http://www.distributedpowersolutions.com

[matt1234]

Hi,

 

I submitted to http://dmoz.org/Business/Energy_and_Environment/Renewable/ a while ago and not sure what happened.

 

Any help would be much appreciated!

 

Matt

[nea]

It is waiting for review in that category. There is no need to resubmit. Thanks

[matt1234]

Thanks!

[matt1234]

Taking forever...

 

I submitted http://www.distributedpowersolutions.com about nine months ago and http://www.odysen.com about 3 months ago. Both under http://www.alexa.com/browse/categories?catid=107835.

 

About six months ago I figured the only way to get a site listed was to become an editor. So I applied and got rejected with rationale being there are already too many editors in this category. Go figure.

 

Meanwhile, I've discussed this problem with others in their same category, I was actually talking up how great dmoz and alexa was, and they go and submit and get listed within days. I feel like I'm being blacklisted by big brother here.

 

Any suggestions???

[Alucard]

In order to look up your status we will need the ODP category to which you made the submission. We have nothing to do with Alexa.

[pvgool]

We are not Alexa, We are ODP aka DMOZ.

Alexa is using an old copy of our database. Just look the number of sites listed in http://dmoz.org/Business/Energy_and_Environment/Renewable/

[matt1234]

here's the dmoz directory

 

http://dmoz.org/Business/Energy_and_Environment/Renewable/

 

Apologies about Alexa. I didn't realize how out dated they were. Regardless, it's not on the "updated" dmoz either. Anyway, what does it take to get it listed, like I said, I tried to become an editor but was told there were already too many. There are many other sites missing from renewable that aren't listed either. But what to do.

 

Appreciate any help here!!!

[thehelper]

Both submissions are awaiting editorial review. Read my signature which should answer your question about the wait time for a review

[matt1234]

Status of distributedpowersolutions.com

 

http://www.distributedpowersolutions.com

 

Submitted to http://dmoz.org/Business/Energy_and_Environment/Renewable/

 

It has been about a year now.

[nea]

I'm sorry, but there is no change. It is still waiting for review.

 

The waiting submission is dated April 28 - please do not submit your site again! It will not speed up your review, and there is a real risk that it will delay it. If you haven't see your site listed in 6 months' time, you are welcome back to this same thread (you may want to bookmark it) for a new status report. Thanks.

[matt1234]

Brilliant. You folks are generating some great karma. Up to two years to get updated. Maybe dmoz just needs some more administrators. oh wait, I applied to be an administrator and got turned down due to too many administrators. Stupid me, what was I thinking, that an organization that takes a year to review a website could possibly need any help, I'm such a retard.

[bobrat]

Ah, but you are under the misunderstanding that we are a free listing service for your business. But in your next life you might understand.

[matt1234]

Hey, I offered to help build the directory through being an administrator for this category. There are a number of qualified websites that are missing. Why keep the pie so small?

 

but you are under the misunderstanding that we are a free listing service for your business.

 

Gee, where could I have gotten that misunderunderstanding...

 

and is the only major directory that is 100% free

[bobrat]

It does seem to be a common misunderstanding, but in http://www.dmoz.org/add.html

 

We don't accept all sites, so please don't take it personally should your site not be accepted. Our goal is to make the directory as useful as possible for our users, not to have the directory include all (or even most) of the sites that could possibly be listed or serve as a promotional tool for the entities listed.

 

Please recognize that making the ODP a useful resource requires us to exercise broad editorial discretion in determining the content and structure of the directory. That discretion extends (but is not limited) to what sites to include, where in the directory sites are placed, whether and when to include more than one link to a site, when deep linking is appropriate, and the content of the title and description of the site.

 

You should not rely on any aspect of a site's inclusion in the directory. Please understand that an editor's exercise of discretion may not always treat all submissions equally.

[matt1234]

Please recognize that making the ODP a useful resource requires us to exercise broad editorial discretion in determining the content and structure of the directory. That discretion extends (but is not limited) to what sites to include, where in the directory sites are placed, whether and when to include more than one link to a site, when deep linking is appropriate, and the content of the title and description of the site.

