status of: http://www.rickschiller.com

R

rschiller

Being included in: http://dmoz.org/Regional/North_America/United_States/California/Localities/P/Piedmont/Arts_and_Entertainment does not help me in terms of Search Engine Optimization as there are only 3 listings in that section and no one looking for a portrait or professional photographer will look there. Please, will an editor inform me of my submission to:

http://www.dmoz.org/Business/Arts_and_Entertainment/Photography/Photographers/Portrait/North_America/United_States/California/

which, as far as I can determine, is the most appropriate section for my site. I am a professional photography who's primary business is Headshots and portraits. I believe my site and work are presented clearly and cleanly and compare favorabley to other work in that specific section.

If anyone can fill me in as to why it takes so long, I would very much appreciate it.

Thank you

Rick Schiller :(


You're already listed in the first one, and still waiting in the second one. I'd say that you're doing pretty good
 

lachenm

Meta/kMeta
Curlie Admin
Joined
Aug 2, 2002
Messages
1,610
You have received all the information we can give you.

Your site is awaiting review in that category.

Both categories may be appropriate for your site. It is listed in one of them, and will be considered for the other one in addition to the first listing. Many sites qualify for one listing in their place of business and one listing in a topical category about their type of business. In other words, the listing in the Regional/ category is independent of the listing in the Business/ category.

We can't tell you how long it will take, simply because we don't know. It is taking this long because none of our volunteer editors has found the time to review it yet. Volunteer editors are not required to review any particular number of site suggestions, or to review them in any particular order. We wish we had more qualified volunteer editors to help, but the fact is that we don't. If you feel that you would be qualified to edit a category in the ODP, you can always volunteer for a small category -- it might even decrease your wait time, because you'll be helping by sharing the overall workload.

Finally, we don't care at all about search engine optimization, and such discussions fall outside of the scope of these forums. We are building a directory. What search engines do is their business. How you optimize your placement is your business. There are many, many other things you can do besides worrying about an ODP listing -- and there are many more appropriate forums available for discussing these strategies.
 
R

rschiller

Thank you for your concise answer. I am disturbed that reviews are not necesarily first in/first out, if I understand your information correctly. This does seem rather arbitrary.

As I stated previously, an Editor apparently on his own listed me in the Piedmont directory. I do appreciate that listing. Kindly be aware that I never applied for placement there and in fact was unaware of the category. As my previous email indicated, I feel it much more appropriate for my site to be listed in the business section.

Has the Piedmont listing moved me down the list for the business section I initially applied for 9 months ago?

I applied as a volunteer editor Feb. 18th '03 and was rejected. I will be happy to reapply if you feel my application would be more favorabley looked upon at this time. Evidently the photography sections are under- represented, my field of expertise, so perhaps I could make a contribution there?

In terms of SEO, being listed in the proper business section of the directory is not the sole criteria for higher search engine placement; but, it is one criteria that can be helpful. I am clearly not relying soley on that. However, photography as a business is my livelihood and I wish to avail myself of every possiblity to expand my market and make individuals aware of my services offered. This is the beauty and power of the Web. Editors probably cannot and certainly do not address SEO criteria; the, reality is that being listed in the directory is one fairly significant criteria to getting a higher placement in Google. Would I be out of place to suggest that Editors are aware of that? Hence I brought the SEO issue into the discussion.

So I will return to my bi-monthly request for information as to the status of my request to be listed in the proper business section of the Directory. I am encouraged that you also agree my site would be appropriate in the business section I applied for submission to.

