Fired from ODP after requesting additional cat

[Guest]

Good people of the ODP forums,

 

I was an editor for two cats for several months. Thought I was doing a good job. In early March 2002, I requested an additional cat to edit (no editor listed for that particular cat), and was removed as an editor all together. I have written to DMOZ staff several times requesting an explanation for removing me. I still have not heard from anyone. If a meta reads this and is willing to look into this, please reply and I will provide my editor name and password. All I am looking for is an explanation.

 

I think it may have to do with the new editor of the cat I was editing threatening to report me for what she suspected as abuse because I also had my own site listed in the cat. According to guidelines, listing my own site is not illegal as long as I don't cool it, or manipulate it. To the best of my knowledge, I did neither.

 

The new editor listed two sites owned by a known spammer in our circle that had previously been rejected by myself and several other editors of higher level cats. We had discussions over these sites, and she insisted on adding them proclaiming them as the "best sites of the cat" according to her editor notes. I have a feeling that, somehow, I was railroaded out of the category so that the new editor could list the sites which are now proudly displayed in the cat in question. Additional details, URL's, etc can be provided if anyone has the energy to review/investigate.

[stevesliva]

If you provide only your editor-name, we'll be able to take a look.

[Guest]

My editor name has been e-mailed to you. Thank you for your interest.

[Guest]

http://dmoz.org/newsletter/2000Sep/removal.html explains why people get removed (in general). Your amazing story doesn't appear in this article. /images/icons/smile.gif

[Guest]

kctipton,

 

Thank you for the link. I do appreciate you taking the time to respond. I have reviewed the link, and as you stated, it does not touch on my circumstances. Even if I did do something that deserved being banned, I would like to know what and why.

[Guest]

These three websites [...] are owned by the same individual, and are basically mirror sites. I used to be editor of this category until I was removed, but based on this new information, I feel that I was railroaded so that [...] could abuse the directory. A simple whois look up will verify it. I have a strong feeling that [...] is abusing the category that I got kicked out of and is affiliated with the individual that owns the three sites.

 

[examples edited out. According to forum guidelines details of abuse accusations should be provided directly to metas participating in this forum and are not allowed in public threads. Reported case will be carefully investigated and general report will be published here.]

[wladek]

Indeed, you are right about those three sites. Thank you very much for valid abuse report. OTOH your suspitions about malicious intentions behind your removal are pure nonsense. The detailed history of the whole case is on the record and there is nothing to support your theory.

 

IMHO it should be obvious to you what you did wrong. If you want to say something about it to us - please write directly to one of metas. We still have one unresolved problem and your suggestions could help.

[Guest]

wladek,

 

Thank you and all of the other meta editors for taking the time to investigate the issue. I may have been a little paranoid, but things just didn't ad up for me.

 

You stated that my suggestions could help with one unresolved issue. I look forward to hearing from you and finding out how I can help with the issue at hand.

 

I have sent you a private message. If you get the opportunity to reply, let me know what it is that I can do to help.

[Guest]

Just A Quick Follow Up.

 

We (wladek, stevesliva, and I) had corresponded in detail several months ago about suspected abuse of a category editor. Please reference the following posting;

http://www.resource-zone.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=bemome&Number=2037&page=1&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=0&fpart=

 

During our conversations, you had taken a close look at my site (Send E-Mail For URL)that was listed in [...]

 

We had extensive conversations (wladek, stevesliva, and I)and the meta editors determined the site suitable for the category. <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" alt="" />

 

Recently, it was removed from the directory, and I can't help but feel that if it did not warrant placement in the directory during our conversations, it would have been removed then. <img src="/images/icons/confused.gif" alt="" />

 

Who can I appeal the removal of my site to? Also, it looks like the category is being abused again by the new editor who has listed [...] and [...] that are owned by the same person. <img src="/images/icons/mad.gif" alt="" />

 

Thank you for taking the time to read this message, and I thank you in advance for your reply.

 

[examples edited out. According to forum guidelines details of abuse accusations should be provided directly to metas participating in this forum and are not allowed in public threads. Reported case will be carefully investigated and general report will be published here.]

[old_crone]

oh, my, talk about spam sites, these are good examples. Perhaps this should be discussed in a different forum?

[Guest just_browsing]

Hanson_Chop

"that are owned by the same person"

 

You seem to have missed {sent on to you priveately} from the same school <img src="/images/icons/smirk.gif" alt="" />

 

Deep waters, trucking categories

[theseeker]

I've already been looking into this, but if you have any information I might have missed, please feel free to send it to me by private message. <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" alt="" />

[Guest just_browsing]

but if you have any information I might have missed

Not being into mind reading, I cannot be sure that you have missed it, but I have sent you 5 sites run my the same operator just in case <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" alt="" />

[Guest]

Just Browsing and The Seeker,

 

Thanks for looking into this.

 

Yes, this category is being abused. I have also seen the one that was forwarded to me by private message by "Just Browsing". I tried to respond to your private message, but I received an error when I tried.

 

I will try again, and include my site that was deleted that I mentioned earlier. I will also include additional information concerning the suspected spam of the cat. I own a business that competes in this category, and I have a pretty good grasp of who owns what in this category.

[Guest]

I see that some clean up has been done in the previously mentioned category.

 

Does anyone know if I will be able to get the site that was removed back into the category?

 

The Seeker,

 

I sent as much info to you as I had (private message) on all of this, and even gave you links to review my site that was removed. Have you had an opportunity to review, and do you have any further questions of me?

[Guest just_browsing]

I see that some clean up has been done in the previously mentioned category.