 

Thanks for the clarification. I now firmly understand that DMOZ is the poster child of Internet elitism.

 

The true snob never rests; there is always a higher goal to attain, and there are, by the same token, always more and more people to look down upon.

 

What we are headed for is a sort of social structure in which the highbrows are the elite, the middlebrows are the bourgeoisie and the lowbrows are hoi polloi.

 

All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others.

 

If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face - forever.

 

 

 

Or maybe something from a more familiar environment...

 

http://www.wired.com/news/business/0,1367,2607,00.html

[bobrat]

Still failing in our understanding I guess. My view of elitist is Google, where the site that pays the most to the best SEO gets the best search results, and the site that pays the most to Google gets the Google Ads.

 

The internet is by it's very nature elite, those who do not speak English, those that cannot afford Internet access, those who cannot comprehend the truth [ot lack thereof] and perils of the web, are falling by the wayside, or sucked into mass market spam, their brains addled in the process.

 

If anything the ODP attempts to right some of those inequities. Where else does a web design company with 100 employees and a budget of millions get an even chance at a single listing each in the same category and next to each other.

 

Where else do hard working editors find the 300 hidden mirrors and clones of a single company that pretends to be meultiple companies, and clogs up Google with it's multifarious results.

 

Where else can I so easily find a web site in Romanian for online shooping of cosmetics. http://editors.dmoz.org/World/Rom%c3%a2n%c4%83/Cump%c4%83r%c4%83turi/Frumuse%c5%a3e_%c5%9fi_s%c4%83n%c4%83tate/

 

Where else can a site in Faroese on Society [not too long ago assumed to be heading to be a dead language] be so easily found http://www.dmoz.org/World/Faroese/Samfelag/

[matt1234]

I CAN get listed in Google. (This takes over a year with DMOZ, wait, I don't know how long it takes because I still haven't been listed.)

 

I CAN read about how they do their rankings, based on incoming links, content, keywords, and other things to better understand what users are looking for. (On DMOZ, I have absolutely no idea how any of the administrators decide to accept or decline a website or simply to never, ever, respond either way about it.)

 

If I have a problem with google, I CAN bitch to them about it and they respond within 24 hours with mostly problem fixed or a detailed explanation for the concern. (On DMOZ, this conversation itself I'm sure has taken about 10 times longer than it would to work on the actual problem.)

 

Look, I think the idea of DMOZ is great, like I said, I've offered to help with being an editor but have been told to **** off. There are over 5,000 websites related to my category, DMOZ has but 600 (has barely changed over the last year), a little over 10%. This is not a good sign. Is DMOZ too arrogant to be at all concerned with becoming irrelevant?

[hutcheson]

Interesting article: in fact, it would have been especially enlightening if you had known who sponsors the ODP!

[hutcheson]

>On DMOZ, I have absolutely no idea how any of the administrators decide to accept or decline a website or simply to never, ever, respond either way about it.

 

By the way, it's "editors", not "administrators". We're doing work, not bossing anyone else. There is a huge conceptual and practical difference there!

 

But if you want to know how editors decide to respond, it's very simple. Because so many webmasters are such violent and vicious jerks, editors are strongly recommended NEVER to respond.

 

And if you want to know how editors decide whether to accept or reject a site, the guidelines are publicly available. Anyone can read them. But mostly there's no need, because it's pretty simple also: unique information, accepted; hardly any unique information, rejected.

 

If you want to know how editors decide what sites to review first -- that too is simple. Every editor makes the decision based on any criterion they want, so long as it doesn't unfairly promote their own sites.

 

As to your feeling "blacklisted" -- that is irrational (although perhaps a weakness to which extremely self-centered people are prone.)

 

Stand back a moment, and think. Yours is not the only site on the web. There are others. And if you can ever attain that perspective, then you can start putting basic sixth-grade arithmetic to work. How many others are there, and what's the chance of any particular site being one of those reviewed tomorrow?

