Games/Gambling/Directories has vanished?

[Guest]

Just earlier today there was content in it. Now, it doesn't even exist.

Try searching for: Chip7, Vobis or Loja 21. Could anyone give me an explanation?

[apeuro]

Re: A whole directory vanished?

 

I think this is the category you're looking for: World/Português/Regional/Portugal/Negócios_e_Economia/Compras/Informática.

[Guest]

Re: A whole directory vanished?

 

Now I feel silly.

I saw the page, later on forgot the complete location, searched it, found it but the result was missing...

Nevertheless it's weird.

 

Thanks for your reply.

(moral: think & post, don't post & think)

[Guest]

Re: A whole directory vanished?

 

The whole games>gambling>directories cat vanished.

 

What happened???

 

NAN

[apeuro]

Re: A whole directory vanished?

 

The Games/Gambling/Directories category has been removed from the directory by the consensus of meta editors.

[Guest]

Re: A whole directory vanished?

 

Very Explanatory!!!

 

Orca

[hutcheson]

Re: A whole directory vanished?

 

Well, actually, much of the rationale appeared first in, um, these forums. There were questions raised about what constituted a useful website, and anyone could see that the answers we tried to give here, didn't match what was plainly visible in the Directories category. It is a kind of roundabout way of contributing to the directory, but we thank you all. Outside review is good.

 

But as a general principle, the ODP doesn't expose its internal workings. It exposes the results. When the results are good, we could be creating them by polynomial-skip Torah Codes--for all anyone should care; when the results are not good, we need to fix the results--by whatever procedure works. (This case fit neatly into the "Not Good" category, so we're trying to figure out which variant of the twelve-tone system works best, and which canonical text of 'Enuma Elish' we should be using it on. If our experiment works, you'll see better results shortly.)

[Guest]

Re: A whole directory vanished?

 

A whole category with almost no content vanished. Not a big loss.

[Guest]

Re: A whole directory vanished?

 

hutcheson wrote: "There were questions raised about what constituted a useful website, and anyone could see that the answers we tried to give here, didn't match what was plainly visible in the Directories category"

 

Thank you so much ... /images/icons/smile.gif

 

Its depressing but the Guides category isnt much better! /images/icons/frown.gif

 

kctipton - Im sure the owners of the sites who have been deleted will see it as a major loss.

[arkoid]

Re: A whole directory vanished?

 

The Guides category is currently under revision, you should see some changes there soon. /images/icons/wink.gif

[Guest]

Re: A whole directory vanished?

 

gypsy, ODP doesn't exist for the submitters. It exists for the users, the searchers.

 

Those people who run gambling directories sites can easily buy listings with Overture and Looksmart with those 5- and 6-figure earnings per month I've heard about.

[Guest]

Re: A whole directory vanished?

 

"ODP doesn't exist for the submitters. It exists for the users, the searchers."

 

Exactly... They have the right to choose what to see or not, don't you think???

 

"Those people who run gambling directories sites can easily buy listings with Overture and Looksmart with those 5- and 6-figure earnings per month I've heard about."

 

It seems like people outside like to bet on sports, therefore, aren't they users or searchers because they like to gamble???

 

Don’t take this personal, because is not, but people have to change their business criteria, you guys need to be open minded… The money is outside as well as customers; just remember that.

 

ODP is a free Directory, probably DMOZ important on the web, nevertheless, needs traffic to survive.

 

NAN

[Guest]

Re: A whole directory vanished?

 

kctipton wrote: "It exists for the users, the searchers."

 

Thats exactly right, but editors dont realize this!

 

Most have attitudes and enjoy playing god ... who are they to tell end users what they should or will find useful? Let these end users decide whether or not a site is useful for themselves.

 

Its obvious from the sites that were listed in the Directories category and the ones listed in the Guides category (let alone other cats in the entire directory) that many editors are not qualified enough to index sites that the greater percentage of end users will find useful.

 

If this directory is truly for the end users then let them decide what they want to see - dont tell them "hey this is what were giving you, if you dont like it tough!"

 

Sites in the Guides category are no different that those that were in the Directories category - why havent they been removed yet? I think prior to making drastic changes in the gambling cats and in other places in the directory - editors and staff need(ed) to make huge changes in their public relation practices.

[Guest]

Re: A whole directory vanished?

