To any editor/s that have the answer?

paulgee

Member
Joined
Sep 13, 2004
Messages
28
:confused: Hi
I have tried listing specific sites of mine and have come up against what appears to be an ODP issue? Before I start I have several sites and these are spread across two companies and some individuals that manage and own them, however that is not the real issue! Some of my sites are treated as my own hobby and some may be serious business, whilst others rely on some sponsors to support them.

The issue is I have submitted recently two independent sites; these are specific sites to specific areas of interest i.e.
1st site
http://www.free-counters.co.uk (specifically a site containing counters both free and paid, this site has been geared to take care of all my different counters I build and in June 2005 is intended to also contain a flash counter) on top of the Java and Graphical! this site has subs as domains that I do not expect to be listed although different from each other like:
http://www.free-counter.co.uk (specific free graphical counter (not listed))
(This site is still growing and already contains over 80 pages)

2nd site
http://www.free-stuff.me.uk (general free stuff site)
This site is intended as a directory style site specifically in the area of free stuff in the general term, it is not intended to merge or be part of the free counter sites as it is not specific and deals from cosmetics to fonts etc! This site will also expand to be very extensive to cover everything in the free stuff area.
(This site is still growing and already contains over 30 pages)

The problem:
Look at: http://resource-zone.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=24960
I do not understand how a site like Microsoft.com (for example) can list hundreds of sub domains and directories under one domain that sometimes could be considered as similar content and I cannot list two completely different sites with completely different content with multiple pages, I am not asking they be listed under the same category but a category that is specific to the respective sites, this I believe gives the user direct access to the area of interest that any user wishes to visit instead of a doorway site (which has been suggested by an editor), because of the diversity of my sites I think this would only serve to confuse if a doorway was employed and i have absolutely no idea how I would describe this page and where you would list it in the dmoz directory (which again could be listed under something irrelevant to the sites themselves?).

Please help me to understand this and your advice would be appreciated.
Thanks
Paul
 

jimnoble

DMOZ Meta
Joined
Mar 26, 2002
Messages
18,915
Location
Southern England
Could it be something to do with other websites that you own but forgot to mention above do you think :D ?

That you've spread your website over multiple domain names doesn't entitle it to multiple listings in ODP. What it does do though, is sow the seeds of confusion. From your point of view, this is probably counter-productive.

The thread you cited above was pretty clear about our policies.
 

paulgee

Member
Joined
Sep 13, 2004
Messages
28
Thanks....

Hi
OK. I am beginning to see what your driving at but must say you are completely wrong, to be honest I do not like the conclusions I have come to from that said but obviously the directory is owned by ODP and subsequently their rules and there is little point in going around in circles over something that is originally intended on my part to be quite simple :monacle: .

I have little doubt that the module sites will ever change to suit ODP rules (however other thoughts are springing to mind that may suit everyone) but I may have to do a separate site/page (against my better judgment) that lists all our sites so the user at least stands a chance in finding us via the directory if for some reason you will not list them any other way, I haven’t a clue what description I would give this or where on earth you would put it in the directory at this point? It would need to be something like.

URL: http://www.somedomain.com/page.html
Location: http://dmoz.org/no-idea-where.html (obscure more than likely)
Page Title: various sites run by dreamsight or globel or an individual we are not sure which?
Description: free stuff counters WebPage graphics programs flags slimming bulk mailer html encryption advertising this list is likely to go on forever?

Perhaps you may have a suggestion? Please!

One last question!
I have one site listed called http://www.webmaster-tool.co.uk this is listed on http://dmoz.org/Computers/Graphics/Web/ as it is a large graphics site, if I were to list another page like Microsoft within your directory for instance:
http://www.webmaster-tool.co.uk/index_flags.htm
In: http://dmoz.org/Reference/Flags
As this area again is rather large and specific and expanding would this be considered ok in your opinion and would there be any other reason for not listing it before I proceed?

Thanks
Paul
 

ishtar

Member
Joined
Oct 2, 2002
Messages
688
I didn't read your post very carefully because what I see is a webmaster whose only concern is getting as many links as possible. That's not what we're here to do. A submitter should submit his/her site to the most appropriate category. Editors are given more freedom in listing deeplinks, and listing sites in multiple categories. [Note: 'Site' is not the same this a 'domain'. A 'domain' may contain many 'sites', like geocities. And a 'site' can contain many 'domains'.]

As this area again is rather large and specific and expanding would this be considered ok in your opinion and would there be any other reason for not listing it before I proceed?
Thanks for waiting for that reply before submitting your site.