Thanks and best

Rick Schiller
 

kokopeli

kEditall/kCatmv
Curlie Meta
Joined
Jul 28, 2002
Messages
4,256
Has the Piedmont listing moved me down the list for the business section I initially applied for 9 months ago?
They are independent of one another.
Thank you for your concise answer. I am disturbed that reviews are not necesarily first in/first out, if I understand your information correctly. This does seem rather arbitrary.
Editors are volunteer, and as such they are not required to review sites in a specific order. That said, many (I am one) do tend to review in the order submitted. Part of the joy of being an editor is that we can do as little or as much as time permits. For instance, if an editor wants to review a site that was submitted in accordance to guidelines (correct title, appropriate description), instead of a different submission that has a 500 key word description submitted it is up to them. That is a drastic example, but there are so many variables that it would be unfair to set strict "rules" as to how we use our time. One thing we are required to do is to treat the submission fairly once it is reviewed. It is also important to understand the purpose is to add sites to the directory for the end user to find of value. The sites waiting are just suggestions for listings, if we accept them and it is good for the submittor--wonderful--but they are just that, suggestions. Listings are free and are never guaranteed.

I applied as a volunteer editor Feb. 18th '03 and was rejected. I will be happy to reapply if you feel my application would be more favorabley looked upon at this time. Evidently the photography sections are under- represented, my field of expertise, so perhaps I could make a contribution there?
I would suggest reading the Becoming an Editor thread for helpful tips before applying :D
 

hutcheson

Curlie Meta
Joined
Mar 23, 2002
Messages
19,136
>I am disturbed that reviews are not necesarily first in/first out, if I understand your information correctly.

You may be still more disturbed by these facts, which have been inherent in the project organization from the beginning:

1) Every editor is explicitly given blanket permission and encouragement to NEVER review any particular site, whether or not it has ever been suggested, if he feels uncomfortable with it for ANY REASON whatever!

2) And every editor is STRONGLY encouraged, in many different ways and whenever he requests a new category, to list sites that have NEVER been suggested!

3) And the editors aren't here to review suggested sites. Editors that only do that, really aren't doing their job! Editors are supposed to be building the directory, in whatever way seems most effective to them.

4) Neither your priorities as a webmaster, or my priorities as a meta-editor, have any weight with any other editor! They are all volunteers, and they choose their own priorities, with only one limitation: "no priority to sites you're associated with."

Some editors feel very strongly that sites should be reviewed in order. Others feel that sites which have been waiting for over a year or so ought to receive special attention. Still others are concerned to build new categories for subjects that didn't exist a month ago -- the ongoing North American power failure, or some new sleazy commercial scam. I personally do what I feel I can do effectively (or what piques my curiosity at the moment), with special attention to a couple of projects that other editors mostly neglect.

The AVERAGE length of time a site waits in the queue is shorter, the more efficiently editors work. So we let editors decide how they can work most efficiently. Think macro-economic model (as is of course most appropriate for a volunteer organization), not micro-economic.
 

hutcheson

Curlie Meta
Joined
Mar 23, 2002
Messages
19,136
Another way of looking at this issue is: for us, the countdown starts when the site is created and fully functional. Every day after THAT that it's not reviewed is, um, short of the ideal. But when the site is SUGGESTED to us, is totally irrelevant! Site SUGGESTION is just there as a way for you to help us cut down on the delay between site CREATION and site REVIEW.

This distinction is very important to us, because of the number of rude stupid pests who submit every URL of every site they are PLANNING to create over the next year, hoping that they'll have done work by the time we get around to reviewing it. This is a violation of the submittal guidelines, and our procedures can result in its review being delayed even longer (or prevented altogether.)

We say, "if your site has been rejected, and you add more content, then submit again." But a new submittal BEFORE it has been rejected is likely to be treated as a duplicate and automatically deleted.
 
R

rschiller

Thank you for your response. I kept my description of my site very brief.

I believe I read the Editor application guidelines carefully and was not given a reason for the rejection.

best

Rick Schiller
 
R

rschiller

My first queries to my site submission were more objective in nature, stating I was 125 in the que, then about 100 behind. This lead me to believe there was an order and I was slowly but surely moving up for review. I am also encouraged by 2 editors who have looked at my site and, in their opinion, it looked like an appropriate site for includion in the photographer's category I had requested submission in. Your information is contrary to my previous information, so I trust you can understand my frustration.

