Submission to two Categories that are very similar

thomasbliss

Member
Joined
Nov 28, 2003
Messages
68
I have submitted to Business: Arts and Entertainment: Photography: Photographers: Commercial-Advertising: Regional: North America: United States: California

But also noticed that a lesser used category or more general search for just "Architectural Photographers" at
Architectural Photographers
might be better or at least I would like be in both. How does that work? Do I submit to both? Can I request that I be considered for both? They are very similar and essential, I think.

As always I look forward to hearing from you.
Best Regards
Thomas Bliss
 

motsa

Curlie Admin
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Sep 18, 2002
Messages
13,294
Re: Submission to two Categories that are very sim

The search is just that, a search. It isn't a category for you to submit to. The category you submitted to seems to be the correct place for you to have submitted to and that's really all you can do.
 

senox

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Jun 24, 2003
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2,208
Re: Submission to two Categories that are very sim

Maybe you could let us know which one of your sites, 1. http://www.architecturalimpression.com/ or 2. http://www.thomasbliss.com is the one we should take into consideration (your main site). Splitting your photography content over multiple domains doesn't mean you will get multiple listings, definitely not in the same category, and very unlikely in the Business Photography branch where we usually have one photographer (one business) = one listing.

If your main business is architectural photography, then you should keep 1. in the Architectural category. If commercial photography is the focus, then it's 2. in the Commercial-Advertising category. At first sight I'd consider 2. as your main site, and 1. as a sub-site.
 

thomasbliss

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Nov 28, 2003
Messages
68
Re: Submission to two Categories that are very sim

If your main business is architectural photography, then you should keep 1. in the Architectural category. If commercial photography is the focus, then it's 2. in the Commercial-Advertising category. At first sight I'd consider 2. as your main site, and 1. as a sub-site.

Our Guys/Girls in "Architectural Impression" are concerened about being seen in a "Architectural Photography" search. While I am flexable about the thomasbliss.com. If you feel that thomasbliss.com should be listed in Commercial, and architecturalimpression.com being seen in a "Architectural Photographers" search I think that is fine.

If we are found by a search of "Architectural Photographers" we would all be happy. As far as a "sub-site" Im not sure what that means?

Thank you
Thomas
 

theseeker

Curlie Meta
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Mar 26, 2002
Messages
613
Re: Submission to two Categories that are very sim

Please note that one of the things ODP editor *do not* consider when looking at a site is where you will appear in a search. We are a directory and not a search engine.

The general rule is that you will not get two listings in similiar categories, and there are very few exceptions to this. :monacle:
 

thomasbliss

Member
Joined
Nov 28, 2003
Messages
68
Re: Submission to two Categories that are very sim

So... I'm confused, do we do nothing or is some action required on our part to see that the sites are positioned correctly within the ODP.

Thank you again,
Thomas
 

thehelper

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Mar 26, 2002
Messages
4,996
Re: Submission to two Categories that are very sim

The only thing you can do is submit your site. The editors will determine the final placement if it is decided to list it. The only thing you can do is suggest placement by your submission which you should do to the ONE category you feel is most appropriate.
 

hutcheson

Curlie Meta
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Mar 23, 2002
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19,136
Re: Submission to two Categories that are very sim

Please go read the submittal guidelines at http://dmoz.org/add.html again. When it says "Do not submit URLs that contain only the same or similar content as other sites you may have listed in the directory. Sites with overlapping and repetitive content are not helpful to users of the directory. Multiple submissions of the same or related sites may result in the exclusion and/or deletion of those and all affiliated sites" please think of it as referring precisely and exactly to cases such as your two sites.

We'd list one of the sites. Since the brandname URL is more comprehensive than the keyword-stuffed URL, we will strongly favor listing it. If we list it multiple times, we will VERY strongly listing it under the same name each time.

You will greatly oblige us and help your cause (i.e. avoid removal of ALL sites related to you) by working within these guidelines.

As has been mentioned, we don't care about what the search engines do, and they don't care what we think about them. So any of your motives related to search engines are by definition ulterior, and our guidelines absolutely forbid us to take them into account. You will oblige us and help your own cause by keeping them to yourself.

Now as for having two listings: I'm not a heavy Photographic editor, and whether your site (under the same name, of course, so you look like an honest businessman rather than a fly-by-night sneaky spammer) might be listed in both places depends on the local editors' judgment, and that is based on experience at reviewing thousands of photography sites. If you had no previous reputation as a spammer, then submitting once to each of those two sites would not be perceived as a problem. The editors would review the site twice, and list it as many times as they thought appropriate (which could be zero, one, two, or more!) If you've already developed a reputation for aggressive submittals, then the editors would be justified in saying, "this spammer has already been reviewed and listed" and deleting the submittal forthwith.

Looking at the rap sheet, your record looks worse than it really is (some of the submittals were caught in the spam filter, which we know was not your fault). The site is still waiting in the Architectural category but not in the Commercial-Advertising category. You can probably get away with resubmitting to Commercial/Advertising.

You may in addition wish to add a note to the editor in brackets [if possible I would prefer this site bla bla bla].

