What's wrong with DMOZ...

I've tried to submit my site a couple of times now over three months (I realize that this is BAD of me to do, and that I've probably delayed my inclusion process... )

Anyway, I was beginning to become a bit anxious about being included at ALL after a while, the last time I did this I got included within some few weeks!
Anyway, so I start "investigating" a bit and I start searching for OTHER sites I'd expect to be inside the DMOZ in this category, here comes the funny part!
The "branch" of DMOZ is just like totally GARBAGE!!!!!
It doesn't contain ANY of the really INTERESTING sites that SHOULD exist within that category!
It contains a lot of "dummy small sites" with maybe like about one or two employees, but NONE of the really GREAT sites in that category is listed at ALL!!
And I am talking about REALLY great sites!
Sites that have like tens of millions of unique readers every month!
Sites owned by companies like Google and Microsoft etc...!!
The category I am talking about is named WebControls and exists within ASP.NET in Programming...

In fact NONE of the sites I would expect to find in that category exists at ALL AYWHERE within DMOZ...!!

This brings in an interesting question...
Is that category HACKED?
Will my site which is a million times smaller than some of those other sites ever be listed?
At this moment the only nice thing is that at least almost none of my competitors are listed either, but I think this is something that needs further investigation...
Might it be that competitors in this category suggests their competitors site twice a day to make sure it's banned from the index...?

What is going ON???


(PS!
I know this is gonna get snipped, but my site is <ur removed> and it's a really good quality site, right to the very bone of what the category SHOULD contain but it's not listed and I am pretty frustrated since my company is depending on this listing to be able to survive...
Some other sites that SHOULD exists there is: <urls removed>

The most probable thing that is happening is that noone is interested enough to edit in that category.

Did you suggest all those sites that in your opinion should be listed in that category? No. Why not?

> The category I am talking about is named WebControls and exists within ASP.NET in Programming...
There is no category with name webcontrols in http://dmoz.org/Computers/Programming/Internet/ASP/ASP.NET/
nor is there one somewhere else in DMOZ

> Might it be that competitors in this category suggests their competitors site twice a day to make sure it's banned from the index...?
No need to be paranoid. Such a thing has never happened in the past and if it will ever happen in the future it will not result in a ban of the site.

> I am pretty frustrated since my company is depending on this listing to be able to survive...
The only advice I can give you is: close down the website and get a proper job. Depending on something you don't control yourself to become a succes is never a good thing to do. If your site can't survice on its own it is not worth being on the net and it is not worth being included in DMOZ. Only you can make it a succes. And to do so will cost you a lot of time and money.

>The most probable thing that is happening is that noone is interested enough to edit in that category.

Well, how does one become an editor here then...?

>Did you suggest all those sites that in your opinion should be listed in that category? No. Why not?

Wow...!
I didn't really think it was my job to name my competition?
But I wouldn't really mind!
Though I am more interested in getting in myself and see no reasons to why I should spend a lot (obviously a LARGE lot) of time to make my competition more resistance to me...

>> The category I am talking about is named WebControls and exists within ASP.NET in Programming...
>There is no category with name webcontrols in http://dmoz.org/Computers/Programming/Internet/ASP/ASP.NET/
nor is there one somewhere else in DMOZ

Sorry...
http://dmoz.org/Computers/Programming/Component_Frameworks/NET/Tools/Components/WebForm_Controls/

>> Might it be that competitors in this category suggests their competitors site twice a day to make sure it's banned from the index...?
>No need to be paranoid. Such a thing has never happened in the past and if it will ever happen in the future it will not result in a ban of the site.

ok...!
Thanx!

>> I am pretty frustrated since my company is depending on this listing to be able to survive...
>The only advice I can give you is: close down the website and get a proper job. Depending on something you don't control yourself to become a succes is never a good thing to do. If your site can't survice on its own it is not worth being on the net and it is not worth being included in DMOZ. Only you can make it a succes. And to do so will cost you a lot of time and money.

I am tempted to come with a couple of four letter words towards your personality!
I think I will let it be though.!
But you really need to get your attitude FIXED!!

.t

>I didn't really think it was my job to name my competition?

That IS our mission, though, and anyone who wants to help with it is welcome. Clearly it's not a mission you're interested in -- which is fine. You work on your mission, and we'll work on ours.

I don't pvgool intended to come across as rude. He was just trying to tell you that relying on someone else to do something in order for your site to survive is never going to work. Staking your site's survival on being listed in someone else's directory is never a good thing to do. You may want to visit an SEO forum to get some tips for ranking well without a listing in any given directory -- this wouldn't be the place for that kind of a discussion but there are a lot of forums out that were it would be.

