The "right category" type question for today ( sorry )

Greetings to everyone reading this.

The site we submitted is a travel guide to Japan... with some couple of thousands of photos, lots of practical narration and a lot of written articles on things we found to concern people the most when visiting Japan...

And we were wondering that... Just which category would this be ?

I mean it's not a travelouge... it's a travel guide. At least it intends to be one by all means
There are no offered services or such, except that people making travel publications could download the photos... which they actually don't.

There's no office or anything like that, no related publishers, travel or photo agency it's a compilation only made for and available on the web, it's hosted in the US so that english speakers can access it faster ( although i'm not even sure where ^.^' ) by a European company, and we're in Japan making it.

Basically it's a travel guide to further publicise the real Japan, but instead of overlapping official and descriptive information by the MOFA and JNTO we chose a more real, lifelike concept ( which we like better than any other approach of course ). Dubbed it in english as a supplementary travel guide, but the work it has involved and the feedback afterwards... definately doesn't feel like as if the guide was just a side-dish.

I'm not sure which category we chose in the end ( sorry, as i said we were a little confuzed ) but i think it was...

Regional/Asia/Japan/Travel_and_Tourism

But... should it have been...

Regional/Asia/Japan/Maps_and_Views/Photos/

...instead ? Which aspect has more emphasis on the category, the theme ( guide ) or the type of content ( 200k text /w 200M photos ).

Asking whether it was reviewed or not is pointless at this time i guess, and would be improper anyway... for there seem to be two editors for Japan in general and thousands of sites.

But in case we submitted to the wrong category, can that be corrected by reposting it before it is even reviewed? Or would we need to ? Or better not to ? Any kind of opinion and official help is appreciated. The FAQs and guidelines we more or less have already memorized, and the hosting company initially turning us to dmoz has several sites listed, and could answer many questions so far... except this one.

Oh by the way, the site's title is photopassjapan.

Well, that's all,
And thanks for the answers in advance !

Without checking the site, it seems to me that either category would be close enough. I've you've suggested it to one of the categories, don't suggest it to the other, even if it might be better.

Oh, and if there were a category for "Travel Guides", then, according to our template, it would be directly under "Travel and Tourism", so you're on the right track.

I'm sure anyone reviewing websites in either category would be delighted to find a resource that rich in unique, relevant content. (And an editor who disagreed with you about the site's exact placement could just move it there.)

As to the general question (which is a very good one, and far too infrequently asked!)

>Which aspect has more emphasis on the category, the theme ( guide ) or the type of content ( 200k text /w 200M photos

What usually comes first is the subject (Japan), then the type of content. "Travel guide" is a kind of content, or a way of organizing a particular kind of content; "Maps and views" is a more restrictive kind of content. So the operative question would be, "does the vast majority of the content fit the more specific category?" If not, the site would go into the "more general" category.

In this case the organization and purposes of the sites would have to be considered.

So, what's the purpose of the site?

You're selling stock photos. OK, there are categories for THAT -- check out http://dmoz.org/Business/Arts_and_Entertainment/Photography/Stock/ and see how the site might fit there. But, for THAT purpose, the site could use more information. Who generated the information? Who took the photos? (One person, or a group of people working together? -- and would the site act as agent for other photographers?) Are there more where those came from? For people who know me, this is going to sound EXTREMELY strange: but I'd like to see a little bit of promotion of the photographers themselves. There is a subcategory "Photographers" which this site COULD, I think, with just a bit of effort, qualify for. (Just a suggestion, though, the sources of the photos might really not want to offer the possibility of any other related business, and that's OK.)

There may be a reason you're not using Alt-text on photos -- avoiding the ability to do Google searches on them. Or it may have been an oversight. Google site search would work better with alt-text, though. Another suggestion.

The travel guide information is pretty minimal, although it gives the impression of being original (the cardinal ODP virtue, and not a common thing in travel guides!). And it's not well-integrated with the photos. At this point, I wouldn't think of it as a travel guide -- although I think it could be made into one with a bit of effort.

