The Closed Directory Project

Truthteller

Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2009
Messages
2
This so-called "open" directory project is about as open as the Skull & Bones Club. I have run a reputable statistical consulting business serving clients worldwide for over 3 years, and yet none of the 3 applications I have made to be included in the Statistical Consulting section of this "directory" have ever been approved, or even acknowledged. In view of this treatment, I can't help but think that it takes some grease on somebody's palm to get listed. At the very least, some serious favoritism is going on, and if this project aspires to maintain any reputation for honesty, this situation should be investigated. I'll be interested to see if this message even gets accepted for inclusion in this forum.
 

photofox

Curlie Admin
RZ Admin
Joined
Jun 9, 2010
Messages
2,092
Location
[Right here]
Hello :)

I have run a reputable statistical consulting business serving clients worldwide for over 3 years, and yet none of the 3 applications I have made to be included in the Statistical Consulting section of this "directory" have ever been approved, or even acknowledged.

Please remember that you are not applying to be listed, you are simply suggesting a URL for inclusion. There is no guarentee that any suggested site will be listed.

I can't help but think that it takes some grease on somebody's palm to get listed.
Any editor caught accepting payment in return for a listing will be quickly removed. Our Social Contract is very clear, that listings will always be 100% free. See http://www.dmoz.org/socialcontract.html

At the very least, some serious favoritism is going on, and if this project aspires to maintain any reputation for honesty, this situation should be investigated.
If you feel there is some kind of editorial abuse going on, please do not hesitate to report it using our Public Abuse Reporting System - http://report-abuse.dmoz.org/ All reports are carefully investigated by senior editors.

Since you have already suggested your site, there is really nothing more you need to do. It is best to forget about your site suggestion and look to other means of promoting you site.
 

spectregunner

Member
Joined
Jan 23, 2003
Messages
8,768
This so-called "open" directory project

There is nothing so-called about it. That is the name of the directory. Name calling -1 point.

none of the 3 applications

So you acknowledge that you have broken the rule that tell you to suggest your site once. Rule breaking -5 points.

or even acknowledged.

Every suggestion is acknowledged on screen at the time of the suggestion. the directory has never promised to send e-mails or any other form of communication. Factual misrepresentation -3 points.

it takes some grease on somebody's palm to get listed.
Projecting your personal morality on the editorial community. -25 points.

some serious favoritism is going on
Do you have even a shred of evidence? The fact that your site, which may or may not even qualify, is not listed does not count. Baseless accusation -10 points.

I'll be interested to see if this message even gets accepted for inclusion in this forum.

Duh! It takes 10 second to see that forum postings are not pre-moderated.
Failure to do your homework -3 points.


Gee, you should be thankful the editors don't use a systems of points, or consider forum postings when editing, otherwise you would have dug quite a hole.

I am curious as to the consulting methodology that suggests you badmouth people from who you expect a favor? You see, you have no right to a listing. the only right you have is to suggest your site one time. When and if the editors determine that your site has enough unique content to add value to the directory -- then and only then might get listed.

Cheers,
spectregunner -- retired editor.
 

motsa

Curlie Admin
Joined
Sep 18, 2002
Messages
13,294
When you're a former editor, replying from an editor's point of view, you should expect to be moderated according to the policies used for current editors.
 

Simius Puer

Member
Joined
Mar 17, 2009
Messages
2
I have to agree with the sentiments expressed by Truthteller.

I too have also made a number of submissions, all accurate and following every guideline to the letter - copy writing and following standards are an intrinsic part of what I do. Yet, not once have I had managed to be included.

photofox said:
Hello :)
Please remember that you are not applying to be listed, you are simply suggesting a URL for inclusion. There is no guarentee that any suggested site will be listed.

Not very helpful (and btw, "guarentee":confused:). Truthtellers point is that he/she never even got an acknowledgment or a letter of explanation as to why their entry was not included.