 

Editors are going to review 5 thousand or so sites tomorrow. There are maybe 100 times that many sites that have been submitted. So all other things being equal, you have about a 1% chance of being reviewed tomorrow. That chance is obviously greater in smaller categories (where we need more sites to be comprehensive) and much smaller in very large categories (where the sites we already have would keep any surfer busy for years.)

 

Now, just because you buy a lottery ticket and don't win, does that mean the Lottery Commission has blackballed you? That would be nonsense, absolute nonsense! Most people don't win. With the lottery, you pay again tomorrow. But with the ODP, your ticket is good until you win. And every day, there's a new lottery. Most site submittals don't get reviewed; but a few (few thousand, or few percent) do.

[matt1234]

And if you want to know how editors decide whether to accept or reject a site, the guidelines are publicly available. Anyone can read them. But mostly there's no need, because it's pretty simple also: unique information, accepted; hardly any unique information, rejected.

 

Why not just post the website if it's legit and let visitors have the choice to go the website?

 

If you want to know how editors decide what sites to review first -- that too is simple. Every editor makes the decision based on any criterion they want, so long as it doesn't unfairly promote their own sites.

 

I guess that explains the extremely long backup of websites. You should suggest to also add "so long as the backup does not exceed 10% or a new opening for editor should be added".

 

As to your feeling "blacklisted" -- that is irrational (although perhaps a weakness to which extremely self-centered people are prone.)

 

What about the red marks next to sites that I've read about on other boards?

 

Stand back a moment, and think. Yours is not the only site on the web. There are others. And if you can ever attain that perspective, then you can start putting basic sixth-grade arithmetic to work. How many others are there, and what's the chance of any particular site being one of those reviewed tomorrow?

 

Well, if there was some type of process in place, maybe I could work out the arithmetic. A first come first served methodology might seem like a good starting point. That way, I could understand the lead times and have an expection. But the results show a completely random process.

 

Editors are going to review 5 thousand or so sites tomorrow. There are maybe 100 times that many sites that have been submitted. So all other things being equal, you have about a 1% chance of being reviewed tomorrow. That chance is obviously greater in smaller categories (where we need more sites to be comprehensive) and much smaller in very large categories (where the sites we already have would keep any surfer busy for years.)

 

If a category is getting to large, break it up into further sub-categories. This would for one make sure that if a trend is happening that it is followed, two that new categories are opened up allowing for new editors to manage them, and three it would lead to a better managed process, keeping down the backlog.

 

Now, just because you buy a lottery ticket and don't win, does that mean the Lottery Commission has blackballed you? That would be nonsense, absolute nonsense! Most people don't win. With the lottery, you pay again tomorrow. But with the ODP, your ticket is good until you win. And every day, there's a new lottery. Most site submittals don't get reviewed; but a few (few thousand, or few percent) do.

 

C'mon, the category I'm submitting to has barely changed, if at all, over the last year. I've also submitted a much more exciting site, http://www.odysen.com, that is also on the waiting list. It seems to me though, as you stated above that once a category gets large enough, it doesn't get the attention "if big enough to already keep the user busy", that any new submissions are just overflow and will never, ever, get looked at.

 

Here are the sites I'm waiting for:

http://www.distributedpowersolutions.com

http://www.odysen.com

http://www.solarminnesota.org (this one was recently submitted so I'm holding back on mentioning it on this board yet)

[matt1234]

Interesting article: in fact, it would have been especially enlightening if you had known who sponsors the ODP!

 

So why the hell is DMOZ so ****ed up with a backlog of what, 500,000 websites? Is it not obvious that anything that gets that out of control will lead to nothing short of anarchy with everyone throwing their hands up saying the hell with it and doing whatever they feel like, which leads to laziness leading to waste/inefficiency and a COMPLETE WASTE OF TIME?