As a foreigner interested in Japan (but pretty ignorant about it) -- the photos are fascinating, but I'd really like to know what I'm looking at. A short paragraph identifying the alien object, with a few words about its place in Japanese society, culture, or history, would make a significant difference to the site's usefulness as a tourist guide. (And possibly, its usefulness as a photography catalog.) You don't have to be an expert: keep writing your own stuff, and just write what you know. In the Travel categories, original material from an informed source is so rare -- for an editor, it's exciting to see someone even TRYING it, even if we think it's not quite enough to warrant a separate listing yet.)

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So, realistically, at this point there are two purposes of the site: (1) sell stock photos, (2) information, mostly visual, for people interested in Japan. These are extremely distinct purposes (much more so than "tourist guide" versus "maps and views") and so (for such a content-rich site) I'd consider it for a listing in both places -- the photographic content might well bear that burden. The only thing that MIGHT keep it from two listings (rather than one) is that the kind of ancilliary information for the two purposes is distinct (more text information for the tourist, more commercial information for the stock photo buyer). And there isn't that much ancilliary information related to the photographs. So the editor might just make his best judgment about the purpose of displaying the photographs, and go with one listing -- which probably OUGHT to be somewhere in Stock Photography.

On the other hand, the content is rich. And, with a bit more descriptive information on the photographs, the editors might begin to be tempted to deeplink some of the "theme" pages.

Now, this isn't something I can guarantee, and it's probably not something that you should ask for (that is, suggest yourself.) But...imagine a page with an article (about the same length as your other touristy articles) about the daily experience of religion in Japan. What are these little shrines used for? Why are they where they are? What is the purpose of the various architectural features? Who built and maintains them? Maybe a few off-site links.

Then, in that context, a photo gallery with a paragraph on each photograph, identifying what element is seen, and how it is different from the same element in other shrines.

I can imagine the "religion" editors being seriously tempted to deep-link that page. Or, to get away from the concept of "targeting the ODP", I can imagine a lot of other websites (one of which might be the ODP) tempted to deeplink it.

Points to remember.
(1) ODP loves original, unique content. If there's enough content, we'll find a place for it, and we'll love it. Do your best to pick a category, sure, but don't worry about the outcome.
(2) EVERY website is a personal website. Don't forget to tell what's relevant about yourself: who you are, what you know, what you'd do for money. (Is it any different than a book, where the jacket contains a paragraph about the author, highlighting what he has done that makes HIM the person to write THIS book.)
(3) Don't target the ODP, but target the subject, and don't forget the purpose. (Websites that have a purpose but no original content are just evil spam: but there is no dishonor in serving a purpose WITH content.)

Well, greetings again, and thanks for the help so far.

In fact we're balancing on a thight edge - funding-wise - that's why I will try to ask such a question while being fully aware that you are not doing status checks. Yes, I read up on this on the forum, and I won't be making questions you can't answer.

But is it possible for someone to check just the general number of pending listing requests for the Japan category ( in its whole ) to give a basic idea on what to expect ? An approximate would be more than enough and we'd be really grateful.

We're simply interested to have at least a vauge idea on how many sites are involved, how much work the editors of the category have to deal with. Would probably ease the frustration of everyone on this project, which is of course not limited to not knowing our status with the DMOZ listing, but every bit of information helps to keep the team together. If this is not too much to ask, can you give us an idea on the number of sites currently in the queue ? Or better yet, a general, or recent trend of how much time it usually takes for the queue in that category to be completely replaced with new requests.

We've gotten ourselves overly enthusiastic on continuing the project as soon as it shows signs of standing on its own feet. Which seems to be somewhat further than we'd have thought.

But is it possible for someone to check just the general number of pending listing requests for the Japan category

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If this is not too much to ask, can you give us an idea on the number of sites currently in the queue ? Or better yet, a general, or recent trend of how much time it usually takes for the queue in that category to be completely replaced with new requests.

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No, unfortunately, we don't/won't give out that kind of information.

uchuunavi said:

But is it possible for someone to check just the general number of pending listing requests for the Japan category ( in its whole ) to give a basic idea on what to expect ? An approximate would be more than enough and we'd be really grateful.

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It might be possible to check but it would have absolutely no use. The number of suggestions waiting won't tell you or us anything about when one of the waiting sites will be reviewed. Even with only 1 site in unreviewed it could take several years before that one site is looked at. On the other side if there are 10,000,000 sites waiting your site could be the first to be reviewed, or the last or anything in between.

uchuunavi said:

Would probably ease the frustration of everyone on this project, which is of course not limited to not knowing our status with the DMOZ listing, but every bit of information helps to keep the team together.

