I have read the guidelines and cant find anything within my website that doesnt meet your guidelines. So if you could share with me I would be more then happy to make sure it does.
 
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VegasMack

Member
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Sep 9, 2004
Messages
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Las Vegas Real Estate

Please excuse the late intrusion, but out of curiosity, is there a way to find out what specific guidelines were not adhered to on the submission or content of www.las-vegas-homefinder.com ?

Looking at the site and ODP Guidelines I don’t see a problem, but I may have missed it.

It can’t be duplicate content because it is not. Wayne does not have another site listed for Las Vegas Real Estate that I can see. I do not believe the rejection to be due to an improper submission because I initially submitted it on Wayne’s behalf and I was careful to follow ODP Submission Guidelines.

I do understand the policy of not publicly discussing reasons in an open forum for not accepting a site, so if a Meta or Editall could please PM me with an explanation I would be most appreciative and can resubmit the site with any necessary changes.

Thanks,
-Mack
 
bobrat

bobrat

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Joined
Apr 15, 2003
Messages
11,061
(we don't care about search engine users) Correct me if I am worng but I have seen several post from metas and editors stating that the directory is built for the user not the website owners. So if you dont care about the search engine user then isnt that a misstatement?
Click to expand...

To clarify:

If you are asking about Google or other search engines, then we consider that off topic, we are talking about users of ODP directly, not the possible effects a listing in ODP may have on search engine results.

Discussions about listings must be kept to ODP guidelines for listing a site. For example, there are many requests made to change descriptions to include keywords, based on some feeling that the change would improve the ranking in Google. And many ask if we can speed up the listing of a site, so that it will be listed in Google faster. That is why we say we don't care about search engines.

In fact, one might conider it ruide to discuss search engines, it is like someone calling you and asking to be invited over to dinner. Not that he wants and likes your dinner conversation, he just wants to meet your guest.
 
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hutcheson

Curlie Meta
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Mar 23, 2002
Messages
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Our perception of the relevant facts and yours cannot be harmonized. In addition, I regard Wayne's rants as tantamount to calling us liars. Under such circumstances, it would be counterproductive for us to give information. I believe the kind of mutual credibility necessary for a genuine exchange of information is simply and totally absent.
 
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VegasMack

Member
Joined
Sep 9, 2004
Messages
20
Las Vegas Real Estate

I may be mistaken, but I do not believe I have given any reason in this forum or any other to question my credibility, and having known you for an extended period of time I certainly do not question yours.

Inasmuch as Wayne is unfamiliar with ODP protocol, I simply offered what I felt would be an alternative to a non-productive open discussion.

As for the facts involved on Wayne’s site and or its submission, if I misrepresented them in anyway please excuse the oversight and explain them either here or by PM.

I am by no means attempting to be confrontational and only look towards an amicable resolution.

Any assistance would be deeply appreciated.

-Mack
 
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VegasWayne

Member
Joined
Oct 16, 2004
Messages
88
hutcheson said:
Our perception of the relevant facts and yours cannot be harmonized. In addition, I regard Wayne's rants as tantamount to calling us liars. Under such circumstances, it would be counterproductive for us to give information. I believe the kind of mutual credibility necessary for a genuine exchange of information is simply and totally absent.
Click to expand...

Its not that I am calling you liars. As I stated in an earlier post, I have read your guideline and from the way I understand them, the website meets your guidelines and have ask if not to enlighten me.

Try to understand I take this as you calling me a liar, since this is my understanding of your guidelines and I am being told it doesnt meet them. The person that submitted my website was at one time an editall for ODP and I would believe that he would understand the guidelines. I also understand guidelines can change but if they have I dont see where.

It is frustrating to me since I have been trying to get into ODP since Nov of 2003 with no action being taken. It is human nature after a while when we all feel we have been ignored to lash out and voice our frustration. When a listing of this type matters so much to the individuals trying to produce an income from their websites to feed their family and pay their bills, it becomes more then just a hobby.

I am sure you understand that most of believe that a listing in ODP presently helps with the serps in google and right now for at least a few more months google is the # 1 search engine...in 2005 that will be a different story and I am sure the editors jobs will become less stressful. Also as I stated earlier this is the only human edited directory that my website has not been included into...so you may be able to understand why I keep asking why it isnt.

Maybe I went about it all wrong but I have seen time and time again people within this forum ask for help to try and understand the reasons why their websites have not been included with no response other then the standard "we cant discuss specific websites"

Not everyone who submits a website to ODP is trying to scam ODP. There are some of us who dont understand the guidelines setforth by ODP and need help in understanding those. What you may deem as simple, we do not.
 
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VegasWayne

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Joined
Oct 16, 2004
Messages
88
I think this kind of sums up my view points and shows that I am not the only person who feels the way I do. Here is a link from Site Pro News that really sums up the frustration of those of us that have tried to get into ODP.

http://www.sitepronews.com/

Please take note of the comment made about websites that seem to meet ODP guidelines but are not included.
 
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