I submitted our website about 3 months ago. Is it a problem if a resubmit as we are still not listed? Submitted to shopping:crafts:supplies:woodcrafts. I posted this in the wrong section orginally - sorry!
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Clickable link is http://dmoz.org/Shopping/Crafts/Supplies/Woodcraft/
It is waiting in the unreviewed section as of 17/Oct/2002 14:41:34 MDT with under 50 other sites.
http://www.suzisdollhouses.com/ is listed in Shopping: Recreation: Models: Miniatures and Dollhouses. http://www.suziswoodcrafts.com is quite similar and both sites back and forth...it is likely only one will be listed.
It is waiting in the unreviewed section as of 17/Oct/2002 14:41:34 MDT with under 50 other sites.
http://www.suzisdollhouses.com/ is listed in Shopping: Recreation: Models: Miniatures and Dollhouses. http://www.suziswoodcrafts.com is quite similar and both sites back and forth...it is likely only one will be listed.
Is there a process by which I can question the statement that "the sites are quite similar"? They actually are very different with total different merchandise and should be listed in totally different catagories. The only thing they have in common is the ownership.
Thanks for the reply. The dollhouse site is strickly dollhouses and miniatures (things related to dollhouses) the Wood Crafts Site is unfinished wood and other paintable surfaces and supplies to decorate "real" houses and gardens. There really is quite a big difference.
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The general rule of thumb is one business, one listing...if you decide to split your site up into different areas it is up to you but as a rule we list only one of the urls. I am not saying it will not be listed, I was just giving you an opinion on how I would view the situation <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" alt="" /> Your site is still waiting for an editor with experience in that area to review it.
Hello and again Thanks for the reply. These are actually two different corporations, so one business one listing would not apply. I'll wait for the editor to review and not bother you anymore.
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ODP doesn't list fraternal mirrors, whether you personally view them as different corporations or not. It is considered a fraternal mirror if you decide to split your content up into two different domains in order to obtain two different listings. As mentioned in this thread and numerous other threads here, how you decide to split your websites up is up to you. Generally, one business receives one listing. As for it being two corporations, that is not true. Both suziswoodcrafts.com and suzidollhouses.com are registered to:
SUZI'S DOLLHOUSES
29895 N Stampede Rd
Athol, ID 83801
This is simply the reason I chose to mention this so that you would be aware, as this is an area I am very familiar with and IMHO does apply.
SUZI'S DOLLHOUSES
29895 N Stampede Rd
Athol, ID 83801
This is simply the reason I chose to mention this so that you would be aware, as this is an area I am very familiar with and IMHO does apply.
I convinced myself that when I posted my initial question I would not get into an argument with anyone regardless of what was said. However, because we share an address does not mean that we are not two different corporations. We file separate taxes, are incorporated in our state separately, and have a different board of directors for each business. They are definitely two different corporations. Under the laws of corporations two totally separate identities. We didn't create different websites to get two listings, we create different websites because the products are different, the owners though some are common some are different and they truly are separate businesses. Again, thanks for your time, but your statement that we only "personally view" these as separate corporations and it "isn't true" kind of got my dander up. We used the name Suzi's on both as the Suzi's Dollhouses had been in business for some time before we opened our second business (Suzi's Wood Crafts) and has an excellent reputation, thus we thought we could take advantage of the branding.
A
acropelius
Both sites have the same registrant.
Both sites have the same address.
Both sites have the same regular phone number.
Both sites have the same toll free number.
Both sites adequately link to each other.
My guess is that both sites would have the same fax number if one were listed on the woodcrafts site.
My suggestion would be to incorporate the contents of both sites. You may then submit an "update" request to include contents for both and a category change to "Crafts" if desired. I have deleted the listing waiting in unreviewed as (use most appropriate) this business/these businesses will only have one listing.
From your point of view, it's two businesses. From ours it's one business.
Thanks for asking. There is no arguement.
Both sites have the same address.
Both sites have the same regular phone number.
Both sites have the same toll free number.
Both sites adequately link to each other.
My guess is that both sites would have the same fax number if one were listed on the woodcrafts site.
My suggestion would be to incorporate the contents of both sites. You may then submit an "update" request to include contents for both and a category change to "Crafts" if desired. I have deleted the listing waiting in unreviewed as (use most appropriate) this business/these businesses will only have one listing.
From your point of view, it's two businesses. From ours it's one business.
Thanks for asking. There is no arguement.
