Submission assistance (8 failed submissions over 14 months)

Hi, I am not sure what I am doing wrong and have tried unsuccessfully to submit a site for a long time. Was hoping to get some feedback and guidance to get this progressed.

I am trying to submit a site to the category: dmoz.org/Regional/Oceania/Australia/Business_and_Economy/Legal_Services/

I have tried re-submitting multiple times: 19 Nov 2015, 18 Dec 2015, 8 Feb 2016, 24 May 16, 22 Jun 16, 19 Jul 16, 6 Sep 16 and 1 Feb 17.

The business I work for is not a law firm but provides legal services (terms and conditions drafting) and paralegal services in the marketing compliance area. We also refer legal work to a partner law firm when required.

SITE URL:[URL removed per forum guidelines]

TITLE OF SITE: TPAL (Trade Promotions and Lotteries Pty Ltd)

SITE DESCRIPTION: Provides marketing compliance services: drafting of promotion terms and conditions, competition permit/trade promotion lottery permit applications and government approved electronic random draws.

Any advice or assistance would be appreciated.

You can only suggest a site, not submit it. A volunteer editor will look at the suggestion at some time, although no one can predict when that will be done. Editors for the most part, edit in an area in which they are interested, so it may take days to weeks to months or years before the site is reviewed.
When you suggested the site, the screen would have told you to suggest only one time. You are in danger of being marked as a spammer, if you continue to suggest it over and over again.

DMOZ is always open for new editors, so by all means, should you have some time and interest you are most welcome to apply to become a volunteer, thus aiding the directory to process sites. Impartiality is of course required, so one must be willing to list competitor sites as well as one's own.

Thanks for responding mollybdenum

Would you mid clarifying some things for me - I do not want to be labelled as a spammer. From the reading I have done, there is no response when a site is rejected after a suggestion. I thought the process was to wait up to a couple of months and then try improving or varying the suggestion. If there is anyway to see whether a suggested site is still being considered or has not been reviewed yet or has been rejected for some reason, then I would be grateful. As there does not appear to be, I have re-submitted variations periodically - allowing between many weeks to months to pass between attempts.

After a year I had the same idea as your suggestion and have applied to be an editor twice, both disclosing my association with the site I am suggesting as well as outlining my interest and relevance for the area (web developer for over 15+ years familiar with web standards as well as working in a legal startup for 2+ years). I also submitted sites besides my own.

I think waiting years is a little extreme as the website may have silently been rejected due to poor grammar, wrong category, etc. Hence my re-submissions.

I have exhausted my knowledge and so do not know what else to try. What would be really helpful and constructive for me would be if:
- someone could advise whether my site suggestion is for the appropriate area
- whether the suggestion content seems good enough or how it can be improved
- how I can become an editor (the rejection of my application did not provide any reasons).

Thank you in advance for any assistance/advice.

- someone could advise whether my site suggestion is for the appropriate area
- whether the suggestion content seems good enough or how it can be improved

Unfortunately we can not help with these kind of questions here ( we would be overwhelmed with similar requests if we answered).

- how I can become an editor (the rejection of my application did not provide any reasons).

Generally there would be some generic reasons and one or more of them would apply for the application in question. (If you want I can look into your specific case, if you provide some indication of when you applied and to which category, either here or through PM).

We don't reject sites for poor grammar, and almost never for submitting to the wrong category.

When you suggest your site again, it does overwrite the previous submission, but that may not be a good idea, because then it shows up as having been suggested on the newer date, and some editors review site suggestions in date order.

I don't know the reasons your applications were rejected, but if you applied for the category where you suggested your site, it's not a good place to start, as probably 90% of sites suggested there don't belong there.

Thanks for the reply lisagirl.

Respectfully that response, "it's not a good place to start, as probably 90% of sites suggested there don't belong there", is a little perplexing because assuming I have chosen the right category, then because of previous poor editing, I am prevented form adding an appropriate site or becoming an editor.

I wholeheartedly agree that most of the sites in that category do not belong there (they mostly belong in one of the sub categories) … this has been one of the most frustrating elements as I am submitting a site that I think clearly belongs there yet previous people have been able to get through this vetting process with their inappropriate sites. I have done my research and feel that this is the most appropriate category as we are an Australian based legal services provider (not a law firm). I am open to submitting it to another category but do not think there is one.

The other problem with the submission system is that there is no acknowledgement of a rejection … therefore one needs to wait a reasonable time period before re-applying (varying the wording) because if the site was rejected after say 2 months, then waiting 5 months or a year is not really going to be of any use. DMOZ's editor application system sends rejection notices but the site submission system does not.