> Well, how does one become an editor here then...?
> Though I am more interested in getting in myself and see no reasons to why I should spend a lot (obviously a LARGE lot) of time to make my competition more resistance to me...
These two statements don't go well together. If you want to become an editor you will have to give all of your competitors a lot of time by reviewing and listing their websites. And if you are not interested to do so why do you expect someone else to be interested enough to review the sites in that category. Maybe you should first try to understand what DMOZ is and what it is not. It certainly is no what you seem to expect.

pvgool said:

> Well, how does one become an editor here then...?
> Though I am more interested in getting in myself and see no reasons to why I should spend a lot (obviously a LARGE lot) of time to make my competition more resistance to me...
These two statements don't go well together. If you want to become an editor you will have to give all of your competitors a lot of time by reviewing and listing their websites. And if you are not interested to do so why do you expect someone else to be interested enough to review the sites in that category. Maybe you should first try to understand what DMOZ is and what it is not. It certainly is no what you seem to expect.

Click to expand...

Sometimes it is better to not judge before you come with statements...!
I have contributed to at least 10 OS projects in addition to being the founder of SmartWin++, SmartWin++ is BSD licensed and I've spent like about in total 500-700 full workdays on it and I've "earned" 8$ on it! So don't come to me and talk about "charity" and "helping out" and what you wrote in your first reply was not only rude but also suggested that you where arrogant, pretentious and stuffed prejudice in addition to having a really bad attitude!
In fact I hang out a lot at webmasterworld.com (regarding SEO sites...) a lot and the ONLY reason why I care to post there is because people are NICE!
I have probably got a couple of thousand usenet posts behind me and I am pretty used to people being rude in forums, but I had to stop posting to the usenet some three four years ago because it destroyed me as a person since everybody was way arrogant and more interested in destroying others than in growing for one selfs or actually helping out!

I have no problems whatsoever in "naming my competition" and we've been discussing it in my company that we should in fact put up an "Our competition" page just to make a point out of it where we link to all the other companies serving similar services/products as us! This would help our customers doing the "right choice" and we would in addition get a reputation of being honest and so on. Plus that we've found at least some 2-4 other good arguments for doing so!
I do already in fact have a link to one of my competitors on my website, I think that's probably more generous than 99.9% of the rest of the world! Though I was offended when you wrote it indicating that "I should"! And I don't think it is my job (unless I am an editor) to do so, I think it's rather the editors job to make sure that the index is maintained and keeps a minimum amount of quality!
Also I am having a really hard time getting ANYTHING into dmoz.org and I know that the submissions have been DOWN for a VERY long time!
In addition I know that the difference in SEO for a site which IS in the index and a site which is OUTSIDE is A LOT! This is especially true for google!
In fact every single SEO site I've seen have at least a couple of articles about DMOZ.org stating it's THE MOST IMPORTANT step to fullfil for getting high rankings and doing E-Commerce!
And then when I try to post a polite question asking for help I get automatically stuffed into the "newbi box" or "xxxxxx box" within half an hour!
I WAS asking in a pretty polite way, maybe it's difficult to separate the "xxxxxx" from the "grown ups" but either you should try to read what you reply to "one more time" or you should try to avoid to reply!

My point is though that there are OBVIOUSLY a REALLY high number of REALLY GOOD quality sites like ajax.asp.net which attracts millions of users every month and is probably founded around THE most important "buzz word" on the net today that is OUT of the index! So either the index is dying, there are some corrupt people maintaining those parts of it or there are some other major conspiracies happening...
I think I am entitled to an answer to that question, without running the risc of being harrased and degraded as a human being!
(PS!
I know you have answered it, I just wanted to make a point)

.t

Sometimes it is better to not judge before you come with statements...!

Click to expand...

In all fairness, you did write "Though I am more interested in getting in myself and see no reasons to why I should spend a lot (obviously a LARGE lot) of time to make my competition more resistance to me...", which sounds a lot like self-interest, something we're not overly keen on.

I think it's rather the editors job to make sure that the index is maintained and keeps a minimum amount of quality!

Click to expand...

If no editor finds the category where you want your site listed of such overwhelming interest and importance to them that they drop anything else they're doing to go edit in that category, then the category remains in the state it was. It doesn't matter whether the category is about a so-called "buzz word". If no one wants to edit there, it doesn't get edited. It's a simple matter of fact when you are talking about a volunteer-run site like ours where volunteers aren't ordered where to work.

Also I am having a really hard time getting ANYTHING into dmoz.org and I know that the submissions have been DOWN for a VERY long time!

Click to expand...

The site suggestion form was down during and after our server crash but has been available for quite some time now.

So either the index is dying, there are some corrupt people maintaining those parts of it or there are some other major conspiracies happening...

Click to expand...