Hanson_Chop, you are a hard man to please, I note that the editor and 25% of the category have gone since you first posted - more than a minor clean up <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" alt="" />

[theseeker]

Another editor has actually been handling most of cleaning up that category. I will contact that editor and then send you a private message about the results.

[Guest]

The Seeker, and Just Browsing.....

 

Once again, my hat is off to all of the volunteer editors and members of this message board for taking time to address concerns. <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" alt="" />

 

Thank you all, and I will continue to monitor the category for additional abuse. If I can not be re-instated as editor of the category, maybe I can help this way. <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" alt="" />

[Guest]

Once again, we have been targeted for removal by the new editor of the category.

 

Every person that applies as editor of this category http://dmoz.org/Business/Transportation_and_Logistics/Trucking/Employment/ is there to list his or her site. Our position on the internet, and our ability to compete at the top level makes us a target for each editor that signs up to this category.

[donaldb]

I'm not sure I understand what you're saying. I still see one of your sites listed. The other mirror site contains identical content, so there really isn't any reason to list it, is there?

[Guest]

donaldb,

 

Good question. <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" alt="" />

 

A quick glance at the two sites might lead you to believe that they contain the same content, but a closer examination will reveal that the information contained is very different. One site is for company drivers. The other site is for owner operators.

 

There are great differences in the types of jobs, and the types of requirements that employers put on the two groups.

 

A company driver could work for company "X" with only 6 months of OTR (over the road) experience, while an owner operator might need to have 24 months OTR experience to work for company "X".

 

Benefits, training, types of runs, endorsements, all of these things differ for company drivers versus owner operators.

 

Company drivers drive company owned trucks while owner operators have purchased their own peterbilt, freightliner, volvo, etc... and have leased themselves on with a company and work as a small company that subcontracts their truck to company "X".

 

Crete Carriers only requires 12 months OTR experience for a company driver;

http://www.classadrivers.com/companyprofile.php?cvar=45

 

while they require 24 months OTR for an owner operator;

http://www.owneroperatorjob.com/test.php?id=53

 

Please review the two profile sheets for Crete Carriers. One is for company drivers (ClassADrivers.com) and the other one is for owner operators (Owneroperatorjob.com)

I feel that you will see the difference in the information provided to the intended target audience.

 

I also hope the links do not get deleted as they are used to prove a point. If they are, please send me a message through the board, and I will provide those links to you for your review.

[Guest]

The "content" is different enough that they probably both should be listed (and yes there is some overlap), but I am very unhappy with the number of visual distractions (spam) you are including on the pages and in pop-ups and pop-unders. Your sites are on the border of being excluded for being difficult to navigate and for being more affiliate than content. Some editors may very well say you are over that border.

 

Keep in mind that you are adding to your own problems by making the two sites so darned similar.

[Guest]

kctipton,

 

 

 

but I am very unhappy with the number of visual distractions (spam)....

[broken External Image]:http://www.gamers-forums.com/smilies/contrib/tweetz/spam1.gif

 

I am not a fan of the pop unders either, but they are related to what we do which is help drivers and owner operators find employment. The ads have been purchased by our clients, and they do pay some of the bills. To say that I am running this site for the fun of it... well, that would just be a lie. It would be different if they (the pop unders)were for casino's, or for the x-10 camera, or for a home mortgage, but they are for trucking companies offering employment, which is why people come to my site in the first place. They are not spam. I did, however, cookie out the pop under so that it only loads once.

 

Your sites are on the border of being excluded for being difficult to navigate....

 

With respect to being difficult to navigate, I received this testimonial from one of our clients.....

 

Drivers that I have recruited have praised your site on its clear, concise, and easy process to submit applications.

 

This one came fron a driver...

 

I have filled out allot of applications on the internet and never got the response like what I got from yours. You have a kick _ _ _ web site going! Thank you again and I will spread the word.

 

For us, this has been our navigation theme for two years now. The content of the sites are different, but the navigation is similiar. The layout of the company profile sheets is similiar because we found that it works for our targeted audience.

 

...and for being more affiliate than content. Some editors may very well say you are over that border.

 

[broken External Image]:http://www.classadrivers.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rant.gif

 

In terms of affiliate versus content, how much raw content does a site like monster.com or hotjobs.com have? We are a recruiting site that provides a detailed employment sheet on every company we work with, job postings posted by the companies, online application, searchable job database, application database where the drivers can retrieve and modify their application, and a fairly active drivers community on our Ikonboard message board http://www.classadrivers.com/cgi-bin/ib3/ikonboard.cgi with over 1200 members. Plenty of content there.

 

To say that we are nothing more than links is an understatement of the quality and depth of our site. Banners do link outside of our site, but all profile sheets and the tools we have to help get drivers and companies together is contained within our site. We have done good work in the field of online driver recruiting, and have even implemented a thing called recruiterchat where the drivers can chat online with different company recruiters.

 

I am not trying to start a pissing match with you here as I know you do good work as a board moderator and I have seen some of your postings at JimWorld. Even if this reply does not sit well with you, it does not matter as my site has already been removed from the category. The fact of the matter is this;

 

1. This category has been spammed before.

2. I was removed by a category spammer before.

3. The category editor was removed and my site was re-listed.

4. Site remained until the addition of new editor, and was immediately removed again.

5. A note was attached to the site by another meta editor... Since you have already seen some of the results of your inquiry I won't go into everything. The classadrivers.com site has been relisted. I have also placed a note on it so that future editors will be more aware of the differences between the two sites.

 

The above note did not guarantee a permanent listing, but it is too much of a coincidence that 1 new editor of the category immediately equals removal of my site.