What the listing process could mean

Will listing process lead to an out-of-date directory?

Hi. I recently resubmitted my site after about 8 months of no response. I resubmitted to a new category, one that I feel better about being the "correct" category. There are very similar businesses to mine in each of the two categories, but I suppose they are slightly more similar in this latest category. I know that this puts me at the bottom of the queue, but I'd rather be at the bottom of the right queue than at the middle of the wrong one...

It's only been a few weeks, so I in no way expect to have been reviewed by now. But since I've submitted, I had this thought:

If it takes 1 to 3 years to be reviewed and approved for placement in the directory, doesn't that lead to a seriously out-of-date directory? I do realize that the Directory Project is quite under-manned with volunteers, and I think for the good of the directory users something has to be done.

Something as simple as slightly altering the business rules algorithm to note when x% of people are waiting to be reviewed for a particular category, then that category needs an extra Editor. If a category has x% of people in the queue to be reviewed, and there are editors that are reviewing less than y% of those people per month, then either replace the Editor or get an extra Editor. If you can't tell, I just pulled this out of my butt... but something along these lines should be in the works.

I'm a small business owner and I truly believe that a user of the DMOZ directory looking for an affordable web development agency in the Portland, Oregon area would greatly benefit if they were able to find me (www.sicaweb.com). I realize that there are hundreds of other listings for that category, but I provide a better service and who's to say I don't. I honestly believe, and many of my clients agree, you can't get a better bang for your buck than with me.

I'm sure there are thousands of other people waiting in their respective category queues with similar thoughts as this, and I realize that something can't be done immediately. I just hope that some sort of alternative plans are being considered as the backlog will only get bigger and bigger thus making the Directory more and more outdated.

I have volunteered to edit a category (I haven't heard a response), and am willing to volunteer my limited time either as an editor or in any other capacity you may need a guy such as myself.

Thanks.

Dare I assume that you submitted your site here? http://www.dmoz.org/Regional/North_...Internet/Internet/Web_Design_and_Development/

Yes, that is right. 8 months or so ago I had posted it to Computers: Internet: Web Design and Development: Designers: Full Service: S but thought that a do regional listing would be more appropriate as almost all of my clients are from the region and though i don't meet many of them face to face, they do seem to get a feeling of comfort knowing i'm in the same time zone and that they can meet me if necessary.

Good - a site that has a regional presence, and offers services over a wide area too, can typically be suggested once in Regional and once in Topical.

I also agree that even with web development, direct content is important -- a lot of web development firms don't realize that. Those two suggestions sound plausible.

Now: given your limited time, it doesn't matter what I think the ODP needs (I can do that myself if I really believe it!) or what some non-volunteer thinks the ODP needs (he doesn't get a vote, sweat equity is the only form of stock that exists!). All that matters is: what do YOU think the ODP needs? Is is essential (in your opinion) that all your local competitors be listed? Essential enough that you're willing to give your time to it? (Well for the ODP if that is so! but if not, what gets done will continue to be only the needs other volunteers see.)

And now, cynicism rears its ugly head. Why would you be so interested in your local competitors (legitimate businesses though they be) but not at all interested in local businesses of whom you are the CUSTOMER? Ulterior motives get suspected (which I am sure does not surprise you.)

What to do then? Volunteer: but volunteer in a subcategory of Portland or one of its suburbs -- not yet one containing your own site. Find the local sites that haven't been (and wouldn't ever be) suggested, and yet are there to serve the community.

Will this get your site listed more quickly? Perhaps -- if the other local categories are all nicely comprehensive, that active higher-level-category editor is more likely to hit the web developer subcategory. Or, having established your pro-bono bona-fides, you may be accepted into the Portland internet category, where you'd be trusted (and expected) to list your competitors (suggested or not!) as well as your own site. And, for that matter, your competitors' customers as well as your own.

Something as simple as slightly altering the business rules algorithm to note when x% of people are waiting to be reviewed for a particular category, then that category needs an extra Editor. If a category has x% of people in the queue to be reviewed, and there are editors that are reviewing less than y% of those people per month, then either replace the Editor or get an extra Editor. If you can't tell, I just pulled this out of my butt... but something along these lines should be in the works.

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It all sounds good in theory...until you realize that (a) we don't assign resources (i.e. editors decide where they want to edit, we don't tell them where to edit), (b) editors are not required to do a specific amount of editing per day/week/month, and (c) the pool of suggested sites is only one source (and frequently not the best one) of potential listings for any category.

Given those facts, removing an editor who actually wants to be editing in a particular category because they aren't reviewing enough suggested sites wouldn't make any sense -- if editor A is reviewing y% of suggested sites, well, then that's y% more than would be reviewed if editor A was removed.

Thanks for your replies.

