Why was my listing removed and how do I get it back on ODP?

My website, <URL Removed> was listed on DMOZ (http://dmoz.com/Shopping/Gifts/Gift_Baskets/) for years and disappeared from the list at the end of 2005.

I must've resubmitted the site a half dozen times and even wrote to the editors to find out what is going on. To date, I've received not a single reply.

I'm a huge fan on the ODP but only if the editors care enough to make it work. Can someone tell me why <URL Removed> was removed from the listing, why editors are not responsive and what needs to be done to get my site listing online?

Thank you,

Eric Lituchy
CEO/Founder

Since we no longer provide status on this forum - I'm afraid you can't get an answer. However some general points.

I must've resubmitted the site a half dozen times and even wrote to the editors to find out what is going on.

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We consider that spam.

To date, I've received not a single reply

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Most editors do not reply to email, consider it a one way channel of communication.

I'm a huge fan on the ODP but only if the editors care enough to make it work.

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From my point of view it does work very well, and is selective in what sites are listed and creating unique content. Your view probably is that if your site does not get listed, it does not work very well.

Can someone tell me why <URL Removed> was removed from the listing,

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No, we do not provide that kind of status info.

,,why editors are not responsive

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See above. Editors try to avoid dialogue with site owners, since it often leads to threats.

and what needs to be done to get my site listing online

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You can do nothing to make that happen.

So why did my listing disappear?

At the end of 2005 (Maybe in November), my site completely disappeared from the ODP listing. In fact I noticed a bunch of site had been removed/delisted, etc.

Why would my site be listed for years and then just disappear?

Lastly, I think the dmoz editors need to come off there high horses and start showing a little respect for people like myself. We are the one that make your job possible. We build website that are useful, engaging and have quickly changed the ecommerce landscape. Why not give us a little respect.

Why have a link to email the editor if it is a "one way" communication?

Why do you no longer provide status info? Do you really think this is a positive experience to the user? God, if I ran my business like the dmoz is run I'd probably be hung. Maybe it's time for a few changes at the dmoz, don't you think? Read all the complaints and I think you'd agree.

Sincerely,

Eric Lituchy

If you define an editors job as the removal of spam and multiple submissions, the catching of improperly submitted sites, the removal of duplicates and mirrors, the correction of hyped up descriptions, the reception of death threats from site owners in addition to the simple listing of sites, then indeed I think that the many webmasters out there are making my activities [not job, this is not a job] possible.

If I ran my business like DMOZ then I would be bankrupt.

If DMOZ ran like my business it would be morally bankrupt and cease to exist.

Read all the complaints and I think you'd agree.

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On the contrary, most of the complaints are an indication that the system works.

I think you should expect to not get a reply from the editors. The ODP community very strongly urges editors to NOT communicate even with site owners who seem most innocuous--because impressions are sometimes be misleading.

And, because impressions are sometimes misleading, I can (without implying any moral failure on your part) say "innocuous" is unfortunately not a good characterization of the impression you had made. So further communication is likely to be unusually unproductive.

I can say, for whatever it's worth, that the ODP processes are designed to work without necessitating dialogues with site owners; therefore, it is unlikely that a failure to communicate will harm a website's chances of being listed. Or, to put it another way, it's almost perfectly certain that a website's chances for being listed will NOT be increased by communication with the site owner.

And, if you think about it, that's the way it should be. If a website can't stand on its own, giving it a listing because of communication with the website owner -- is unfair favoritism. (You could even call that kind of editing "abuse": and editors have been removed for it.)

For the record, I do not edit and review any sites in Picnic and Gift backet type categories and never intend to. From what I've seen it's a spam magnet.

>Do you really think this is a positive experience to the user?

No, of course not. We know perfectly well that the ODP "user" isn't looking for a reason why nonlisted sites aren't listed. So the lack of what the user would never want to look for, is not going to impact the user experience at all in any way.

The ODP user is looking for information on a subject, and it is the websites that ARE listed that are going to give a positive experience (or, in the case of bad listings, a negative experience.) No user would be looking in the ODP for a site he already knows about -- that would be silly! And therefore the millions of sites that the ODP doesn't list, don't affect the user experience (unless, of course, he can't find what he's looking for, and THAT is rather improbable in the gift basket category.)

Thanks for lake info...

bobrat, you may be expressing your feelings about your work (I understand your not paid so it's not a "job") in general and I'm sure the work is not very rewarding.

However, all I'd really like to understand is why we got delisted. I honestly think it is a technical issue because I noticed a bunch of sites "delisted" when I notice mine was gone.

Is there someone or someway to check on this? This would not be an editor question but someone involved in your database department maybe.

hutcheson, thank you for the information, but I find it ridiculous to think that an editor was unfair if they answered a question in regards to "Why is my site no longer listed'? What's unfair is to remove sites with no explaination and no way to find out why it occured.

Years listed - now gone...

hutcheson - why would my site be listed for years (we've been online since 1997) and then all the sudden be delisted? It makes no sense.

elituchy, you may be unaware that in surfing circles, the title "webmaster" does not confer respect. ("Sorry, we've known too many webmasters.") But whether a webmaster or not, respect is not something that can be demanded. In communities worth visiting, respect will be given readily, once earned. (And different communities respect different kinds of accomplishments. If this community doesn't give you the respect you desire, perhaps you should seek a community more attuned to your own ideals.)