What can you say to the editor that will make sense and not just irritate them. DON'T ask for search engine placement, and DON'T push multiple domain names for the same site. And I'll add: DON'T demand (or even ask for) multiple listings. (Remember: how can you "get" multiple listings? You can't even "get" ONE listing. All we promise ANYONE is a site review!) What you can say is something like: "[please observe, as you review this site, that our primary business is XXX, although we do a lot of YYY. If we can only have one listing, we'd prefer it in category XXX: but category YYY is different enough, and photographers who can handle both are rare enough, that we think listing in both categories would serve users.]" And remember that the editors' judgment BASED ON THE SITE CONTENTS (and not any preferences you have that conflict with that) will be what determines if and where the site is listed. So make sure before you resubmit that what you need to say about the site is really true (and stays true after the site is listed.)

Of course, if it is NOT TRUE that the site emphasizes (or at least gives equal billing to) XXX, or if it is NOT TRUE that few people cross the great gulph between architectural and commercial photography -- then don't say it: this is information-passing, not marketroidish-deceit. But this is a kind of reasoning might be considered valid and relevant (and might be active for your particular sites.)
 

thomasbliss

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Joined
Nov 28, 2003
Messages
68
Re: Submission to two Categories that are very sim

Stephen, I'm kinda blown away at all that information, and thankful that you took so much time to spell it out for me. Of course now I’m even more scared of the ODP than ever.

It seems that we unwittingly have marked ourselves as spammers with a rap sheet no less... We just make pictures! We want no part of spamming anyone or thing.

From what I'm extrapolating from your post, we basically are just not doing this right. But what I think I understand is that for now we just need to wait and see what happens over the next month, and if nothing happens go from there..is that right? I mean both sites are submitted and it is really in the hands of the editor right? And then if nothing happens we re-submit with a note as you suggested.

Your post ended with “Of course, if it is NOT TRUE that the site emphasizes ... considered valid and relevant (and might be active for your particular sites.) “

Was that intended to be the end? Seemed like it just ended, but if that’s it I get your point.

So I just have one last question. We just wait and see, correct?


Thank you again for your continued help and education of the masses.


Warmest Regards,
Thomas Bliss
thephotographer@earthlink.net
http://www.thomasbliss.com

310.729.0216
 

lissa

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Joined
Mar 25, 2002
Messages
918
Re: Submission to two Categories that are very sim

Ah - don't let hutcheson scare you. He edits a little too often in the dank corners of the directory and it, you know, affects him a bit. ;)

I think he's just trying to tell you to pick the one site you feel is primary, but which links to all your content, and then submit it to the category it isn't waiting in for possible inclusion in the second category. All the rest of his post is standard explanation of all the general whys and wherefores for any lurking spammer who might try to use an otherwise encouraging post as ammunition as to why we shouldn't have labeled his spammy site as such and chosen not to include it.

Hope that made sense. :cool:
 

lissa

Member
Joined
Mar 25, 2002
Messages
918
Re: Submission to two Categories that are very sim

So I just have one last question. We just wait and see, correct?

Missed this. :) Yes, you just wait and see. Or, you could consider applying to become an editor (not necessarily in this area) and helping the project. Either is fine with us. :cool:
 

pvgool

kEditall/kCatmv
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Oct 8, 2002
Messages
10,093
Re: Submission to two Categories that are very sim

It seems that we unwittingly have marked ourselves as spammers
No, as hutcheson wrote
your record looks worse than it really is (some of the submittals were caught in the spam filter, which we know was not your fault).
Sometimes our software marks submittals as spam because not all information can be collected. If for instance it can't determine your ip-adres, which could be caused by a proxy-server.
Nothing to worry about.
 

senox

Member
Joined
Jun 24, 2003
Messages
2,208
Re: Submission to two Categories that are very sim

You don't need to resubmit. I've moved thomasbliss.com for review to http://dmoz.org/Business/Arts_and_Entertainment/Photography/Photographers/Commercial-Advertising/Regional/North_America/United_States/California/ where you first submitted it. It is now waiting there again, along with a few other sites. The main focus of this site, according to the portfolio you show and the information you provide, is not on architectural photography, and there's no point having a misplaced submission waiting somewhere.

Whether architecturalimpressions.com is listable or not in Architectural will be decided by editors. The fact that the portfolio/gallery is under construction will not help. Right now it's awaiting review there, along with about 20 other submissions.

You can also submit thomasbliss.com to the relevant Regional category where your business is located http://dmoz.org/Regional/North_America/United_States/California/Localities/H/Hollywood/Arts_and_Entertainment/Photography/ . You should however not submit both thomasbliss.com and architecturalimpressions.com there (same business, similar content, same location). A submission to Regional will not affect the reviews in Commercial-Advertising and Architectural.
 

thomasbliss

Member
Joined
Nov 28, 2003
Messages
68
Re: Submission to two Categories that are very sim

SENOX, PVG00L, LISSA, HUTCHENSON, AND THEHELPER,

Thank you all for your outstanding support.

I feel loads better about all of this.


Happy Holidays!
Thomas
 
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