Let me preface my answers by saying I would in no way expect any different treatment for any of my websites regardless of whether my volunteer services are used.

What do I think the ODP needs? A new algorithm or more volunteer resources to ensure that the queue to be reviewed isn't so long that the directory gets outdated.

Should my competitors be listed? Of course they should. Only the ones that provide enough useful information on their website to make it worthwhile for a user to visit. And yes, I would gladly volunteer my time for this.

Cynicism: I have decided I would like to help out the ODP a bit. I honestly wouldn't care too much if I was made an editor of a category not at all related to my business, one of which was the home of businesses I am a consumer of. However, I would prefer my own line of work because of the education... it is always good to know what techniques the competition is up to. I think a good education is a reasonable thing to ask for in exchange for some sweat equity. By saying I prefer my line of work, this doesn't necessarily mean either of the categories I've submitted to. I'd be just as happy editing a web design and development category in any other medium to large city in the nation.

Volunteer: I can't remember exactly what category I volunteered for, but I believe it was national web design firms beginning with the letter Y. Now let me tell you, it was difficult to find any firms beginning with the letter Y to suggest that had decent content and weren't already in the Directory. But I'm sure I could have done a better job. If you have access to my application, you will no doubt see what I mean.

You saying that what gets done will be only what the volunteers see needed leads me to believe that no alternative algorithms are being considered at this time, but that extra volunteers are needed. Is this correct?

The bottom line is I think the ODP is sweet, but will be less sweet if the waiting lines continue to grow and grow longer than the 1 to 3 years that they already are. I'd like to volunteer some time to the ODP to help make it better. I have no idea how long the queues are and how long it takes to edit a site, but I can definitely volunteer some of my time to it. I realize that one man isn't going to put much of a dent in solving the problem, but in my mind it is kind of like voting. You don't really get to complain unless you vote, regardless of how insignificant your vote is, and just maybe, your vote will make the difference.

Motsa: I just read yours so now I'm editing this paragraph in: I see that given points a, b, and c, that my ideas wouldn't really work. And like I said, I pulled those ideas out of my butt. What I am suggesting though is that some dialogue starts (and maybe it already has) about changing something in the algorithm, even if that means changing your points a,b, and c to make a new algorithm work.

By now you have obviously read my messages, and probably clicked the link to my site... if, by what you have seen so far, would like any of my time, the offer is open.

You saying that what gets done will be only what the volunteers see needed leads me to believe that no alternative algorithms are being considered at this time, but that extra volunteers are needed. Is this correct?

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We always welcome new editors.

What I am suggesting though is that some dialogue starts (and maybe it already has) about changing something in the algorithm, even if that means changing your points a,b, and c to make a new algorithm work.

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That's where we tend to diverge from non-editors -- points a, b, and c are really not up for the kind of change you're talking about. We will never force anyone to edit a particular category, we will never force the kind of minimum amount of work that most people seem to expect we should, and the pool of suggestions will always be just one source of potential listings -- as long as editors are building the directory and not being abusive, where they find the URLs (suggestion pool, billboards, local paper, flyers, word of mouth, etc.) is irrelevent.

>no alternative algorithms are being considered at this time,

There is no algorithm to alternate from!

>extra volunteers are needed.

No, extra volunteers aren't needed. The ODP is useful as it is, with the resources it has.

Oh, sure, more good volunteers could make it better. There's no way a static index of the dynamic web could be perfect, so the more good volunteers, the better it would be. But there's obviously also a point of obviously diminishing returns. We may be close to that point already -- I don't know. My opinion doesn't matter, though: that's a decision for each editor to make. So long as editor #123456 sees that he makes enough difference to make his work worthwhile, he has a reason to keep working.

Thanks for the insight...

... I appreciate your thoughtful responses.

I've taken your advice and volunteered for a local category:
Top: Regional: North America: United States: Oregon: Localities: P: Portland: Recreation and Sports

I suggested these, as I think they're useful resources that belong in that category:

portlandrockgym.com
portlandjax.com
pcusc.org

Thanks again. I hope to be able to help out.

I realize that one man isn't going to put much of a dent in solving the problem

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If you catch the editing bug, you would be surprised at just how much difference one person can make.

Good Luck!

Yeppers, lissa is right. About 16,000 edits ago I thought I would help by adding a few gunship websites.

Sweet

Looks like I'm an editor now. God help us all...

Not including the sites I suggested as part of my application, there were 2 sites waiting there for my review. This will be fun, I'm excited. 2 isn't much action I know, but probably as much as someone with my experience can handle right now...

Thanks again to the people who replied in this thread.

And you can go out and find other sites to add there as well, you know. You're not limited to what's suggested or what you put on your application.

Congratz and welcome Scratch9er