 

Absolutely Agree!!!

 

NAN

[hutcheson]

Re: A whole directory vanished?

 

>>I think prior to making drastic changes in the gambling cats and in other places in the directory - editors and staff need(ed) to make huge changes in their public relation practices.

 

I think you'll find that editors often have a more expansive vision than you're assuming. Deleting one spam-filled category that had proven useless for our audience is not "drastic": we've ALWAYS got MUCH bigger improvements than that under discussion!

 

And I strongly suspect that the agreement between Netscape and the editors may have relinquished to Netscape insufficient control over editors' speech to implement the sort of "Public Relations Practice" you envisage. Even this forum is a strictly volunteer project.

 

Quality issues like the Guides and Directories categories really do take a high priority -- even above "building a comprehensive directory," much less "listing submitted sites promptly," and FAR above "making changes in public relations practices." But there's hardly anybody in here but us volunteers, so hardly anything you don't do gets done as quickly as you could want it to.

[apeuro]

Re: A whole directory vanished?

 

Editors make decisions based on our interpretation of what users want. Sometimes we're right, sometimes we're wrong. Frankly it's irrelevant.

 

No one is putting a gun to the head of John Q Public and forcing them to use the directory. Period. If users can't find what they want, they'll turn to an engine that will deliver. That is the way Adam Smith's "invisible hand" works.

[Guest]

Re: A whole directory vanished?

 

apeuro wrote: "Frankly it's irrelevant .... No one is putting a gun to the head of John Q Public and forcing them to use the directory. Period."

 

Ive heard more times than I care to mention "this is our directory - we will do what we want!"

 

This is the exact godly attitude I was speaking about. It’s this editor mind-set that can hurt public relations and jeopardize the directory as a whole! Maybe Gerald Levin, the CEO of AOL Time Warner would like to be notified about these undesirable relations and other recent related/unrelated events. I'm absolutely positive he wouldn’t agree or side with your statements.

 

Wise up - editors need to understand that they are representatives of the directory and that anything they do or say can affect the directory as a whole. Sure the directory states that editors do not speak for the directory, but when numerous editors conduct themselves in similar manners that protection clause is rendered useless.

 

Have a wonderful day

[yklaw]

Re: A whole directory vanished?

 

A couple of observations:

 

We do make choices like this. I would trust the metas' judgement on this. After all, if most of the sites in the directory, as observed both in this thread and in other threads here do not conform to the guidelines, and that there are few/none that do, why we need such a category is not known to me.

 

To make a good directory, remember we must make sensible choices. Doing it based on individuals' personal vested interests is not exactly the right way. I'd re-read kctipton's commentary above. Short, and to the point.

 

Such things have been discussed adequately, and remember, how DMOZ runs itself is its own business - no-one elses. The results of the work are open, but the processes leading to the results is our business.

[arkoid]

Re: A whole directory vanished?

 

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr><p>kctipton wrote: "It exists for the users, the searchers."

 

Thats exactly right, but editors dont realize this!<p><hr></blockquote>

 

We do, but you don't seem to realize that editors are ALSO web surfers/searchers so we can take decisions as to what we want to include and what we don't want. In fact, those decisions are called the "guidelines" and our job is to review all sites we receive with those guidelines in mind. But with more than 300,000 categories and about 8,000 active editors, it can take some time before we spot things that need to be changed.

 

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr><p>Most have attitudes and enjoy playing god ... who are they to tell end users what they should or will find useful? Let these end users decide whether or not a site is useful for themselves. <p><hr></blockquote>

 

Well, like I just said, DMOZ editors are Internet users/searchers too and I don't know of any search engine or directory that has this directive to "accept every submissions" as part of their algo or guidelines. Search engines have their spam filters and directories have their editors with guidelines to follow. There's no gods involved but feel free to apply as an editor if you think you can become a God by doing that... /images/icons/wink.gif

 

Regarding the Games/Gambling/Guides category. I said in my previous post that this category is currently under review. There were 99 sites in it 2 days ago, now there's 88 sites left and this number will continue to go down in the next days. We cannot just delete the whole category because there's some good sites in there that deserve to be listed (unlike the Directories category). Please be patient, we are all volunteers with real lives too! /images/icons/wink.gif

[Guest]

Re: A whole directory vanished?