There is an acknowledgement for rejection. And it is available even before you suggest a website.
It is in our guidelines
http://www.dmoz.org/docs/en/guidelines/include.html "
Site Selection Criteria"
It describes which kind ow websites we list and which we will not list.
You should not suggest a website we will not list,
If you suggested a website of a kind that we will list than you can assume it won't be rejected.

So either you suggested a website we will not list - why would we tell you that we noticed such an action
or you suggest a website we will list - as we won't reject such a website we can not send a message

There is no "reasonable time period" before suggesting a website again. The only time period is "never".

A website is suggested
- it is either a website we won't list and it is rejected (we will never tell you)
- it is a website we will list and it is listed already - you can see yourself by looking at the category
- if it is a website we will list but it is not listed yet than it must still be waiting review
In all 3 cases there is no valid reason to suggest the website again.

Time between suggestion and review can vary between a few days and several years.

If a website is rejected we do not want it to be suggested again. changing such a website that it becomes listable is almost impossible. Unless you totaly change the type of website is is. In which case it is a totaly different website just using the same url.

pvgool, your statements imply perfect editing and editors. DMOZ admin lisagirl has pointed out that there are errors in the category. They do not provide any mechanism for addressing errors, the fact that websites change over time or a case where someone has made a bad suggestion. Isn't DMOZ's goal good content or is it to exclude valid sites that have made an imperfect suggestion?

My only error seems to be wanting to suggest a valid site to an appropriate category where there does not appear to be active editing, where there are many incorrectly categorised sites listed and which does not seem to welcome a new editor or new content. Surely DMOZ would want this rectified?

I have been patient (over a year) and I have educated myself on DMOZ so am not merely ranting.

I am stuck with what I consider to be a valid site and an inability to become an editor. Your tone seems to be suggesting "go away". Given the amount of time I have spent and your knowledge, can't you point out where I have made an actual error ? Rather than using generalisations, please use specifics and explain to me how I am applying for the wrong category - it is a simple question - seeing that there are so many categories, it should be easy to dismiss my application with facts rather than opinion - shouldn't it ?

I am still hopeful of getting my site listed and maybe becoming an editor in this small category.

Anyone in the public can report issues with sites listed in the directory. At the end of the title there is a flag that can be clicked which leads to a report form, which then can be handled by editors.

There are lots of categories that are suitable for new, beginning editors to start out in. Most people have a hobby or a special interest they care about, that also can be found as a category.

Generally it is hard to get accepted in a highly competitive category that is prone to spam or abuse.

Seems you are confusing two things

For a suggestion of a website we will never send a reply about the status of that suggestion. We will also not look at such a status on request. If we would do such a thing for you we must do it for everybody else alse we thread everybody and every suggestion exactly the same.
We provide guidelines about which sites we will never include. You will be able to understand them as they are very clear.

For editor applications we always send a reply. Sometimes with a specific comment, sometimes only with a list of common mistakes. Understanding and correcting the mistakes you made are part of the application process. An editor will have to perform such tasks all the time. If you are not capable to understand and correct the mistakes in your application than you probably are not the right person to become an editor. [BTW you = general you, not specific you as a person]

Thanks for responding informator and pvgool.

The category I am after does not have spam or abuse, just companies that should be in sub categories and absent editors that have not made any changes since Aug 2016. It has only 24 websites listed but it has sub categories. The two editor rejections I have received have been swift and without any specific comments … just the generic stuff.

All the advice to date has been general and no DMOZ editor or admin has actually stated I am making a suggestion in the wrong category. It would make DMOZ look more credible and would silence me if this was the case ... but it keeps coming back to generalities and a lack of transparency ... I think this is the cause of a lot of unnecessary frustration on these forums. Makes no sense to me. As a developer, I know that it would be trivial to create a system where users can type in a domain name and see if it is still waiting for review or has been rejected - would remove a lot of forum posts and free up quite a few DMOZ metas and admins hours. Similarly rejections for editors and sites could have a list of standard reasons - this would add transparency, make editors more accountable, users more informed and remove frustration.

It basically leaves me in limbo with no clear path on how to get my site listed other than waiting an arbitrary period and trying another category, but I do not think there is a more appropriate one.

Maybe an admin will one day look at my case specifically and as I suspect that if they did, they would not find a good reason for my previous site suggestion rejection. Maybe there is some hidden process of oversight that occurs one day.

An admin has even acknowledged that some of the data in the category is not well categorised - is the editor responsible for this category the same person that is vetting my suggestions and editor applications ?

Re-stating my problem - no edits to my category since mid 2016. No status on my suggestions. Prompt rejection of editor applications. Many forum responses by admins and metas, yet no one can confirm that I have posted in the wrong category - everyone seems to keep telling me general stuff, because for some mysterious reason with all this collective experience, it is too hard to point out my error ... or as I suspect, there is no error. All you need to say is,
"You should have applied to dmoz.org/Regional/Oceania/Australia/???"
That is just one sentence - please do that and you will restore my faith in this mysterious process. Surely that is simpler than all these posts ?