If DMOZ had any customer focus it would do 3 things:

  1. send a copy of the submission request back to the user so that they have an official copy of the submission (pretty standard practice on Commerce sites and best practice in the industry)
  2. in that email add details of what to do if you get no response after a set period of time - even better a link to a "status of your request" page
  3. reply to all failed submissions detailing why the submission has been rejected.

A quick search on Google illustrates the sheer number of people frustrated at the current lack of a) response and b) transparency (and please don't go quoting me any text-book response).

photofox said:
Since you have already suggested your site, there is really nothing more you need to do. It is best to forget about your site suggestion and look to other means of promoting you site.

Again, not exactly helpful. We are business professionals trying to do our jobs right and to serve our clients well. Do you think I can turn to my clients and say "hey, don't worry about your website not being listed in DMOZ - just forget about it"? No, I would soon be out of business.

Incidentally I run a web consultancy and a listing in DMOZ is not exactly an "optional" extra.

We (the submitting public) want to work with DMOZ, not have to fight for any kind of service! Responses such as the 'towing-the-official-line' one to Truthteller don't do much in terms of customer satisfaction.

...(and btw, "promoting you site":confused:)
 

jimnoble

DMOZ Meta
Joined
Mar 26, 2002
Messages
18,915
Location
Southern England
The final screen of a listing suggestion acknowledges receipt. An additional email would a) serve no purpose and b) be unlikely because programming resources here are scant.

You can already check if your website is listable by checking it yourself against our site selection criteria. If it's listable, it's unlikely to be declined.

We don't care about crappy titles and descriptions - we fix them.

We don't care about suggestions to the wrong category - we move them

boiler plate alert :)

You might have misunderstood our objectives and how we operate here. ODP is a volunteer organisation building a directory as a hobby. Editors edit where they wish, when they wish and as much as they wish within the constraints of their permissions. We have no schedules or systems to force people to do work that they don't volunteer to do. ODP is not primarily a free listing service for website owners and it does not attempt to process their listing suggestions within the time scales desired by them.

Some volunteer will process your listing suggestion in time but we can't predict who or when that might be. Elapsed times can range from a few days to a few years. There is no need to re-suggest your website and doing so could be counter-productive because a later suggestion overwrites any earlier one.
 

makrhod

Member
Joined
Apr 5, 2004
Messages
1,899
If DMOZ had any customer focus it would do 3 things ...
Quite right, but only if ODP had customers. It doesn't, of course, because it is completely free. :)

DMOZ has users, certainly, but that term covers everyone who finds value in the directory.
As jimnoble has suggested, you seem to misunderstand the whole purpose of DMOZ, which is not to serve webmasters keen to get their sites listed.

Fortunately, there are many other directories which do offer such a service to their paying customers, and there are plenty to choose from here: http://www.dmoz.org/Computers/Internet/Searching/Directories/
 

pvgool

kEditall/kCatmv
Curlie Meta
Joined
Oct 8, 2002
Messages
10,093
makrhod said:
Quite right, but only if ODP had customers. It doesn't, of course, because it is completely free. :)

DMOZ has users, certainly, but that term covers everyone who finds value in the directory.

Ofcourse we have customers.
Customers and Users are different words for the same type of people.
They are the people for who we build the directory.
These people can look for websites either directly on DMOZ or through one of the other sites that use the DMOZ data.

But not withstanding how you define "customers" and "users" it is a misconception that people wanting their website to be lsited are either one. They are not. They are suppliers and in that relationship DMOZ is the customer. Just see DMOZ as an organization with a large number of postboxes (categories). Everybody is allowed to send mail (suggest websites) to any of those postboxes.
When you send mail to someone do you get a confirmation from that person that he recieved the mail and does he tell you what he did with the mail. No.
Do you reveive a lot of mail from all kind of companies that want to sell you something? Yes. Do you tell them if you read the mail or if you just trew it in the bin? No.
DMOZ tells you that the mail (suggestion) is delivered succesful to the postbox (category). That is already more than most people and companies do when they recieve mail or email.
 