Editors want to list sites with the most unique and comprehensive information available. Have you compared your page on flags to the best site in the flags category? If it's better than that, then we want to list your site immediately. If it's not, then there is no rush for us to add your site.
 

paulgee

Member
Joined
Sep 13, 2004
Messages
28
ishtar said:
I didn't read your post very carefully because what I see is a webmaster whose only concern is getting as many links as possible. That's not what we're here to do. A submitter should submit his/her site to the most appropriate category. Editors are given more freedom in listing deeplinks, and listing sites in multiple categories. [Note: 'Site' is not the same this a 'domain'. A 'domain' may contain many 'sites', like geocities. And a 'site' can contain many 'domains'.]


Thanks for waiting for that reply before submitting your site.

Editors want to list sites with the most unique and comprehensive information available. Have you compared your page on flags to the best site in the flags category? If it's better than that, then we want to list your site immediately. If it's not, then there is no rush for us to add your site.

Thanks for the reply:
Oh no that could not be further from the truth, each domain is treated in our view as an independent site, if you look at the sites themselves you can see this, they do have relationships with other domains but that is purely for the user to follow if they so wish, like webmaster tool someone looking for graphics may wish to put a graphical counter on their page, but not necessarily! We have tried to cover every eventuality! There are also sponsor parts to help towards paying for the overall structure as you have already gathered most is done for free or with a simple link to improve the individual sites relevancy.

Also in some instances we could not make up our mind what to name the site, in webmaster-tool instance it was either that or webmaster-toolsite in the end we chose webmaster-tool.

But overall I get your meaning.

The category I have chosen for the flags I think suits that specific category as it’s all about the entire world flags and graphical images to suit on many countries! As for if it’s the ”best” site for this I could not say other than we have tried to make it that way, however; user response has been in preference of our flags because of the quality of the images produced and also because they are angled and not just upright, this again is a matter of choice so would have to say: you tell me? I am bound to say I would think so!
Compare:
http://www.multimediapalace.com/wff/u/gb-flag.htm
(Already listed on the intended page)
To:
http://www.webmaster-tool.co.uk/flags_001.htm

Another question:
The most general domain I have is webmaster-tool if this site was to inherit the other domains i.e. become part of webmaster-tool under a directory in it’s tree structure would this be OK, in effect I would be mirroring the site into that directory for instance:

There would be: http://www.webmaster-tool.co.uk/free-counters/index.htm
And to suit us: http://www.free-counters.co.uk as the static domain

Therefore free-counters as the domain would not be listed I think maybe satisfying the problem, you would then link to the webmaster tool page directly (if suitable) for the pages content etc.

I don’t know at this stage if the one server could handle it to be honest but it’s just an idea at this stage, this way there is only one domain listed in your directories!

I will give a very brief idea of the globel structure (it’s constantly being improved)

As I said before there is input and ownership from several companies and individuals something like ODP, I act as administration of all the sites as the original acorn of the idea, as my hobby expanded I needed this input to grow the overall plan! I have been lucky so far to have such a dedicated bunch.

Globel (the program part) stands completely on it’s own as Globel Limited essentually this is a robot that updates certain directories, checks links monitors and produces an overall picture of any of the group sites, it’s involvement could include the organisation of the dmoz site for instance even although it’s not part of that site directly! It operates in the background like any other software program, it is intended for the globel domain to become isolated, as webmasters usually want their sources hidden, this part is completely my project, my baby so to speak, it does not need to be listed and has several robot files in place to keep search engines out.

The modules (to name two) for instance are: webmaster-tool.co.uk or free-counters.co.uk these parts are very specific and in some cases will grow to huge sites on their specific topic and would be difficult to compound them into one site so they have their own domain so they can break off from the tree at any point, webmaster-tool for instance has grown quite considerably over the last year, at any point if a individual wants to leave this internal arrangement and has put enough input into the overall project webmaster-tool would become his/hers with a simple transfer, putting it all together under one site would make this ability at present very difficult and that’s why it cannot be done to suit ODP, i.e. free counters will consume at least two servers in months to come, this is inevitable with it’s own individual expansion rate, I expect webmaster tool to be the same as we haven’t even started on software listings like tucows that one of the members wish to do yet but it’s on the cards (overall the sites are still in their infancy).