 

yklaw wrote: "We do make choices like this. I would trust the metas' judgement on this. After all, if most of the sites in the directory, as observed both in this thread and in other threads here do not conform to the guidelines, and that there are few/none that do, why we need such a category is not known to me .... To make a good directory, remember we must make sensible choices."

 

Think about what you just said and then ask yourself who added all those sites in the first place? LMAO

 

Your theory sounds great and I agree to an extent - but as I stated before some editors are obviously not qualified. They are the ones that added those sites not john q public, and many of the sites were added by metas! So whats that tell you?

 

As for the Guides category being reviewed - I'm sure there are sites that deserve to be listed - just as there were sites that deserved being listed in the directories category!

 

Oh and add another instance of that godly attitude I spoke about. Ohhh boy - good luck.

 

Take care

[lissa]

Re: A whole directory vanished?

 

Just as the internet grows and changes with time, the directory grows and changes and so do the guidelines, standards and practices used by the ODP community. These guidelines, standards and practices are continuously evolving with the input of editors in general and the final shape/decisions are made with the approval of the meta team.

 

While the category and sites in question may have been acceptable at one point, by the current standards and a specific decision regarding this category, they are no longer acceptable.

 

I realize that you disagree with the decision presented here, but brushing it off with statements about editors playing God indicates that you truly do not understand how the community works. We are a self-regulating community of editors with a defined goal. Within the framework that was initially set in place, there has been a lot of refinement of details of what we do and how we do it. The meta team has been given responsibility for oversight and final decision making within the community. The metas ARE the top-level decision making group. We are not a business being run by a CEO. Understanding this helps greatly in understanding why things work the way they do.

[arkoid]

Re: A whole directory vanished?

 

How do you know those crappy sites you're talking about have been added by editors without being changed after they were added? Ever heard of bait&switch? Apparently not...

 

Also, you have to consider that guidelines are changing with time and what was an acceptable site in the past might be rejected today and that's exactly what happened with the Directories and Guides category. New gambling guidelines are coming out soon and we're already in the process of enforcing them, that's why the Directories category has been deleted and that the Guides category is being reviewed.

 

As for that "godly attitude" thing... well, that joke was funny at the beginning but now it's getting a bit overused, thanks for the laugh though.

 

[edited : oops, apparently lissa posted while I was typing my message and we're basically saying the same things.]

[hutcheson]

Re: A whole directory vanished?

 

I'm not exactly clear on how the editors are, in your theology, "playing God." Is it by making mistakes? (but on my home planet, they say, "to err is human...") Or is it by correcting mistakes, and thus repudiating the notion of editor infallibility? (in my religion, God is infallible.) Is it by talking to mere mortals? (the bit about "talking only to Lowells and Cabots" was never strictly accurate--it was more the other way around. The L&C's didn't listen anyway.)

 

Ah, I have it: I'll, um, forgive this your blasphemy, and even add a friendly tip: "Don't be talking like that about editors anywhere near a cold front. Remember, the cumulo-nimbus warning is traditional but (strictly speaking) unnecessary."

[Guest kujanomiko]

Re: A whole directory vanished?

 

How many users, honestly, would want to surf nothing but a listing of affiliate links, popups ads, other ads, and a few links to a few gambling sites?

[Guest]

Re: A whole directory vanished?

 

What do I mean when I say godly attitudes?

 

Well I was referring to the omnipotent characteristics of a god … Omnipotent: one having unlimited power or authority, An odp meta editor. heh

 

arkoid wrote: Ever heard of bait & switch?

 

I fully understand what this is and know it happens all the time. However it hasnt happened to over 200 sites in a category you maintain. There are resources readily available that can prove this has not been the case.

 

I'm sorry for being so upset and if I have offended anyone please accept my apology. I know that the majority of editors and metas have a high level of integrity. On the other hand I know how much is to be made and can surmise how certain individuals greed would allow them to abuse their position of authority.

 

It is my hope that a knowledgeable person could see through the conflicting viewpoints presented by certain individuals that seem to change from one minute to the next. The evidence is quickly vanishing from the directory. I’d hope that the task at hand hasn’t been left to those that have put us all in this position! Of course once the quantity of sites have been reduced – any remaining evidence will surely stick out like a sore thumb.

 

I look forward to a better directory ...