But do you indeed respect this community's ideals? Have you, for instance, reviewed bobrat's contributions to the sum of human culture on the internet? And was your omission of any sign of respect for his accomplishments a deliberate slight, or merely another failure on your part to live up to the standards you demand of others, or merely an indication that there simply isn't any grounds for communication, because there is no shared ideal? Think about it.)

What's unfair is to remove sites with no explaination and no way to find out why it occured.

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But we do provide an explaination: All sites must be compliant with our editing guidelines.

Tell the truth now, when was the last time you gave a careful, detailed read of the editing guidelines? Do you know for a fact that your site is guidelines compliant? Are you aware that the fact that a site was once guidelines compliant does not guarantee a listing for infinity?

What would be unfair is if we promisted to tell you every time we did anything to your listing, and failed to do so. However, we are scrupulous in our stance that we do not communication our editorial actions to anyone other that someone who can read the editor notes on any given site.

What would be unfair is if we were to list sites of a type that are specifiaclly mentioned in our guidelines as the types of sites we do not list. But I strongly suspect you already know that.

There are many reasons why a site might be listed for years and then removed. It wouldn't be abuse to merely tell you why a site was removed. Now, this forum can't be used for that (because of forum policy, not ODP rules), and it would be risky to use private communications.

What would be abusive is to take an editing action based on communication with a website owner.

But since the ODP is here to facilitate editing actions, and editing actions on a site can't be based on communications with the website owner, then ... communications with a website owner about his site are pretty well certain to be unconstructive.

Human?

spectregunner - Funny how you read "demand respect" in my sentence "Why not give us a little respect." FYI - my site is 100% compliant with your editing guidelines.

hutcheson - this is not a personal attack on you or bobrat so don't even go there. I just want to know why if a site is 100% compliant with your editing guidelines is would be delisted. Maybe an error occured? Hey were all human.

Funny how you read "demand respect" in my sentence "Why not give us a little respect."

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I do not believe that the word respect appeared anywhere in my posting, so I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

FYI - my site is 100% compliant with your editing guidelines.

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No comment

elituchy said:

At the end of 2005 (Maybe in November), my site completely disappeared from the ODP listing. In fact I noticed a bunch of site had been removed/delisted, etc.

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If the site was removed at the end of 2005 at the same time as lot of other sites it might be because of technical difficulties. We have a tool that checks website availablity. It removes all sites not available from the public view. These sites are marked and an editor needs to look at these marked sites to check if the site is realy gone or maybe moved to another url.
See http://research.dmoz.org/publish/chris2001/odp_reports/ and look at the statistics for 2005 for more explanation.

At the end of 2005 (Maybe in November), my site completely disappeared from the ODP listing. In fact I noticed a bunch of site had been removed/delisted, etc.

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Disclaimer : I do not edit anywhere near commercial (too scared ).

First thing - if you have resuggested your site to the category, there is no more to do. It will be reviewed and either re-listed or not.

Secondly - if you noticed a bunch of sites all going at the same time then possibly they all had something in common. As the knowledgeable person in that area, you are well placed to identify what.

[Of course this may not be the case - last night I stumbled across a category and found a site that had been re-cycled, another that had been taken down and then went systematically through the whole cat. As a result a whole bunch will disappear all for different reasons, some to be de-listed, some will need rereview, others moved to more appropriate cats.]

The Guidelines are under constant review and are often refined to cope with whatever new situations and twists turn up on the internet. It may be that reason is an interpretation of the guidelines, it may not be. However you have resuggested your site so it will be looked at again.

I would advise careful checking of the guidelines, especially on the things that would prevent a site being listed. If you found a rectifiable fault and corrected it, a further suggestion of your site identifying the change would probably be acceptable but further suggestions would not serve any purpose.

It is of course possible for an editor to do detective work on a situation years past but it will take time, which has to be thought of in terms of being multiplied by all potential requests. This is why we refuse to handle individual sites here otherwise we would have to handle every one presented to us and we don't have the time.

regards

This editorial guidelines extract is also worth reading.

bobrat, you may be expressing your feelings about your work (I understand your not paid so it's not a "job") in general ...

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On the contray.

I'm pointing out that it's not a job - it's something I do because I enjoy it. Many think of editors as "employees" and expect them to act that way, which is not a good way of looking at things, since editors work where and when they want.

If it was a job, then I would be paid, and would have to work to someone else's direction, in that case I could well be editing Picnic Basket sites and not enjoying it, but I'd keep my mouth shut since I was being paid.

and I'm sure the work is not very rewarding.

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If that was true, and I kept on working as an editor, it would be a symptom of insanity.


I would suggest you pay strong attention to Jim's post (the one above this)

jimnoble]This [url=http://dmoz.org/guidelines/include.html]editorial guidelines extract[/url said:

is also worth reading.

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Jim, I read the Open Directory Editing Guidelines and my site is 100% compliant. Thanks for the link.