The ideal situation would be (as you said) to put it on one site as from a Webmaster point of view the traffic ranking of that individual site would be very high, however in eventuality for our own purposes it would also become a bit of a monster very hard to segregate and in reality bad news for one server to cope with, free counters on it’s own gets thousands of hits every day from all the counters around the internet supplied by us! We have tried from a visitor’s point of view to keep the service fast.

There are a lot of projects still on the shelf at present and although long winded I hope that explains it to you a little more!

Paul
 

paulgee

Member
Joined
Sep 13, 2004
Messages
28
this thread[/URL]

My apologies
As you did not reply I thought we could go no further and wanted to discuss it more openly to find out what to do, and/or get other idea’s;~) I am still not at ease with the idea of making doorway pages (however not ruled out I need more input) I did think the subject veered off slightly from the main thread, I did think that the original thread was more on a individual domain sites status, this discussion covers other domains now and also questions that are not necessarily related, I did read somewhere that the site status page was exactly that and to avoid deep discussion there, I apologise if this offends you or is a mistake on my part, which thread would you like me to use!

Thanks
Paul
 

hutcheson

Curlie Meta
Joined
Mar 23, 2002
Messages
19,136
>each domain is treated in our view as an independent site...

and that is your right. We shall not attempt to change your mind.

But our view is different, and ... it is set by staff, it is written into the submittal policies -- we could not change it even if we wanted to. It is a waste of your time and our patience with you to argue about it.
 

paulgee

Member
Joined
Sep 13, 2004
Messages
28
hutcheson said:
>each domain is treated in our view as an independent site...

and that is your right. We shall not attempt to change your mind.

But our view is different, and ... it is set by staff, it is written into the submittal policies -- we could not change it even if we wanted to. It is a waste of your time and our patience with you to argue about it.

Yep; I know. Took a bit to understand though, I also can understand logically why, just goes a bit against my way of thinking, therefore I have a hard time getting my head around it, it does restrict the directory in some ways but on the other hand it protects it in others you cannot have it all way’s can you, it’s a problem that’s intriguing from my point of view though.

The way I have suggested above is a way forward if that’s allowed, i.e. the directory itself will never see my other sites therefore they are not mirrors as such, your entire directory will only see is webmaster-tool.co.uk the DNS will take care of the rest!

Thanks
Paul
 

hutcheson

Curlie Meta
Joined
Mar 23, 2002
Messages
19,136
>it does restrict the directory in some ways but on the other hand it protects it in others

Absolutely. Any directory will have its own rules -- different ones will feel that they need different kinds of protection (and can therefore permit different freedoms.) Forums differ in the same way.

I've also helped build indexes of web content at other sites. Different indexes have different perspectives, different strengths and limitations. No one index can do everything. I figure out roughly what I want to contribute to the web, and figure out which (if any) major project it will fit into -- and what commonality there is between its goals and mine. Then I contribute items in that area of common interest. Some of my interests won't match: so sooner or later I'll probably have to start my own project, but so far everything I've done has been of sufficiently public interest for someone else to publish it.
 

paulgee

Member
Joined
Sep 13, 2004
Messages
28
hutcheson said:
>it does restrict the directory in some ways but on the other hand it protects it in others

Absolutely. Any directory will have its own rules -- different ones will feel that they need different kinds of protection (and can therefore permit different freedoms.) Forums differ in the same way.

I've also helped build indexes of web content at other sites. Different indexes have different perspectives, different strengths and limitations. No one index can do everything. I figure out roughly what I want to contribute to the web, and figure out which (if any) major project it will fit into -- and what commonality there is between its goals and mine. Then I contribute items in that area of common interest. Some of my interests won't match: so sooner or later I'll probably have to start my own project, but so far everything I've done has been of sufficiently public interest for someone else to publish it.
Thank you hutcheson
Now I finally understand it (sorry it took a while, don’t get out much;~) I am very impressed in this other way of thinking, we all have our (sometimes admittedly narrow view) of how things should be without looking deep enough, me included! Slap.

I am a programmer by foundation and have recently been discovering all that you have said and commented on with different indexes and find the whole thing extremely intriguing sorry if I was a bit pushy in this situation, I have a profound interest in the internet structure overall.

Question: do I continue using this thread? As any entry now “like the flags site” will be associated or do I just referance it? To the editors, I already started this thread from another because I thought it was becoming bogged down with other questions i.e.
http://resource-zone.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=24960
Got a slap from spectregunner for doing this, or do I just start another again?

We are still working on flags and still have a little work to do before I submit:
http://www.webmaster-tool.co.uk/index_flags.htm

Thanks for all your help.
Paul
 
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