Different corporations, different products, different Federal ID's, different state ID's, different officers, different ownership (there are 2 common owners with Suzi's Dollhouses), completely separate bookkeeping and accounting. How silly of me to think that my accountant, my attorney, the IRS and the state of Idaho are more informed about my business than the editors at DMOZ.
>Different corporations, different products, different Federal ID's, different state ID's, different officers, different ownership (there are 2 common owners with Suzi's Dollhouses), completely separate bookkeeping and accounting.
So we have heard you say. But have you heard anyone say:
"We do website reviews. How much of that information would have showed up on a website review?"
This begins to sound like a scene from Sylvan and Gullible:
Enter Pooh-Bah.
Suzy: Pooh-Bah, it seems that the promotional activities in connection with my new website must last a week. I should like to do it handsomely, and I want to consult you as to the number of ODP submittals I might spend upon it.
POOH: Certainly. In which of my capacities? As First Lord of the Treasury, Lord Chamberlain, Attorney General, Chancellor of the Exchequer, Privy Purse, or Private Secretary?
Suzy: Suppose we say as Private Secretary.
POOH: Speaking as your Private Secretary, I should say that, as the ODP will have to pay for it, don't stint yourself, do it well.
Suzy: Exactly--as the ODP will have to pay for it. That is your advice.
POOH: As Private Secretary. Of course you will understand that, as Chancellor of the Exchequer, I am bound to see that due decorum is preserved.
Suzy: Oh! But you said just now "Don't stint yourself, do it well".
POOH: As Private Secretary.
Suzy: And now you say that due decorum must be preserved.
POOH: As Chancellor of the Exchequer.
Suzy: I see. Come over here, where the Chancellor can't hear us. (They cross the stage.) Now, as my Solicitor, how do you advise me to deal with this difficulty?
POOH: Oh, as your Solicitor, I should have no hesitation in saying "Chance it----"
Suzy: Thank you. (Shaking his hand.) I will.
POOH: If it were not that, as Lord Chief Justice, I am bound to see that the guidelines aren't violated.
Suzy: I see. Come over here where the Chief Justice can't hear us. (They cross the stage.) Now, then, as First Lord of the Treasury? [I didn't say that all these people couldn't be squared.]
POOH: Of course, as First Lord of the Treasury, I could propose a separate domain name to justify each listing, if it were not that, as Master of the Internet, it would be my duty to link them together, tooth and nail. Or, as Keeper of the Accounts, I could so conceal the ownership that, as Lord High Editor, I should never discover the fraud. But then, as Archbishop of Titipu, it would be my duty to denounce my dishonesty and give myself into my own custody as first Commissioner of Police.
Suzy: That's extremely awkward.
----- at this point I'm hoping real life departs from the script, which proceeds:
POOH: I don't say that all these distinguished people couldn't be squared; but it is right to tell you that they wouldn't be sufficiently degraded in their own estimation unless they were insulted with a very considerable bribe.
Suzy: The matter shall have my careful consideration. But the editors approach, and any little compliment on your part, such as an abject grovel in a characteristic Japanese attitude, would be esteemed a favour.
POOH: No money, no grovel! [Exeunt together]
So we have heard you say. But have you heard anyone say:
"We do website reviews. How much of that information would have showed up on a website review?"
This begins to sound like a scene from Sylvan and Gullible:
Enter Pooh-Bah.
Suzy: Pooh-Bah, it seems that the promotional activities in connection with my new website must last a week. I should like to do it handsomely, and I want to consult you as to the number of ODP submittals I might spend upon it.
POOH: Certainly. In which of my capacities? As First Lord of the Treasury, Lord Chamberlain, Attorney General, Chancellor of the Exchequer, Privy Purse, or Private Secretary?
Suzy: Suppose we say as Private Secretary.
POOH: Speaking as your Private Secretary, I should say that, as the ODP will have to pay for it, don't stint yourself, do it well.
Suzy: Exactly--as the ODP will have to pay for it. That is your advice.
POOH: As Private Secretary. Of course you will understand that, as Chancellor of the Exchequer, I am bound to see that due decorum is preserved.
Suzy: Oh! But you said just now "Don't stint yourself, do it well".
POOH: As Private Secretary.
Suzy: And now you say that due decorum must be preserved.
POOH: As Chancellor of the Exchequer.
Suzy: I see. Come over here, where the Chancellor can't hear us. (They cross the stage.) Now, as my Solicitor, how do you advise me to deal with this difficulty?