 

Ever hear the quote "get busy living or get busy dying"

 

or how about

 

"i intend to keep working until the last dog dies"

 

Think of how different DMOZ would be if the backlog were about zero, how many more diverse categories there would be, how much more useful it would be. You think you're bogged down now? What do you think things will be like five years from now, a waiting list of 5,000,000, or maybe two to three years?

[flicker]

>Think of how different DMOZ would be if the backlog were about zero

 

You've got another misperception going here. Our goal, and our job, is not to list sites for the benefit of webmasters; it is not to process submissions. It is to add sites. And, in fact, if NONE of the 5000 sites we add tomorrow comes from the submissions pool, we will have achieved our goal just as well as if every single one of them had.

 

We don't really care if a given site has been submitted two years ago, yesterday, or never submitted. It's really irrelevant to us, because we're interested in listing EVERYTHING on the Internet. Not just sites which are submitted. Certainly not just the sites of angry and rather foul-mouthed webmasters who think we owe them immediate service for free.

 

Suggesting your site to us is of mutual benefit to both of us. It saves us a bit of time, and makes it more likely your site will be listed eventually. But that's really all. There's no guarantee related to a site suggestion, ever. As long as we continue growing our directory at a good pace, we are doing what we have set out to do. The size of the submissions pool is really irrelevant to us. Even if there were 0 sites or one million sites that had been submitted, our work would be exactly the same.

[Spin-Zero]

Quite an interesting thread, but there seems to be an impasse......

 

Is there a FIFO system in place for reviewing submitted sites?

 

What are the editors looking for when reviewing a site? Is it simply a check to determine that it was submitted to the appropriate category, or are there other criteria used to determine acceptability?

 

Is there a list somewhere that shows categories desperately needing editors? I've applied before as well, and told that there was already enough for the category selected (I think that's what it said...). If we knew where assistance was needed, then I could apply to categories suffering the most backlog.

[shadow575]

your quote

"Why not just post the website if it's legit and let visitors have the choice to go the website?"

 

Again, you need to realize that this is a directory not a search engine.

 

You might want to check out

the Open Directory Help Center regarding "How to submit your site"

 

As it states:

"Our goal is to make the directory as useful as possible for our users, not to have the directory include all (or even most) of the sites that could possibly be listed or serve as a promotional tool for the entities listed."

 

This may help clarify some of your concerns if you are willing to read through it.

[hutcheson]

>Is there a FIFO system in place for reviewing submitted sites?

No. "First site submitted" is a totally meaningless factoid for any number of reasons. ("First site published" might be meaningful, but it's not information we have.) But the more important issue is, it fundamentally contravenes several of the project's goals and ideals.

 

The random approach is really much better in a number of ways, including being more efficient, less systematically biased, and less susceptible to manipulation by vicious SERP perps.

 

>What are the editors looking for when reviewing a site?

Unique content, like the guidelines say.

 

>Is there a list somewhere that shows categories desperately needing editors?

Editors sometimes make such lists in the internal forums. The fundamental problem is that most categories needing help need it because there is a lack of disinterested interest in the subject, or because the category is under massive malicious spam attack -- not something we want a new editor to have to deal with, and not something we'd entrust to an unknown editor.

 

>I've applied before as well, and told that there was already enough for the category selected (I think that's what it said...).

Sigh. The standard note gives a long list of reasons that might apply. People are supposed to scan the whole list and evaluate for themselves which are applicable, not skip to the end and latch onto the one reason that is very seldom applicable. IIRC, the last reason says a site is "too large for a new editor, OR (OR!) already has enough editors." That's actually two possible reasons, and the former is much more common than the latter!

 

>If we knew where assistance was needed, then I could apply to categories suffering the most backlog.

Attitude shift: the project does not assistance with the backlog of unreviewed submitted sites. We need assistance with the backlog of unreviewed unsubmitted sites! Submittals are merely the most basic kind of assistance. They are not the problem; they are merely a very tiny and very corrupt bit of the solution.