You have now clarified the situation.

thank you

Rick Schiller
 
R

rschiller

My site was up and running and fully functional about 2 years before I applied to be listed in the Directory. I have only applied once for www.rickschiller.com and believe I have followed the rules and guidelines stated for inclusion in the directory.

Rick Schiller
 

spectregunner

Member
Joined
Jan 23, 2003
Messages
8,768
My first queries to my site submission were more objective in nature, stating I was 125 in the que, then about 100 behind. This lead me to believe there was an order and I was slowly but surely moving up for review.

You were absoloutely correct in this assumption, given the information that was presented to you. This is why we had a good number of behind-the-scenes discussions on how best to present information to submitters. We realized that we were leaving a wrong impression and that, in turn, was leading to some serious misunderstandings.

Internally, editors often refer to the groups of suggested URLs as queue, and that conversational shorthand got carried over here. Then we began to get very specific queries from folks such as yourself who said, "Hey, last month I was number 63, where am I now?"

So if you peek at other threads, you'll notice that in the last few months, the editors who check these things make a conscious effort to refer to the unreviewed URL suggestions as "pools" and have tried to avoid giving a specific number, simce that is also quite useless information. Small, medium and large work well, and are relative to the category. For example, in many regional categories, a poll of 15 suggested URLs is downright medium to large, while in much of Shopping it is a miniuscule number.

Bottom line: we are also learning how to communicate better and hope you'll understand and forgive any mistakes we have made or any false impressions that we have left with you.
 
R

rschiller

Spectregunner, In all cander your response is a bit less capricious and a bit more humanistic then some other responses I've gotten . . and I do appreciate that. Unfortuneately, it does further highlight my frustration in getting listed, as the rules seem to be changing. Not one editor who has glanced at my site has said anything negative about it, or that its not within the Directory guidelines. So that has never been the issue. It's now going on 9 or 10 months since my submission and apparently I have followed all the rules; but, no acceptance or rejection in: http://www.dmoz.org/Business/Arts_and_Entertainment/Photography/Photographers/Portrait/North_America/United_States/California/

Rick Schiller
 

kokopeli

kEditall/kCatmv
Curlie Meta
Joined
Jul 28, 2002
Messages
4,256
Unfortuneately, it does further highlight my frustration in getting listed, as the rules seem to be changing. Not one editor who has glanced at my site has said anything negative about it, or that its not within the Directory guidelines. So that has never been the issue. It's now going on 9 or 10 months since my submission and apparently I have followed all the rules; but, no acceptance or rejection
Your site has not been reviewed yet, so there would be no acceptance or rejection. It isn't about following submission rules in this case, and while the updates given previously in regard to your site were accidently misleading, no rules have changed. Unfortuntately, there are thousands and thousands of sites waiting and a limited number of editors. As stated in the guidelines for this forum, posting here won't get your site edited any faster. The reason being, it wouldn't be fair to immediately review one site just because someone posted when there are numerous others also waiting patiently in the same area (and all of the other areas) to be reviewed. Basically, it is up to chance for all of those reasons above. Many editors have access to that area, unfortunately it is now up to when someone has opportunity to review at it. On the bright side, the listing is free if your site is approved. As explained previously and in other posts, submissions are really just site suggestions, editors also add listings they find on their own. The idea is to build up each category with worthwile sites, that is why submissions aren't guaranteed.
 

hutcheson

Curlie Meta
Joined
Mar 23, 2002
Messages
19,136
>Not one editor who has glanced at my site has said anything negative about it...

It is possible that no editor has glanced at the site. If they had, the forum guidelines frown on "site critiques", so we generally try (sometimes unsuccessfully) to say anything one way or the other about an unreviewed site.

So you're reading a lot into what wasn't said. You should focus more on what was said:

The site hasn't been reviewed yet! Many other sites in that category also have not been reviewed. If 6 months is the AVERAGE time to review, then some sites will take longer. This site is likely to take much longer, because historically, "Photography" has been (from a volunteer viewpoint) one of the less interesting topics. We do not know if or when this may change.
 
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