POOH: Oh, as your Solicitor, I should have no hesitation in saying "Chance it----"
Suzy: Thank you. (Shaking his hand.) I will.
POOH: If it were not that, as Lord Chief Justice, I am bound to see that the guidelines aren't violated.
Suzy: I see. Come over here where the Chief Justice can't hear us. (They cross the stage.) Now, then, as First Lord of the Treasury? [I didn't say that all these people couldn't be squared.]
POOH: Of course, as First Lord of the Treasury, I could propose a separate domain name to justify each listing, if it were not that, as Master of the Internet, it would be my duty to link them together, tooth and nail. Or, as Keeper of the Accounts, I could so conceal the ownership that, as Lord High Editor, I should never discover the fraud. But then, as Archbishop of Titipu, it would be my duty to denounce my dishonesty and give myself into my own custody as first Commissioner of Police.
Suzy: That's extremely awkward.
----- at this point I'm hoping real life departs from the script, which proceeds:
POOH: I don't say that all these distinguished people couldn't be squared; but it is right to tell you that they wouldn't be sufficiently degraded in their own estimation unless they were insulted with a very considerable bribe.
Suzy: The matter shall have my careful consideration. But the editors approach, and any little compliment on your part, such as an abject grovel in a characteristic Japanese attitude, would be esteemed a favour.
POOH: No money, no grovel! [Exeunt together]
I am not sure what the point of your ridiculous response was but I would not have gone into such detail about our business structure had I not been called a liar "As for it being two corporations, that is not true." by one of the editors.
More to the point I believe is the products that we sell in the two different websites and that fact that they are very different and it would not be appropriate to put them on the same site. If a customer is looking for decoupage supplies, craft paints, unfinished wood boxes etc. they would not look for them in a dollhouse and miniature shop.
Power without knowledge is a very dangerous thing!
More to the point I believe is the products that we sell in the two different websites and that fact that they are very different and it would not be appropriate to put them on the same site. If a customer is looking for decoupage supplies, craft paints, unfinished wood boxes etc. they would not look for them in a dollhouse and miniature shop.
Power without knowledge is a very dangerous thing!
A
acropelius
Hmmm, to answer or not? Kind of hard not to ignore.
Perhaps you misunderstand the purpose of The Open Directory? And the purpose of a directory versus a search engine?
ODP is "not" a search engine and most people don't use it as such. To put it frankly, we don't particularly care about search engines and how someone gets there, or where, or whether or not they are listed in them.
If someone does a search on decoupage supplies, craft paints, unfinished wood boxes, etc, the site would still show if the description warranted it, no matter what category.
I didn't reply after hutchinson's post because I believed that "[Exeunt together]" meant "done"!
From your post above:
"We used the name Suzi's on both as the Suzi's Dollhouses had been in business for some time before we opened our second business (Suzi's Wood Crafts) and has an excellent reputation, thus we thought we could take advantage of the branding."
Your links from that site to the other "is" taking advantage of the branding, use it wisely.
>>>How silly of me to think that my accountant, my attorney, the IRS and the state of Idaho are more informed about my business than the editors at DMOZ.<<<
"Not silly at all! I am sure The IRS, the state of Idaho, your accountant, your attorney, and (forgot to mention the wife) are all esctatic that you're making enough money to keep them happy... Therefore, they "should" know more about your business/businesses!!!
We, on the other hand "do_not_get,_and_don't_want_to_be_paid" as we do this for other reasons. Namely pride of building the directory, and being able to work well together with conscientious editors from around the world." If interested, there are people out there who will take your money (along with the others on your list) to list your site/sites in their search engines.
We have tried to be helpful in explaining why your second site will not be listed. Use the knowledge of your business/businesses and the information we have given you and go with it.
"I" will not answer any further posts, feel free to continue amongst yourself/yourselves!
Perhaps you misunderstand the purpose of The Open Directory? And the purpose of a directory versus a search engine?
ODP is "not" a search engine and most people don't use it as such. To put it frankly, we don't particularly care about search engines and how someone gets there, or where, or whether or not they are listed in them.
If someone does a search on decoupage supplies, craft paints, unfinished wood boxes, etc, the site would still show if the description warranted it, no matter what category.
I didn't reply after hutchinson's post because I believed that "[Exeunt together]" meant "done"!
From your post above:
"We used the name Suzi's on both as the Suzi's Dollhouses had been in business for some time before we opened our second business (Suzi's Wood Crafts) and has an excellent reputation, thus we thought we could take advantage of the branding."