None of the above? The fact that you feel a single category or topic is being neglected does not negate the entire directory. Not does it indicate corruption, conspiracies, or abuse. In fact, the only thing it indicates is that no one has felt like editing there recently.

As a pondering aside, wouldn't AJAX sites belong in the AJAX category?

motsa said:

As a pondering aside, wouldn't AJAX sites belong in the AJAX category?

Click to expand...

Thank you!
Nice and informative without any personal attacks!!

Hmm...!!
That's probably true!
I just thought of our library as a library of WebForm_Controls, but maybe it should rather be in the AJAX directory...??
Should I try to RE-submit my site than into the AJAX category...??

(Also is this a more ACTIVEcategory...??
As in "Editet more frequently"...??)

.t

> Also I am having a really hard time getting ANYTHING into dmoz.org
Which only shows how little you know about DMOZ. You can not get anything into dmoz at all. Only editors can. The only thing you can do is suggest a site you think might be of interest to the editors. Nothing more.

> In addition I know that the difference in SEO for a site which IS in the index and a site which is OUTSIDE is A LOT! This is especially true for google!
No. You think you know. It has been proven by several people who know what they are talking about and it has been confirmed by people from inside Google that DMOZ has no special effect on the listing of a site in serach engine results. It has exactly the same effect as any other link to your site.

> In fact every single SEO site I've seen have at least a couple of articles about DMOZ.org stating it's THE MOST IMPORTANT step to fullfil for getting
high rankings and doing E-Commerce!
I wouldn't believe to much about what is written on these sites. Most of them don't know what they are talking about. But it is always easy to blame someone else if a SEOer couldn't do his job properly. Luckely there are some SEO people who know how to do a good job.

> And then when I try to post a polite question asking for help I get
It wasn't polite at all. Trying to get some help form people and at the same time telling taht what they are doing is garbage is not polite.

And neither is the following polite
> So either the index is dying, there are some corrupt people maintaining those parts of it or there are some other major conspiracies happening...
I think I am entitled to an answer to that question, without running the risc of being harrased and degraded as a human being!
(PS! I know you have answered it, I just wanted to make a point)

And your point is?
Except from being angry about something that DMOZ does not, and does not want to, provide.

The only problem I can see is that you are misinformed about what DMOZ is and what it can and will do for you.

pvgool said:

pvgool said ...

Click to expand...

I thought I was never going to have to do this again ever more in the whole of my life, but here it comes, I hope it's my last time!
*plonk!*

.t

(Also is this a more ACTIVEcategory...??
As in "Editet more frequently"...??)

Click to expand...

Never go for what you think is a more actively edited category. Go for the category that is most appropriate for your site. Submitting to the wrong category will likely only result in a longer review delay because the first editor to come across the suggestion will have to send it to the right category for review and you'll start waiting all over again.

As for determining activity levels. it's generally a pointless exercise because a category that someone is actively editing today could become dormant tomorrow while a category that no one has edited in two years could suddenly see a flurry of activity tomorrow.

motsa said:

As for determining activity levels. it's generally a pointless exercise because a category that someone is actively editing today could become dormant tomorrow while a category that no one has edited in two years could suddenly see a flurry of activity tomorrow.

Click to expand...

Ok!
What does it take to start editing the WebForms_Controls category...?
Unless it's more than 7 days full work to get it "up to date" I'd be willing to become an editor in that category and get the current workload done...
And NO I would NOT deny my competitors to come into it...!!
In fact I'd be willing to submit a couple of them myself...


.t

As a pondering aside, wouldn't AJAX sites belong in the AJAX category?

Click to expand...

Probably not. http://dmoz.org/Computers/Programming/Languages/JavaScript/AJAX/ should be for sites about AJAX stuff, resources, how to use it, general toolkits, etc. rather than things which happen to use AJAX as a means to a particular end.

What does it take to start editing the WebForms_Controls category...?

Click to expand...

You could start by reading http://dmoz.org/help/become.html

But the question I would have is that if you so obviously think so little of us, what we do, the priorities we assign, and our general integrity and philosophy -- why would you want to be part of us?

I don't want you to answer here -- I didn't ask the quesions to see or debate your answers, but I would suggest that those are questions you might wish to privately answer to your own satisfaction before applying to become an editor.

Successful editors are those who understand what we do and why we do it, and are (at a minimum) in general agreement.

They are persons who respect the work done by those who have come before them, and are able to start at the very bottom and work their way to additional responsibilities and peer respect.

Respect, within the ODP, is measured by what one has done within the ODP.

One's "resume" may (or may not) help one become and editor, but it counts for absolutely nothing once one is in the door.

Thats my free advice, worth exactly what you paid for it. No response required or expected. If you feel a compelling need to respond, then you've missed what I am tryingto say.