Eric-the-Bun

Curlie Meta
Joined
Apr 16, 2005
Messages
1,056
We are business professionals trying to do our jobs right
I'm a hobbyist having fun and grateful that the directory provides a platform for me to do so.

The perennial problem of trying to get people to understand what we are about. You are running a business and feel there are certain things you need to achieve to ensure your success - we understand that. I understand it. However it is nothing to do with us.

Now like all editors, I work according to my interests, which change over time. At the moment I am interested in an area about 75 miles square and passionately interested in getting sites for a set of little village of less than 100 inhabitants. If anyone has suggested a site listable in the area, I am grateful, if anyone suggested a site listable in one of the villages of extra interest, I would be ecstatic. I hunt out, find and list sites myself and I am currently totally uninterested in any sites suggested to the other 500,000+ categories in the directory.

The sites I list reflect the area, including businesses, large and small, clubs, churches, schools and informative ones. If you saw the sites I consider and compared them to yours, you might take umbrage as, without a doubt, a proportion are, over all, less important than yours. However in the context of what I am doing (building a specific category) and what you want (list your site elsewhere), yours is entirely unimportant whereas the on-topic site merits consideration. Where I to be working in the category you suggested your site to, the reverse would be true.

In a few months time I'll be equally passionately interested in another area or topic, equally grateful for the suggestions waiting to be looked at, equally determined to hunt and find the sites not suggested and equally uninterested in sites suggested to the other 500,000+ categories in the directory (which will then include the area and villages I am looking at now).

In your line of business, having a proper understanding of how the internet and it's denizens work is the key to success. The directory relies on enthusiasts building categories for their own satisfaction, and. as a result, other people benefit, some in unexpected ways because search engines have decided to follow particular algorithms. But that is not what we are about - we are building a good resources in areas that have some interest for us.

So your suggestions are waiting for an editor to get interested enough about the particular category it was suggested to. Your suggestion may not even be needed, an editor could find the site themselves and list it without even being aware you suggested it (90% of all sites I list, I find myself).

Now I have a website for my wife's children's folk dance club which has good PR. Would you expect me to link from that to everyone out there who has a business? No, because it is my site and covers my interests. Does the search engine argument hold any weight? No, because it's nothing to do with me how anyone chooses to interpret my site. Can you ask me for a link? Yes, but I'll ignore you. Would you get any sympathy were you to complain about not being listed on my site? I doubt it.

So how is DMOZ any different? Only in that instead of totally ignoring your suggestion, we store it so when an editor wants to develop that category, they have a list of sites to look at should they want to.

Would you honestly expect me to alter my website to benefit your clients so you can earn a living? I doubt it. But isn't that essentially what you are suggesting - that your business is dependant on someone you don't know changing what they are doing in order to provide a service that they do not offer and are not interested in?

A better understanding of what DMOZ is about will help improve your business and, as you can see from the replies, many editors have kindly supplied a lot of the information you need.

regards
 

hutcheson

Curlie Meta
Joined
Mar 23, 2002
Messages
19,136
There are certainly many posts like "truthteller"'s.

But an experienced editor doesn't need to see posts like that, to know that some people are disappointed. Many of us have individually reviewed--and rejected--tens (or hundreds) of thousands of site suggestions. That's a lot of people who didn't get what they wanted! Unfortunately but inevitably, most of them got more than they deserved.

And we can see the suggestion pools--there are generally hundreds of thousands of suggestions there. That's a lot of work that could be done. And a lot of those people probably wish they could impose their priorities on the volunteers.

It's not fair to say these things are unimportant. They are, and ought to be, totally irrelevant.

So what would be relevant?

Only this fact: completely ignoring the evidence of site suggestions, millions of good sites on the web are unlisted. And this eternal question: NOT ignoring any OTHER possible ways of finding sites to review, what is the most effective process--for any particular time and topic?

The fact is, suggestions are accepted because, sometimes, SOMETIMES, they're part of the answer to that question. And suggestions are sometimes neglected because, well, they're not always a big part of the answer.
 
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