Your links from that site to the other "is" taking advantage of the branding, use it wisely.
>>>How silly of me to think that my accountant, my attorney, the IRS and the state of Idaho are more informed about my business than the editors at DMOZ.<<<
"Not silly at all! I am sure The IRS, the state of Idaho, your accountant, your attorney, and (forgot to mention the wife) are all esctatic that you're making enough money to keep them happy... Therefore, they "should" know more about your business/businesses!!!
We, on the other hand "do_not_get,_and_don't_want_to_be_paid" as we do this for other reasons. Namely pride of building the directory, and being able to work well together with conscientious editors from around the world." If interested, there are people out there who will take your money (along with the others on your list) to list your site/sites in their search engines.
We have tried to be helpful in explaining why your second site will not be listed. Use the knowledge of your business/businesses and the information we have given you and go with it.
"I" will not answer any further posts, feel free to continue amongst yourself/yourselves!
>> decoupage supplies, craft paints, unfinished wood boxes etc. << ....... >> dollhouse and miniature shop <<
These businesses sell closely related products that broadly fall under arts and crafts, and as said by so many eloquent people above, only one of these will be listed.
If the second site sold motorcycle parts, or skis and ski-wear, or something else so totally and utterly unrelated to the first site, then you may have been in with a small chance.
However, in this case the answer is no chance.
These businesses sell closely related products that broadly fall under arts and crafts, and as said by so many eloquent people above, only one of these will be listed.
If the second site sold motorcycle parts, or skis and ski-wear, or something else so totally and utterly unrelated to the first site, then you may have been in with a small chance.
However, in this case the answer is no chance.
Thank you for your very straight forward response. I would like to point out one thing and then I will say no more on this topic as it obvious that regardless of any logical rationale or information the ego's involved will not allow a reconsideration of the decisions involved.
DMOZ has two very distinct and different catagories for the merchandise being sold on these two sites:
Shopping: Recreation: Models: Miniatures and Dollhouses
Shopping: Crafts: Supplies: Woodcraft
There must be a reason these two different catagories are available, perhaps it is because the merchandise is very different.
Again, thank you for your response.
Suzi
DMOZ has two very distinct and different catagories for the merchandise being sold on these two sites:
Shopping: Recreation: Models: Miniatures and Dollhouses
Shopping: Crafts: Supplies: Woodcraft
There must be a reason these two different catagories are available, perhaps it is because the merchandise is very different.
Again, thank you for your response.
Suzi
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They are not completely different, wood kits to make a garden plaque is not all that different from wood kits to make a dollhouse. Wood kits and women's clothing are different. Wood kits and gourmet food are different. Wood kits and related supplies are not. You mentioned that two different categories exist...of course they do. The categories exist for sites concentrating on each of those things and sites are listed in the one most appropriate category. Categories exist that say sell women's accessories and women's shirts, but you won't find related sites listed in one of each of those--you will find the main site listed in the one most appropriate place.
If you opened a physical storefront you would not divide the store in half and make people go through a checkout line for doll items walk across the store and then purchase the wood supplies in another line. If you choose to do that on your websites, that is your business. ODP gets a lot of sites that for whatever reason the webmaster chooses to split things up and then hopes to gather additional listings in additional categories. Most sites just put all their items on one site and then settle for one listing in the one most appropriate category. While it is not our business, and we do not care how you set up your website you are just one of many who set things up in such a way that you feel you have a right to a extra listings when it wouldn't be fair to other sites who aren't dividing things up and using fraternal mirrors. Most webmasters are understanding, and can understand the reasoning behind it. Your sites have the same whois information, and they have links running from one to another...you can claim they are totally different sites but to us they are not. The rules are quite simple. No one is picking on anyone, no one is trying to flex their muscles and show power. You can blame the editors here who are answering you, but if you removed us and added in three or four new ones you still wouldn't get the result that you would like to hear.
The Logical rationale is there and is mentioned on numerous threads here, and in The ODP Guidelines that we base our decisions on. Saying it again and again doesn't make it less concrete, and no one is going to be able to make it more clear. It would not be fair to allow you privledges that are not allowed to other sites, no matter how unfair our following the rules appears to the webmaster.
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I just received your email trying to further argue the point on this subject outside of this forum. I do not give out my personal email address and therefore I do not respond via email. Please see Forum Guidelines - READ BEFORE POSTING and more specifically the section that says, If your site has been rejected, please keep in mind that arguing about the editorial decision will not be tolerated. Enough is enough. Thank you.