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If your own project isn't capable of keeping its members together and interested you have very serious problems. Never ever look at oustide sources to solve problems of that kind.

uchuunavi said:

Or better yet, a general, or recent trend of how much time it usually takes for the queue in that category to be completely replaced with new requests.

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Never. New suggestions can be added every minute and sites can be reviewed every minute. So the "queue" will constantly change.
I think you are under the impression that sugegsted sites are reviewed based on the date they are suggested. They are not. That is also why we at DMOZ prefer not to name it a "queue" but rather use the temr "pool".

uchuunavi said:

We've gotten ourselves overly enthusiastic on continuing the project as soon as it shows signs of standing on its own feet. Which seems to be somewhat further than we'd have thought.

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That seems very strange to me. You are only continuing when you project shows signs it can stand on its own feet? I have never seen a project / website that can succeed when its members / owners are waiting by the sideline looking at how it is doing. Nothing will be happening in such a situation so it will never stand on its own feet.
If I were you there could only be two things to do, either continue now working on the project and try to make it a succes or abondon it right now as it will never be a succes.
But one thing is sure. DMOZ will never have any influence on the succes of your site nor on any other site. A website can only be made a succes by its owners.

The information "sites are not reviewed by their posting date" was pretty useful to know, thanks, this indeed was a misconception of ours then I guess. It is reviewed in no sepcific order then. Or at least no specific order we may know of. Before you reply to this statement I didn't mean it as criticism... just concluded what I can know.

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As for your critics on our problems and how to hold a project together, with all due respect I didn't ask for help, sorry if you misunderstood me. It's not DMOZ that has the fate of the project in its hands, I didn't want to give off that impression, again, excuse me if I did.

I and other staff members do what we can to get people who would care about it to know the site. Or people who can help with that to do so, if they want to of course. Here and elsewhere on the internet as well.

Going public with nothing but pocket money as funding, and one person helping to get the site optimized, known, hosted free ( for now ), and ideas to gather funds to continue, I am taking the pre-emptive actions in my power against the staff giving up on this dream, before the - in my opinion obvious - three to six months it takes of anything notable happening, even with great daily effort of getting it known by all communities and people who are interested.

As to a concensus on our reply - if you donate them money for this time interval, just to be able to travel the coutry in the meantime, they will send you a postcard with love from each location and draw something cute on it.

But that aside there are several sites which give us feedback because of the actual effort of letting everyone know. Nobody sits and waits, there's hard work with even enthusiastic personal-level rampaging involved, but it still seems a more or less psychological milestone of seeing a major site like DMOZ acknowledging the existence of the project. After reading up on the forum, indeed it may be only psychological, but exactly because of that, it's important.

And there's no lack of enthusiasm that I feel.
But that won't buy the train tickets for too long.
And if there is no prospect of having the project sustain itself - in which we'll only reach a more or less obvious answer once the site is known - there shouldn't be any more money put into it... there has been already, and it's not a commercial site to produce a scalable income or anything similar. Neither was it intended to be.

Sorry for the misunderstanding and please ignore any other parts of the message that actually have nothing to do with information on DMOZ, its editors, and their work. And by that I only mean information that is public of course. I too believe I should not discuss such things here, it was my error even mentioning the reason behind the question.

Sorry.

Now looking back at our posts, the fact that we're using the same username - well it was obvious to me since it's the same site - make them sound somewhat schisophrenic.

uchuunavi said:

Now looking back at our posts, the fact that we're using the same username - well it was obvious to me since it's the same site - make them sound somewhat schisophrenic.

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What do you mean with "our posts" and "we're using the same username".
As on any forum it is impossible for more than one person to have the same username and as on all forums sharing a username by more than one person is not allowed.

as on all forums sharing a username by more than one person is not allowed.

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Um, that's not strictly true. AFAIK, few forums have a rule that only one person should use a username. Sure, there's an expectation that it is and common sense should tell you that it's meant to be a one-to-one relationship but I wouldn't think it's something forum owners really care about (now, one person having multiple logins would be a different matter entirely). I know it's not an issue here in this forum, except for editors (who are not allowed to share their username here with anyone else).