What I am hoping for:
- someone to point out how my site has been suggested to the wrong category
- someone to provide usable input on how to progress my application and/or become an editor for this category

The response I am expecting:
- something non specific or generic
- a statement that nobody is obligated to answer my request (true)
- nothing

As you have already been told, a "generic" rejection letter is a way for a hopeful applicant to process the previous application and use his or her skills to create an improved application. The prospective editor should look at all the possible reasons for rejection that are given in the form letter and then decide how best to improve a future application.

I applied to become an editor because I could not get my site listed. I do not expect hand holding but it would have been nice to get some actionable info. I maintain that I have not made an error.

Originally, this post was primarily to find out why my site has if it is being suggested to the right category.

TPAL is a an Australian national legal service provided by a non law firm so does not fit into any of the sub categories which tend to be under:
dmoz.org/Society/Law/Services/Lawyers_and_Law_Firms/…

So the question is fairly straight forward. Is my site:
TPAL (Trade Promotions and Lotteries)
appropriate for category:
dmoz.org/Regional/Oceania/Australia/Business_and_Economy/Legal_Services/

May someone please help and advise if this is the appropriate category ?

Isn't this the right place to ask for help - a forum called "Suggesting a Site"

Robert Davis said:

Isn't this the right place to ask for help - a forum called "Suggesting a Site"

Click to expand...

Yes it is, but please don't move the goalposts

To answer your question basically means reviewing the site - something we don't do here - thus the perceived reticence...
Assuming that you've already suggested the site to both categories, I'd say that you've covered all eventualities... an editor will eventually review the suggestion, and either move or publish it directly - but we have no idea when.
Suggestions are kept until reviewed.

"I applied to become an editor because I could not get my site listed. "

That is usually not a fruitful approach since we want to attract editors who are interested in listing all others sites, not their own...

informator said:

"I applied to become an editor because I could not get my site listed. "

That is usually not a fruitful approach since we want to attract editors who are interested in listing all others sites, not their own...

Click to expand...

That is a cheap shot … it was not my ONLY reason, but was part of it. In our previous exchanges and in my application I disclosed that I wanted to get my site published, contribute to a category that has obviously been neglected and learn a new skill (DMOZ editing). In my application I did suggest another site.

Elper said:

Yes it is, but please don't move the goalposts

To answer your question basically means reviewing the site - something we don't do here - thus the perceived reticence...
Assuming that you've already suggested the site to both categories, I'd say that you've covered all eventualities... an editor will eventually review the suggestion, and either move or publish it directly - but we have no idea when.
Suggestions are kept until reviewed.

Click to expand...

Thanks, but I guess that brings me back full circle. Unsure whether to wait a few months and re-apply or wait indefinitely. Editors make mistakes an editors change as is evidenced by other incorrectly categorised sites in the category. People making suggestions are not informed when the review has occurred - a flaw in the system. Can't see a logical reason for this.

After all of this, no one has confirmed whether I am in the right category nor have I received any specific feedback on any editor applications. ... but a lot of people have taken the time to write generic messages criticising me or excusing DMOZ's processes. No one has even acknowledged my suggestions for DMOZ improvement.

As someone who has volunteered in other aspects of life, built many websites and been an admin on other forums, it really seems like a closed shop - not wanting contributions/suggestions from outside and not being welcoming of volunteers. It's a shame, I would have made a good editor

Will diarise this for 2019 and check back then to see if things have changed.

OK, since you don't like my response I will no longer waste my time here. Several people have tried to help you and explain but you don't seem to appreciate that.

Once again

informator said:

OK, since you don't like my response I will no longer waste my time here. Several people have tried to help you and explain but you don't seem to appreciate that.

Click to expand...

Many people wrote something, but I question whether any help was actually provided. A fair bit of defensiveness maybe and explanations why people can not help.

Ultimately not a single error was pointed out in any of my suggestions or my editor applications, yet a lot of tut tutting for me having some sort of attitude.

The category contains errors (by an admin's admission ) and no updates since Aug 2016. Here you have someone who is motivated, knowledegeable about the space and patient (14 months before engaging on these forums) ... yet all that you offer is some general statements and thinly veiled swipes at my attitude.

I know from my logs that you and others have visited my site (I can tell form the referrer tags), yet you all seems to say that you can't look at my site. I propose that you have looked, that you can not find an error, so you hide behind statements of saying you can not be expected to look.

Robert Davis said:

yet you all seems to say that you can't look at my site

Click to expand...

No; we can look at your site; apparently we have... What we won't do is review on demand.
Seeing that we agree that we are going in circles here, I'm closing this thread. Please don't start another on this subject.